Media Stories on the Sioux Name

[Vegas_Sioux]

From the Crookston Times

http://crookstontimes.com/articles/2006/11...nion/7opin1.txt

[Diggler]

From the Crookston Times

http://crookstontimes.com/articles/2006/11...nion/7opin1.txt

So since people are stupid, UND shouldn't try clearing their name. Ummm ok.

[PCM]

From the Crookston Times

http://crookstontimes.com/articles/2006/11...nion/7opin1.txt

The Crookston Times says:

Whether UND wins in the end or loses, this is a public relations nightmare.

Here's the mistake that many in the media and the activists make. They assume that this issue creates nothing but negative PR for UND. They are wrong. Most sports fans can't stand the NCAA and applaud UND for standing up to it. Most people can't stand political correctness and admire UND for fighting it. Most Americans love it when the underdog takes on the heavy favorite and wins. The fact that both liberals and conservatives can find common ground to support UND on the issue demonstrates this.

The mistake that name-change activists, the media and academia make is believing that the average American thinks like them and believes what they believe. They are wrong.

[bincitysioux]

Link to The Star Tribune.

http://www.startribune.com/191/story/806092.html

Archie Fool Bear for President!

[GeauxSioux]

Sitting Bull College president says nickname hurts partnership

"If we have other people coming offering the same thing as you, I'm going to choose them," Vermillion said she told the UND administrators, "and it's because of the 'Fighting Sioux.'"

Vermillion completed a doctorate from UND in 2005 before becoming president of Sitting Bull College. The tribal council on the Standing Rock reservation has debated the UND nickname, with one official writing a letter supporting it while another opposed it.

Sure it's okay if she can go to UND and get her doctorate, but now she chooses to partner with other schools, because of the Fighting Sioux name.

[The Sicatoka]

Boyd said he and Jeanotte visited administrators from five tribal colleges in October and Vermillion was the only tribal college president who said she planned to limit partnerships with UND because of the nickname issue.

Don't you love how the story is the one of the five and not the four of the five?

Go Cavalry.

[PCM]

"If we have other people coming offering the same thing as you, I'm going to choose them," Vermillion said she told the UND administrators, "and it's because of the 'Fighting Sioux.'"

I wonder how many universities come to Sitting Bull College offering "the same thing" as UND? Proabably all those that have the same or more Indian-related programs as UND.

I've known for nearly five years that Sitting Bull College wasn't happy with UND's nickname. Just consider who served as the college's president for many years. Now it's suddenly newsworthy. I wonder why?

[GeauxSioux]

Just consider who served as the college's president for many years. Now it's suddenly newsworthy. I wonder why?

I learn something new every day. As you say, why is it now newsworthy??

[GeauxSioux]

UND: UND Indian Association head resigns over nickname

The president of the UND Indian Association resigned Monday, telling board members he feels the organization is uncomfortable that he does not oppose UND's use of the

[PCM]

UND: UND Indian Association head resigns over nickname

Rainbow said he discussed the issue often with Peltier, but reached a different conclusion.

[ScottM]

Umm...didn't he just contradict himself? He's saying that racism existed where he came from independent of the logo, but he still blames the logo, even though he admits that racism will still be around after the Fighting Sioux nickname and logo are gone.

And if they can figure out how to "connect" the UND name/logo to poverty, crime, alcoholism, unemployment, etc. on the reservations, you can be sure they'll trot that line of "logic" out too.

Maybe Dr. Stephanie can make that her next "research" project.

[Csonked Out]

And if they can figure out how to "connect" the UND name/logo to poverty, crime, alcoholism, unemployment, etc. on the reservations, you can be sure they'll trot that line of "logic" out too.

Maybe Dr. Stephanie can make that her next "research" project.

I used to be engaged to someone who was native american, so i was around when her family was discussing these sort of things. I was almost shocked when i heard them talkin, because they were just rippin on the reservations in North Dakota because of a lot of the reasons you listed above. Let me remind you they were 100% indian as well. I sat down with her father and had a talk with him, he was sayin how he gets so annoyed about the racism card they keep throwing when there are so many other things to worry about. The main one he pointed out that hasn't been discussed yet is the suicide rate, it is much much higher on the reservations, and can be directly tied to alcoholism, poverty, and unemployment, which can lead to crime.

The big reason why I don't feel bad the nickname is, each Native American gets $600 a month just for being Native american, heck if your 1/6th native american you get that much. This gets a lot of people bent out of shape about things like this. I understand the history what happend over 100 years ago, and there is nothing we can really do about it. The reservation and tribal college leaders need to focus on the problem and stop making excuses, because i am wondering what they would do if they didn't have the nickname issue to care about? Focus on the alcohol problem, get more jobs i know the $1.8 million contract the sioux got from the government for military materials to build which is great. Fix poverty and crime, and that will lower the suicide rate for the young people on the reservations. UND is doing its part by offering so many American Indian programs and "FREE COLLEGE", so TRIBAL LEADERS i am calling you out, do something to fix the problem on your end, cause if this keeps going on people like me who are finishin college in 4 weeks and are gonna pay of $30,000 in student loans are gonna get even more worked up about it because nothin is enough. Don't fix what isn't broken here at UND, fix whats broken on the reservations, they need you a lot more!

[The Sicatoka]

[undsportsfan]

The nickname is dehumanizing. Plain and simple.

From what I have been told by many military too, but it definitely can be wrong, but they use similar tactics in warfare. They dehumanize a group with nicknames so it's easier to attack them.

As for the story about the resignation. There's DEFINITELY more to this story than led on.

There's a lot of hurt by some of the behavior by certain people within the community. I think that with the resignation, that the UNDIA can concentrate now on their agenda, which does not have anything to do with the nickname.

[undsportsfan]

I used to be engaged to someone who was native american, so i was around when her family was discussing these sort of things. I was almost shocked when i heard them talkin, because they were just rippin on the reservations in North Dakota because of a lot of the reasons you listed above. Let me remind you they were 100% indian as well. I sat down with her father and had a talk with him, he was sayin how he gets so annoyed about the racism card they keep throwing when there are so many other things to worry about. The main one he pointed out that hasn't been discussed yet is the suicide rate, it is much much higher on the reservations, and can be directly tied to alcoholism, poverty, and unemployment, which can lead to crime.

The big reason why I don't feel bad the nickname is, each Native American gets $600 a month just for being Native american, heck if your 1/6th native american you get that much. This gets a lot of people bent out of shape about things like this. I understand the history what happend over 100 years ago, and there is nothing we can really do about it. The reservation and tribal college leaders need to focus on the problem and stop making excuses, because i am wondering what they would do if they didn't have the nickname issue to care about? Focus on the alcohol problem, get more jobs i know the $1.8 million contract the sioux got from the government for military materials to build which is great. Fix poverty and crime, and that will lower the suicide rate for the young people on the reservations. UND is doing its part by offering so many American Indian programs and "FREE COLLEGE", so TRIBAL LEADERS i am calling you out, do something to fix the problem on your end, cause if this keeps going on people like me who are finishin college in 4 weeks and are gonna pay of $30,000 in student loans are gonna get even more worked up about it because nothin is enough. Don't fix what isn't broken here at UND, fix whats broken on the reservations, they need you a lot more!

I believe some people just multi task. They work on more than just the nickname but other injustices too. And why are we talking about BQ (blood quantum)? BQ is a ridiculous and a totally different debate. Necessary but unnecessary. Also every tribe is different. Your former fiance's father can only speak for his own tribe and not all.

Poverty, education, alcoholism, etc... those are problems everywhere. Not just on reservations. I still am wondering where this free college and monthly checks are coming from. My mailbox is empty, and pocket book is too.

And what's broken is that attitude.

I do agree some people play that racism card far too much sometimes. But racism does happen. Just not as often as some people want to claim it is.

*my apologies, for this post. I was/am very insulted*

[PCM]

There's DEFINITELY more to this story than led on.

There almost always is.

[PCM]

The nickname is dehumanizing. Plain and simple.

How so?

[Csonked Out]

I'm sorry if you were insulted UND sports fan, maybe if i clarify you'll understand more of where i am coming from. First of all her father is 100% sioux, and when i was talking about the reservation stuff, those were words coming from his mouth, i was just restating them to make a point.

I however will not apologize for how i feel about the money. Did I have it easier than some people that grew up on a reservation, most likely, but does that make it wrong for me to feel bothered when i have experienced many people including my ex-fiances friends waste that money every month on drugs and alcohol and do nothing with there lives? I am by no means insinuating the entire tribe is like that at all, I also know many sioux who go to college, work hard, and try to make something with there lives. But the reality is, when I see a few people get free handouts every month, throw it away for no reason, and then complain it makes me mad and for that i will not apologize. As to the nickname I dont hate it or love it, to me its a school nickname plain and simple, I just want to change in on UND's terms and not the NCAA.

Everyone has personal experiences that effect there outlook on things. In a perfect world this stuff wouldn't happen, in the real world compromises must be made. What those compromises are I dont know, will a change of the nickname improve conditions I dont know.

Also I assumed all tribes got free checks, it may be just certain ones. I know many people who get $600 a month and some of these people are only 1/6th native american. I assumed wrong, and if i offended you cause of that I apologize. Also the free college comes in forms of many grants, scholarship funds specifically for tribes, and many other sources. It is not a direct free ride but often times is greatly discounted.

As well, percentage wise we know the rates are higher, and that is something that I would like to see changed, because i saw to many young people in the time i was around her commit suicide not to be taken aback by it. I feel it is a serious problem, unfortunately its one that is also hard to tackle because of the seriousness of the nature

[GeauxSioux]

The nickname is dehumanizing. Plain and simple.

From what I have been told by many military too, but it definitely can be wrong, but they use similar tactics in warfare. They dehumanize a group with nicknames so it's easier to attack them.

As for the story about the resignation. There's DEFINITELY more to this story than led on.

There's a lot of hurt by some of the behavior by certain people within the community. I think that with the resignation, that the UNDIA can concentrate now on their agenda, which does not have anything to do with the nickname.

If the UNDIA'a agenda has nothing to do with the logo/name issue, why would they have an official vote to oppose the Sioux nickname? I would call that an agenda

If Mr. Peltier was elected president when his opinion of the issue was known, why shouldn't he able to voice that same opinion publicly?

I would like to hear an answer to PCM's question regarding why the nickname is dehumanizing. As I posed once previously, if UND was known as the Fighting Icelanders and had a picture of my grandfather as the logo, I would be proud.

Why not turn the name issue around and be proud of what it stands for? Bennet Brien did a wonderful job with the logo and gave it meaning and strength. Why not be proud instead of dehumanized?

[Ray77]

I believe some people just multi task. They work on more than just the nickname but other injustices too. And why are we talking about BQ (blood quantum)? BQ is a ridiculous and a totally different debate. Necessary but unnecessary. Also every tribe is different. Your former fiance's father can only speak for his own tribe and not all.

Poverty, education, alcoholism, etc... those are problems everywhere. Not just on reservations. I still am wondering where this free college and monthly checks are coming from. My mailbox is empty, and pocket book is too.

And what's broken is that attitude.

I do agree some people play that racism card far too much sometimes. But racism does happen. Just not as often as some people want to claim it is.

*my apologies, for this post. I was/am very insulted*

I will start by saying that I have not done an immense amount of research on this, however I did a quick search on the University of North Dakota website for "Native American Tuition" and came up with many, many results that talked about full or partial tuition waivers for Native Amercan students for the school of medicine, school of law, etc. Now, you may be right that not 100% of the Native Americans that attend UND get 100% of their tuition paid for. I don't want to put words in people's mouths, but what I think he was referring to is that he did not get full or partial tuition waivers for being a "white student" at UND. So, your inbox may not be full of examples that people on this site have emailed you, but you cannot argue that Native Americans do get partial or full tuition waivers for being Native American. If you did not take advantage of that, then that is your prerogative.

That being said, I think others (and I'll add myself to the list) have said that they respect your views and that you can come on here and say that you are against the nickname. However, you do realize that the MAJORITY does not oppose the nickname? And when I say majority, I'm not referring to the majority of non-Native Americans that are involved with this issue, but I am also including Native Americans.

We all have our stories/reasons for why we are in favor or oppose the name. I can tell you this, and you can take it for what it's worth...I grew up with season tickets watching the Sioux hockey team from the age of 3. I have ALWAYS looked at UND and the Sioux name as being honorable and something to be proud of. I have NEVER once seen anything that would lead me to believe otherwise. Would a university name itself after something they thought was derogatory or "not-honorable"? UND is the "Fighting Sioux" because it shows strength and in my opinion, to honor the Sioux name/tribe/culture, etc.

Now, you can write off my thoughts/views as "someone who is not Native American and doesn't really 'know' the issues", but I feel that I'm the exact person who shows that the Sioux name is not derogatory or a bad thing. I am not Native American, and I grew up watching the Sioux and being taught that to be a "Fighting Sioux" is an honor and a priveledge - and I teach the same to my nephews and will eventually my kids. I would have given my left *** to play hockey for the Sioux, and to wear that jersey, and call myself a "Fighting Sioux".

Sorry if this got long, but those are my 2 cents.

[ScottM]

*my apologies, for this post. I was/am very insulted*

"Life's tough, wear a f***ing helmet." -Denis Leary

[jloos]

The nickname is dehumanizing. Plain and simple.

From what I have been told by many military too, but it definitely can be wrong, but they use similar tactics in warfare. They dehumanize a group with nicknames so it's easier to attack them.

How are soldiers using derogatory terms about their enemy related to the University of North Dakota using the name "Sioux"? I would agree with this analogy if UND used the name "savages", or "whops".

The majority of those opposing the Sioux name are not Native. I do not understand why discussions about Native students are relevant.

Native people getting money from the government for being Native is 100% false. Native students do not get automatic tuition waivers, nor do they get any money from the government. Some tribes do give their enrolled members a monthly payment. However, these are the vast minority of tribes (only those with very profitable casinos or land holdings). None of the tribes in ND are in this minority.

I will agree there are many opportunities for minority students to receive scholorships, waivers ect... than there are available to white students. I also understand the reasoning for this. Is it right? In some cases it probably is - i.e. Native medicine program. In other cases it is probably not. Generalizing an entire race is never a good thing.

[Sioux-cia]

1. Your former fiance's father can only speak for his own tribe and not all.

2. Poverty, education, alcoholism, etc... those are problems everywhere. Not just on reservations. I still am wondering where this free college and monthly checks are coming from. My mailbox is empty, and pocket book is too.

3.I do agree some people play that racism card far too much sometimes. But racism does happen. Just not as often as some people want to claim it is.

4. The nickname is dehumanizing.

5. *my apologies, for this post. I was/am very insulted*

Because this gentleman spoke about what happens in his tribe does not invalidate the facts that he speaks. YOU don't speak for your entire tribe, you don't speak for all Natives. Are your opinions more valid than his? No, they are not.

I did do research on poverty, education, alchoholism, etc. on Indian reservations. And, they do occur in higher percentages than they do 'off the reservation'. I'm currently working on a reservation and know first hand the research did not lie. I did not limit my research to one tribe. The problems, sadly, are wide spread in the majority of U.S. Indian tribes and reservations.

The Fighting Sioux name and logo did not create racism, it does not enable racism, and if they did not exist it would make no difference to those who are racists. No one who wears the Fighting Sioux name and logo does so because they are a racist. It's not an opportunity to say 'Hey everyone look at my percious, respected and honored jersey, I hate what it represents!' The opposing fans who yell derogratory remarks at our teams are not referring to Sioux Indians just as they do not refer to real Warriors, Seminoles, Illini, Aztecs, Irish, etc. THEY ARE HURLING INSULTS AT THEIR ATHLETIC RIVALS!!! If the Sioux name and logo were not around it would not 'unmake' a racist. A racist isn't someone who saw a name and logo and decided to hate that group of people. I don't have time to define racist in this venue, maybe later.

Please, how are the name and loge dehumanizing?

You were insulted? Name change proponents routinely insult name and logo supporters, Native American and not, on a routine basis. Welcome to the 'I've been insulted club', tee shirt available upon request following a large contribution to the other insulted club members.

[PCM]

The nickname is dehumanizing. Plain and simple.

From what I have been told by many military too, but it definitely can be wrong, but they use similar tactics in warfare. They dehumanize a group with nicknames so it's easier to attack them.

So what you're saying is that those of us who are Protestants of Irish descent should worry about being attacked by Catholics?

[Goon]

I do agree some people play that racism card far too much sometimes. But racism does happen. Just not as often as some people want to claim it is.

*my apologies, for this post. I was/am very insulted*

What really upsets me is people are trying to invent racism at UND and no body has presented anything in the way of proof, (if there is I have yet to see any) heck the ACLU, not a conservative organization by any stretch of the imagination found nothing when it visited UND, so are we to say they are full of crap? When Mr. Fool Bear came here (as per the Kersten article from the Star Tribune) there was again no evidence that UND was not this racist place "everyone" was claiming it was. Fool Bear said he was sold a bill of good. Even if you look at the case UND versus NCAA all these liberal faculty can say is they have is anecdotal evidence, its not evidence. For the lawsuit, they wheel out tee shirts that are 16 years old from our opponents. That