Fabian's non-goal

[PCM]

Melissa Wade, who sometimes posts here as "devsrule" has some great photos from the DU-UND championship game at her hockey photography Web site. Among them is a sequence showing Erik Fabian's non-goal. This photo is especially revealing:

I'm not trying to blame the officials or claim that the Sioux should have won because I agree that there wasn't enough conclusive video evidence to overturn the ruling on the ice. As the photo shows, Fabian and Mannino were probably the only two people on the ice who knew whether or not the puck was in.

However, I still wonder why there was no overhead view for video replay. That was the one angle the might have settled the issue one way or the other.

[LB#11]

What a terrific photo...talk about a game of inches. I agree that the right call was made...just wish Fabian could have arm wrestled Mannino to determine if it was a goal or not.

[DAR]

What a terrific photo...talk about a game of inches.  I agree that the right call was made...just wish Fabian could have arm wrestled Mannino to determine if it was a goal or not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I also agree that there was not conclusive evidence to call it a goal. Boy, that would have been a huge boost for the Sioux if that would have counted. It just wasn't our night. When you have a goalie stand on his head like that it makes it tough and then they come back and bounce the puck off of a guy and it deflects in.

[sprig]

I'd also agree that based on the replays shown on TV, and the fact that Shegos did not see it cross the line, that there was no way it was a goal.

However, from one close up replay, you can see the puck in the webbing as Mannino catches it outside the net, then a later replay clearly shows the top half of this glove behind the pipe. I have NO doubt that the puck was across the line, but can't disagree with the call as made.

Mannino would not say if he thought it was over or not in a post game interview, he chose to say only that he believed the right call was made. I think he knows full well (as does Fabian) that they puck was across the line, inside the glove. I'd guess Carle knows as well.

Also, from the pic, it appears Shegos has an excellent view of the glove in relationship to the pipe, although he may not have known what part of the glove the puck was in.

Did the replay official see only what we saw on the TV replay? I find it hard to believe there was not an overhead cam for the official, since review was required for every goal scored in th NCAA's. Were they really dependent on the ESPN cameras only?

[DMT]

However, I still wonder why there was no overhead view for video replay. That was the one angle the might have settled the issue one way or the other.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I too, was shocked that they didn't have an overhead view. I don't know if it would have changed anything, but I think it would have been the best angle for that situation.

[mwade]

I was going to wait to post here until I had the Semi & practice up so I wouldn't be super obnoxious with multiple posts. Sorry about your loss. After the Sioux beat BC (my favorite team) in Worcester and then Minnesota (my second favorite), I was really hoping that you'd at least beat Denver. Hmm, maybe I should apologize to you for disliking Denver thus causing your loss.

-Melissa

[jimdahl]

Also, from the pic, it appears Shegos has an excellent view of the glove in relationship to the pipe, although he may not have known what part of the glove the puck was in.

(Emphasis in quote mine). That was the call I heard in Columbus after the game. A significant part of the glove was in the goal, it included the part of the glove we all presume the puck to have been in, but there wasn't any definitive proof that's where the puck was.

Thanks for the pics Melissa -- the quality was apparent from the excerpts that you put on USCHO, but the volume was a pleasant surprise. With the Sioux in it, we had decided to sacrifice playing media/photographer to watch the games.

[Cratter]

If that pucks counts as a goal it's a whole new ballgame. IMHO turning point of the game.

[DMT]

If that pucks counts as a goal it's a whole new ballgame.  IMHO turning point of the game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Woulda, coulda, shoulda's.

[dagies]

I agree, PCM. I don't know why there was no overhead camera. However, in this case unless that camera could have glimpsed the puck I don't think it would have helped out. The replay angles that I saw clearly showed a significant part of the glove far enough over the line for a goal to have been called.

However, the question remains where the puck was in the glove. I, too, agree with the call in the end. I just wish the original call would have been a goal, which they could not have overturned in review!!!!

Oh well.

[redwing77]

I hate to use a Red Wing example in defense of Fabian, but I look back a while to where the Red Wings were playing in the first round of the playoffs (I think). Chris Osgood was still the goaltender for the Wings and he had apparently made a great save with his right leg pad. The play was reviewed and it was noticed that he moved his right leg forward after the whistle and the result was the puck moving out of the goal. The goal was counted and the Red Wings went on to lose. Now, that being said, there was a distinct movement of Mannino. Actually, two movements. The first was the retraction of his glove out of the goal. The second was that he opened the glove, which allowed the puck to move from its original position. If those situations were all held the same between NHL and NCAA (which they aren't, but still), then that would have been a goal.

That being said, there was no way to tell and tharefore you have to go nogoal. It was a contraversial call by the officials, sure, but one that I think was the better one.

[PCM]

However, in this case unless that camera could have glimpsed the puck I don't think it would have helped out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's hard to say. I'm trying to imagine what an overhead view might have shown. If Mannino gloved the puck right on the line or just in front of it, I doubt that an overhead view would have proved anything. Even if it showed the glove in the net -- unless the entire glove was in -- it would have been difficult to change the on-ice ruling. However, if the puck entered Mannino's glove just behind the line, it might have been possible to see that from directly overhead.

Unfortunatlely, camera angles, especially when telephoto lenses are used, can be very misleading because they compress distance and interfere with depth perception. Even the ESPN inside-the-net camera, which can be seen in Melissa's photo, didn't show anything conclusive one way or the other.

[sprig]

It's hard to say. I'm trying to imagine what an overhead view might have shown. If Mannino gloved the puck right on the line or just in front of it, I doubt that an overhead view would have proved anything.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought that you may be able to see the puck through the webbing of the glove. At one point a replay showed it there just before Mannino's glove went back behind the post.

[jk]

I hadn't gone through all those pictures until now. Thanks to the photographer who did a marvelous job with them.

Unfortunately, now I'm mad all over again. How many of those pictures are of Mannino making saves or with the puck bouncing around in front of him? Argh. It's also interesting that there are no pictures of Porter without a Pioneer between him and the glass.

Devsrule, I may have met you a few hours after the title game in the computer room at the Holiday Inn. I was the frustrated Sioux fan reading USCHO when you came in to print boarding passes. If that was you. Either way, nice job with the pictures.

[dagies]

Yes, excellent photos. I thought Porter got an awful lot of camera time!

[PCM]

I took the liberty of cropping and digitally enhancing Melissa's photo. Unfortunately, my effort only revealed one key detail.

[dagies]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[redwing77]

I took the liberty of cropping and digitally enhancing Melissa's photo. Unfortunately, my effort only revealed one key detail. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Classic.

[mwade]

JK - That was me. Thanks for letting me cut in on the computer/printer. I hope I wasn't too grouchy.

I know this will sound strange, but I haven't had time to really look at the pictures - I edit them in clumps - so I'm not sure if it got weighted one way or another. I did have Mannino at the closer end (spot was the ADA section above the Denver bench) so there is more of him than Parise, plus didn't get Parise with his face visible much. Porter might have been one of the ones I was missing a solo, safety shot of before the game. Mostly though I end with more of whatever player skates on the opposite side of the ice and whose face comes through easily (even when I over/under expose).

Thanks to Jim, I'll be able to add captions tonight which will give me an opportunity to actually look them as a whole.

Love the blow-up.

[sprig]

I took the liberty of cropping and digitally enhancing Melissa's photo. Unfortunately, my effort only revealed one key detail. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If I were you, I wouldn't quit my sudo reporter job yet to apply for a CSI lab job.

[PCM]

If I were you, I wouldn't quit my sudo reporter job yet to apply for a CSI lab job.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sudo reporting isn't a job, its an adventure.

[bigmrg74]

Sudo reporting isn't a job, its an adventure.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought it was more like a lifestyle??

[PCM]

I thought it was more like a lifestyle??   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not that there's anything wrong with that...

[Goon]

What a terrific photo...talk about a game of inches.  I agree that the right call was made...just wish Fabian could have arm wrestled Mannino to determine if it was a goal or not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have to respectfully disagree with you. I remember from that night the replay shows the puck was in the net. In fact the puck and the goaltenders glove was inside the net. Of course not being able to see the puck because, duh, it was in the net. The ref was chicken to make the right call. I think it was a huge non call. I mean really the whole glove was in the net. However, I am ready to move on.

[Goon]

Mannino would not say if he thought it was over or not in a post game interview, he chose to say only that he believed the right call was made. I think he knows full well (as does Fabian) that they puck was across the line, inside the glove. I'd guess Carle knows as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know why because he didn't want to admit he was scored on.