Is UND Hockey Still the Underdog?

[MafiaMan]

This one made me laugh so hard I was almost crying:

[Fetch]

sorry but i would put the 16-19-2 record from 01/02 a bad season. besides that we are doing ok

That must be when the Ralph was new & now that we have Beer - All games & seasons seem better

I also have to add That M I N N E S O T A what ever you call it - is about as obnoxious as you can get

I'm done being nice & civil now

& what is up with this ? ? ?

North Dakota becoming a powerhouse hockey program that could no longer play the underdog card, and not a "Everything we hate about the U of M thread."

We have always been a Power House & we have always Hated the Gophers & underdog was a cartoon

[The Sicatoka]

Until non-hockey fan people from outside of the upper midwest can associate "North Dakota" with something other than "Mount Rushmore" North Dakota will be an underdog. It's that simple.

[MafiaMan]

Until non-hockey fan people from outside of the upper midwest can associate "North Dakota" with something other than "Mount Rushmore" North Dakota will be an underdog. It's that simple.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

LOL...now THAT'S funny. Here's a typical conversation I have had several times over the past 13 years with someone from Mpls/St Paul who hasn't been ever been outside of the city limits:

"So you're from North Dakota?"

"yep, grew up in Belfield."

"I've been to Mount Rushmore...nice place."

"Um...that's South Dakota."

"Oh. So what's in North Dakota?"

[southpaw]

I contribute Denver's Back-to-Back on "lucky goaltending."

Nothing more.

Like most UND fans, I can't stand Denver. What do they have...2 fans? 3?

I think being an elite team constitutes having a chance to win the title each year. With such a huge gap in Denver's successful teams and championships, I'd hardly call them elite.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you're excluding Denver from being a top team, then I think you have to seriously look at UMN too. They've "only" got 5 championships, other than back to back it was twenty some years in between titles. Just recently they've had the kind of dominant team that you think is going to win every year. Sure with Woog behind the bench they had better finishes than Denver, but they never won anything.

[MafiaMan]

If you're excluding Denver from being a top team, then I think you have to seriously look at UMN too. They've "only" got 5 championships, other than back to back it was twenty some years in between titles. Just recently they've had the kind of dominant team that you think is going to win every year. Sure with Woog behind the bench they had better finishes than Denver, but they never won anything.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OK, I'm going to agree with Gopher fans on this one...UND's 10 year gap between 1987 and 1997 was long enough, but we're half-way there with the 2000-2005 "drought." That being said, we could be BC and go 49 years between titles. I'd rather be UND or Minnesota. And even though Minnesota didn't win the big one under Woog, they were expected to contend far more often than the Sioux were from a big stretch starting in about 1991 and lasting until 1996.

[PCM]

"Oh.  So what's in North Dakota?"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And your answer is...?

[sprig]

And your answer is...?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not much concrete.

And, from October through December, lots of vehicles with MN and WI license plates, everywhere. Assume they are occupied by sotas and sconnies. Must be something here they like.

[MafiaMan]

[The Sicatoka]

[Fedorov]

First of all, the rink is "Sioux-size"...leading to all those chippy, over-achieving Sioux and Denver players to slow down the speed of teams like CC and Minnesota.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I made it this far in the thread before you lost all credibility. That is actually pretty far compared to most.

[Fedorov]

The Yankees have their own channel.

UND has their own channel.

UM does not have their own channel.

[bigmrg74]

I was hoping this thread would concentrate on the aspects of North Dakota becoming a powerhouse hockey program that could no longer play the underdog card, and not a "Everything we hate about the U of M thread."

So MafiaMan, I agree with some of your points...the spinning your head is old, big 10 football in the dome is horrible, etc...but perhaps the "Everything we hate about each other" arguments could be saved for another time?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You have much to learn about SiouxSports.com then don't ya young grasshopper??

[Cratter]

Usually

OK, trying to be funny, but in all actuality, it's kind of sad. Most of my "native Minnesota" friends couldn't even tell you the name of the capital city of North Dakota.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I always answer "Smart people and the finest hockey arena in the country."

[redwing77]

The Yankees have their own channel.

UND has their own channel. 

UM does not have their own channel. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Specifically speaking, you're right. Technically speaking, FSN is their own channel. After all, the slogan is "Where Minnesota fans come first."

And about that Minnesota chant, yeah, it's lame. However, believe it or not, North Dakota has its own version of that chant. Neither of which I want to hear much of to tell the truth.

[Fedorov]

Specifically speaking, you're right.  Technically speaking, FSN is their own channel. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Gophers simply have a contract with FSN North. It isn't their channel. The Yes network was created for the Yankees and FSSN was created for UND.

[iramurphy]

I wasn't demanding anything. I was simply asking a question. I thought it might be a nice topic during the boring summer months.

And as far as arrogance, well...I see that from every fan base...including North Dakota.

Here's my premise:

Elite, advantaged schools in WCHA: UND, Minnesota, Wisconsin

Disadvantaged: Everyone else.

Agree or disagree?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

UND's disadvantage is that we do not have the coorporate support the Gophers do. It won't change in the future because of the demographics and geography of the two schools. The Gophers have the advantage of the WCHA tourney scheduling both for location and for the timing of the games with the U of Mn getting the evening games thus increasing the crowds. UND and the other DI for hockey only programs do not get to share the profits from the NCAA tourney like the DI schools. I believe UND actually lost money going to the Frozen Four this year despite being the Runner-up. That is one of the considerations for going DI in other sports because it will likely bring in $$$ that we can't get otherwise.

The Sioux advantage is the school is a great place to go to college and UND fans are very loyal. The arena is second to none and the hockey program has been rated by many over the past 20 years as the top and /or one of the top programs in the country. The NHL scouts and coaches have very high regard for the UND program and that respect for the program transcends the last 3 coaches (Gino, Blais and Hakstol). The Alumni support has been tremendous over the years and thus we we are a power in college hockey, one of the elite and have been with the exception of the late 1960's and early 1970's (before the first Englestad arena was built).

All in all, even though I live in Minnesota, I will take my chances with the Sioux even-up.

[chandler23]

So, here's a summary of disadvantages that I have heard from Sioux fans on this post:

1. Small community

2. Lack of corporate support

3. TV Contract/FSN/etc.

4. Travel to Final Five

5. Lack of regionals at REA

6. Unshared profits of D1 Programs

These are just the top 6...there have been more on the thread but this basically sums it up.

So, with that...how specifically do these points negatively affect your team's performances year in and year out? To me it doesn't seem to affect the UND Hockey team at all...unless you are willing to argue that with these disadvantages lifted from the program/city/university, the team would be even better than it has been...which, recently, would basically mean winning the national championship every year.

[PCM]

I personally have never ever played the "us against the world" card. I'm sure all of the regulars on the board here will back me up when I say I have never once complained about any of the so-called advantages the Gophers have.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'll vouch for DaveK. He is a self-professed closet Gopher fan -- not that there's anything...

Wait! What am I saying?

[The Sicatoka]

People love the feel-good story of a little guy doing well. Like it or not, the State of North Dakota's stature makes it a de facto "little guy". Thus, rightly or wrongly, UND Hockey plays the role of "little guy" because of where the school is located.

David.

Goliath.

[mksioux]

So, here's a summary of disadvantages that I have heard from Sioux fans on this post:

1. Small community

2. Lack of corporate support

3. TV Contract/FSN/etc.

4. Travel to Final Five

5. Lack of regionals at REA

6. Unshared profits of D1 Programs

These are just the top 6...there have been more on the thread but this basically sums it up.

So, with that...how specifically do these points negatively affect your team's performances year in and year out? To me it doesn't seem to affect the UND Hockey team at all...unless you are willing to argue that with these disadvantages lifted from the program/city/university, the team would be even better than it has been...which, recently, would basically mean winning the national championship every year.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think #4 and #5 are pretty clear. Is UND disadvantaged because it never hosts the Final 5 or Frozen 4 and almost never gets a regional? If you are comparing them to a team that regularly gets those things, then yes, UND is disadvantaged. Having the road to the Frozen 4 going through your home every 2-3 years is a huge advantage. Not having that is a disadvantage, comparitively speaking.

With regard to the rest (particularly #1 and #3), I think I could make a decent argument that it puts UND at a recruiting disadvantage to Minnesota, but such an argument would be less tangible.

[Greyeagle]

I'm sure I could come up with 20 more reasons, but that's a good start.  With all due respect to GreyEagle, WPoS, and sagard...let the flaming begin!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But will you respect me in the morning?

I don't like UND but I certainly respect the program.

BTW, there is some neat stuff to do in NoDak. I couldn't go because of some work stuff but my wife & kids just spent a week following the Louis & Clark trail and going to Teddy Roosevelt NP. They had a great time.

[Upper Deck]

Yee hah! Gopher bashing! Being a Sioux fan stuck in Mpls, there are four things I dislike about the local college hockey program:

1) Dubay (although he does bring college hockey to light)

2) Wooger and Mozzsucko

3) Final 5 always in St. Paul with "no home ice advantage" and the 2pm screw over the play-in winner

4) Arrogance to the other small WCHA schools

Yada yada yada

I think Denver and CC should be considered "elite" schools. I think UND is still somewhat of an underdog, fighting location, smaller community and the lack of major TV braodcasts such as FSN.

Things in ND - pheasants, ducks, walleyes, Badlands/Medora, richest farming land in the world, minimal traffic jams (except Fargo . . .), great & true people and that girl (I think her name was Melissa) I met at the Rock in GF back in '94 . . . ahhh yes.

[cfm567b27]

Jesus I feel like Rip Van Winkle....been sleeping since the Frozen Four....woke up and wow - nice to see this thread

[#1Hakfan]

UND doesn't need to host the regionals. It would help, but we have been to 3 of the last 6 National Championships with out it. The one time it hurt us was playing Michigan in Ann Arbor in 1998. We lost the lead and they gained hometown momentum like we use to in the 3rd period comebacks vs. Minnesota in the old Ralph (during the 90's).

On the other hand Minnesota has took advantage of hosting regionals. We will never know if they would have got to the frozen Four without home ice in 2003 and 2005. And the NCAA wants nuetral sites, why does Minnesota get to host regionals at Mariucci on the olypmic sized ice sheet?