ESPN Sportcenter 50 states in 50 days

[MafiaMan]

James Madison.

What does this have to do with the ESPN poll?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good for you. Ah yes, that football powerhouse James Madison University. Located where?

It has nothing to do with ESPN's poll. It has everything to do with NDSU's obsession that Division I-AA football is the biggest gig in the state, which it is not.

[Bison Dan]

Good for you. Ah yes, that football powerhouse James Madison University. Located where?

It has nothing to do with ESPN's poll. It has everything to do with NDSU's obsession that Division I-AA football is the biggest gig in the state, which it is not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not a obsession just a fact. Actually Bison FB is the biggest whether dii or DI-AA.

[MafiaMan]

Not a obsession just a fact. Actually Bison FB is the biggest whether dii or DI-AA.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Surely, you jest.

[southpaw]

Not a obsession just a fact.  Actually Bison FB is the biggest whether dii or DI-AA.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's pretty hilarious. How many people showed up for each Bison football game? Compare that with average attendance for Sioux games.

Of course the statistics would be skewed. I hear home playoff games brings more people. How has bison football done recently with attendance at home playoff games?

[TheBisonator]

[Let'sGoHawks!]

That's a good question. The Bison averaged 13,269 per game last year at the Fargodome, while the Sioux averaged 9,389 at the tin shed. Making the Bison average 3,880 more than the Sioux per game.

Thank you for playing, but we have some nice parting gifts for you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fargo Moorhead is roughly double the population of GF. You would expect more fans than 13,000 show up to watch the self proclaimed "top program in the state" play football against nobodies in D1-AA in a made up conference in the brick airplane hangar, wouldn't you now? Good luck in your made up conference this year.

[Let'sGoHawks!]

I forgot, do you actually consider Bison football to be in the same galaxy as Sioux hockey? If so, you've been sniffing too much manure down there at Ag. U.

[MafiaMan]

[TheBisonator]

[MafiaMan]

[jimdahl]

Fargo-Moorhead is like a small Twin Cities

OK, I had nothing to add to the Fargo v. G.F. sniping, but this is just delusional. The real numbers, since your made up numbers were (stunningly) skewed in favor of your point, 2003 MSA population (1000s):

Grand Forks 93

Fargo 179

Minneapolis 3084

Fargo is a small Minneapolis in the same way Crookston is a small Fargo

In the meantime, Fargo offers a LOT more than GF, including a symphony orchestra, more movie theatres, live theatre, minor league baseball, more shopping choices, etc

G.F. has a symphony orchestra, as many per capita movie screens as Fargo, and live theater; but you've got them on minor league baseball (that explains 3300 people when a baseball game overlaps college sports, which happens... uh...). As Bison fans continually grouse about (all together now: but the Alerus operated in the red last year!), the Alerus and REA have also shifted quite a bit of national entertainment from the FargoDome to G.F. No doubt Fargo has more of everything, given the bigger population, but it's not night and day like Fargo - Minneapolis.

Regardless, your claim that Fargoans are too busy shopping and watching movies to go to Bison FB games does NOT bolster your point that Bison FB is the "biggest gig in the state".

I'm 100% positive that we'll average more than 16,000 this year, and we'll get two, possibly three sellouts.

Noted -- that wouldn't have been my guess, but such a revenue boon would alleviate almost all of my economic concerns with NDSU's reclassification, so I'll definitely check back in November.

I'm obviously a big fan of the Red River Valley, but fact is, Fargo and G.F. are both tiny cities in the middle-of-nowhere. The people who live in both generally know that, love that, and prefer that to everything else that comes with the trappings of a true big city; further, Fargo is undoubtedly the king of the tiny cities in the middle-of-nowhere North Dakota, but G.F. and Fargo are a lot more like each other than anything in N.D. is like Minneapolis.

[teamsioux]

Just an observation....Fargoans and NDSU fans have so much more to do than UND'ers/GF'ers, but yet they seem to spend a lot of time on the internet trying to convince us and themselves that the big move is all happy, happy, joy, joy!

[CoteauRinkRat]

With all due respect, there's a LOT more things to do for entertainment in Fargo-Moorhead than in Grand Forks. Fargo-Moorhead's urban area has almost 165,000 people, and the metro has almost 200,000. Compare that with what, 60,000 for GF/EGF (including the Air Force base, and I'm being generous)?? What else can you do in the winter in GF besides go to a sue hockey game?? In the meantime, Fargo offers a LOT more than GF, including a symphony orchestra, more movie theatres, live theatre, minor league baseball, more shopping choices, etc. Sure, people have the choice of going to Bison football games here, but they also have the choice of doing a lot more things unlike your little economically depressed town. You guys are lucky that you even have a top-ranked hockey team. What else could you do in January besides get drunk if you didn't have your hockey team?? I remember what someone told me about what one of their former professors said about Fargo and Grand Forks: Fargo-Moorhead is like a small Twin Cities, and Grand Forks is like a big Grafton.

And about the football attendance, give us some time. I'm 100% positive that we'll average more than 16,000 this year, and we'll get two, possibly three sellouts. We host Cal-Davis, SDSU (Our NEW rival) and Northern Colorado, as well as Nicholls State (who is a contender in I-AA) and Weber State, while a cellar-dweller in the Big Sky, should still attract at least 13,000.

So you have to put this into perspective. Our average attendance has been rising every year since 2002, and will continue to do so. And remember that there's a LOT more to do in F-M than GF.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This makes me laugh out loud. I'm not sure what attacking the town of Grand Forks has to do with attendance figures at football and hockey games. Congratulations, there is more to do in FM than GF, you win. Do you feel better? I would think that a metro area of your size would have more things to offer, but thankfully you pointed out to everyone on this board that very point.

[MafiaMan]

On a completely unrelated note...I was just listening to Blue Oyster Cult on 92KQRS. I'm tellin' ya...I gotta feev-ah...and da only prescription...is more cowbell. PCM, can you hear me? Bring back the cowbell!

[Smoggy]

I gotta chime in on the Fargo-MSP thing.

I'll be living in Bloomington this fall (looking at you MafiaMan). I just took two trips to the Cities in the past week and obviously road construction is the story. But here is what's strange. The 494 loop is finally being expanded due to traffic congestion and jams. Fargo just expanded I-29, yet I can't ever remember anyone complaining about traffic on the I-29. Fargo wants to be considered a big city so bad that they just had to have a wider interstate corrider. It sure would have been nice if the federal govt. could have spent that money where it was needed. Like I-15 from Cali to Vegas. Talk about traffic on a two-three lane interstate. It's always strange to come to a complete hault in the middle of a desert when there was no accident involved.

Did I hear correct that they are expanded I-29 farther north? The traffic delays due to construction are bad enough, but seems like there'll be a few more years of it.

[IowaBison]

I really don't like the my dad can beat up your dad thing going on.

The big difference between the two cities is GROWTH! Grand Forks was hit by the '95 BRAC, the '97 flood, and now the '05 BRAD. It has done very well considering these events, but unless something changes Fargo will be leaving GF in the dust.

This economic growth will have a marked effect on the Universities and their athletic departments.

Fargo wants to be considered a big city so bad that they just had to have a wider interstate corrider.  It sure would have been nice if the federal govt. could have spent that money where it was needed. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The interstate is being enlarged based on FORECASTED traffic demand. The NDDOT who is in charge of the job did the analysis and provided the required state match to receive federal funds. They are also currently widening 45th and planning on adding an exit on 9th Ave in West Fargo as well as considering adding an interchange (or two) on I-29 in South Fargo in the next five years.

Grand Forks would be seeing this if they hadn't been moving sideways for the last decade for the aforementioned reasons.

[PCM]

On a completely unrelated note...I was just listening to Blue Oyster Cult on 92KQRS.  I'm tellin' ya...I gotta feev-ah...and da only prescription...is more cowbell.  PCM, can you hear me?  Bring back the cowbell!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What are you talking about?

[MafiaMan]

[Smoggy]

[MafiaMan]

[airmail]

Most Fargo people don't seem to bother with the I-29.

[PCM]

Grand Forks would be seeing this if they hadn't been moving sideways for the last decade for the aforementioned reasons.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey, I said we shouldn't have a flood in '97. But did anyone listen to me? Nooooo. They went ahead and had one anyway.

And I sent an e-mail to the BRAC folks telling them that we'd grown really, really fond of our ICBMs and B-1s, and that they should just leave Grand Forks Air Force Base out of their plans. But once again, nobody listened to me.

A few months ago, I sent an e-mail to the Pentagon saying: "Hey! Rummie! Leave them tankers alone!"

Again, my advice appears to have fallen on deaf ears.

Seriously, when I read the comments from Bison fans like IowaBison, I have to wonder when they last visited Grand Forks. That it's still on the map after the 1997 flood but is also a vastly improved, vibrant and growing city is a true testament to the determination and hard work of community leaders and residents.

Grand Forks survived the flood. It survived the loss of the GFAFB bombers and missiles, and it will survive whatever BRAC throws at it next. Heck, we might even survive NDSU move to DI-AA football! An article in today's Herald gives me hope that the future of GFAFB might even be brighter as a result of the latest BRAC moves.

I look at UND today and see how much it's changed and grown since I arrived here in 1992 and I'm amazed. Every time I walk into Engelstad Arena I have to remind myself that, yes, this is in Grand Forks. The average Bison fan either won't admit or can't comprehend the amount of attention and prestige that the REA and Sioux hockey bring to UND and Grand Forks. There's absolutely is nothing like it in Fargo. DI-AA football will never, ever compare.

And speaking of football, I've attended nearly every playoff game the Sioux have hosted at the Alerus and they've been a blast. Remind me: When's the last time the Fargo Dome hosted a Bison playoff game?

Some day, when UND has lined up the financial resources, has the facilities in place and the right conference comes calling, the move to NCAA Division I might make perfect sense for UND. Until then, I'll enjoy everything that UND and Grand Forks has to offer, which is considerable given the size and location of the town.

Edited July 21, 2005 by PCM

[CoteauRinkRat]

And when will this demand happen?  10 years?  20?  Because at this point you are starting to have to make repairs, and hence wasting money.  It isn't needed today and I doubt it'll be needed in 5 years.  Most Fargo people don't seem to bother with the I-29.  It's used by those from Moorhead or traveling through.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

To take your argument a little further than, why does the federal govt. give any money to North Dakota for roads, since you make the point that they are not at crowded as other places?

I can see your argument, but it doesn't fly with me when comparing road and traffic conditions in North Dakota to other highly congested places across the country. Apples and oranges

[IowaBison]

[CoteauRinkRat]

Seriously, when I read the comments from Bison fans like IowaBison, I have to wonder when they last visited Grand Forks. That it's still on the map after the 1997 flood but is also a vastly improved, vibrant and growing city is a true testament to the determination and hard work of community leaders and residents.

I usually don't allow you to speak for me, but on this issue, I definitely will.

You hit the nail on the head PCM. Has Grand Forks grown like Fargo, not even close, but that doesn't mean this town hasn't really changed in the last decade. The flood obviously had a lot to do with that, but just take a drive down 32nd Ave. and see a whole new corridor of businesses, it is quite amazing.