brianvf Posted March 14 Posted March 14 10 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said: We are not going to become a plucky little mid-major in NCAA hockey. It cannot be allowed to happen. It must not be allowed to happen. Then we, as alumni, need to open up our wallets and start getting that 1883 Collective some real money. Unfortunately that is a double-edge sword...it's harder for people to contribute money to that as the program sinks lower without real change. 3
.357 Posted March 14 Posted March 14 21 minutes ago, Frozen4sioux said: You need to listen to this podcast... you can hear from people who know a hell of a lot more about it, but to summarize.... Everything you have said is in no way remotely the case and your assumptions seem to be based in pure fantasy and denial. If you want to make a point, summarize it in a paragraph. Not going to spend 1.5 hrs listening to a podcast.
AJS Posted March 14 Posted March 14 39 minutes ago, Frozen4sioux said: You need to listen to this podcast... you can hear from people who know a hell of a lot more about it, but to summarize.... Everything you have said is in no way remotely the case and your assumptions seem to be based in pure fantasy and denial. Interesting timing! Bad luck Berry! Too bad there isn't a collective he could be pushing to help. 1
fightingsioux4life Posted March 14 Posted March 14 I think it is important to point out that our issues as a program have nothing to do with NIL. They have everything to do with Berry not being head coach material. He was a good assistant coach, but he has shown he cannot handle the complexities of being in charge of a Division I hockey program. It is time for a change. 2
fightingsioux4life Posted March 14 Posted March 14 20 minutes ago, AJS said: Chat, is this program cooked? No, it is not cooked. We've been in far worse shape before (most of the 1970's, early 1990's). I just want to avoid going down that road again.
Frozen4sioux Posted March 14 Posted March 14 37 minutes ago, .357 said: If you want to make a point, summarize it in a paragraph. Not going to spend 1.5 hrs listening to a podcast. but to summarize.... Everything you have said is in no way remotely the case and your assumptions seem to be based in pure fantasy and denial.
burd Posted March 14 Posted March 14 1 minute ago, fightingsioux4life said: No, it is not cooked. We've been in far worse shape before (most of the 1970's, early 1990's). I just want to avoid going down that road again. As long as I stay away, they'll bounce back. Undergrad degree 1975; additional degree 1992. 1
.357 Posted March 14 Posted March 14 21 minutes ago, Frozen4sioux said: but to summarize.... Everything you have said is in no way remotely the case and your assumptions seem to be based in pure fantasy and denial. That's a summary of your previous opinion, which I'm not interested in. If anyone here can summarize Brad S's podcast, pls do so.
AJS Posted March 14 Posted March 14 27 minutes ago, .357 said: That's a summary of your previous summary, which I'm not interested in. If anyone here can summarize Brad S's podcast, pls do so. Gage asked Schlossman if there's a chance one of the top end players that's supposed to come back transfers to a different school. Schlossman - "Oh yeah, that's the new era of college hockey". Summary being larger schools with more money are throwing money at players. The timing of this is too good though, just look back to earlier today. I believe this to be fact. Once a player is committed and on roster (we are not talking recruiting battles), unless something else is going on, they would not leave UND just for more money. Perron (for example) will not go to Michigan, just because they can write a bigger check. It's so unfortunate, but so unsurprising that's the narrative Schlossman is going with. As I've mentioned multiple times. All Berry has to do is sound the alarm. "We'll lose players if we don't get more $ in the collective". I bet that would work getting an uptick in donations! To your back and forth @.357, you saying it's not as daunting & threating to smaller schools per that conversation was false. Schlossman did mention NCHC schools are worried about it. We've seen it in the last few years, really affect recruiting the top end guys. Where I will completely agree with you, is UND specifically is in a very unique position with its large, passionate fanbase. I do think they can compete, but they need someone who makes fundraising for the collective a top priority.
siouxkid12 Posted March 14 Posted March 14 1 hour ago, Frozen4sioux said: Unfortunately, the best way to categorize this thinking is naive. But to hold this opinion still on the NILs importance to a program in reality is well past the "head in sand" or Neville Chamberlain territory. Its Kodak thinking digital pictures are a fad category We have had 4 1st rounders and 2 2nd rounders in 06-07 and they didn't win. Heck, we have had a ton of 1st and 2nd rounders since 2001 and we have not won crap. Today, those players would either A) Command a lot of money through the NIL or B) They never would've stayed/came in the first place. College hockey is vastly different than college basketball or college football. Those players command a lot of NIL dough because A) Those two sports are HIGHLY marketed B) The pro ranks for those sports do not allow them to sign a deal until they are removed from HS for a certain amount of time, NHL players have signed and PLAYED in the NHL at a very young age (Auston Matthews/Connor Bedard). I believe it is you who is NAIVE in thinking that NIL will "save/elevate" our program to new heights. Yes, NIL money will help but they still need to find that right players and the right players can be found without having to dump a lot of NIL money. Look at Drake Caggiula and Troy Stetcher. Those two players were overlooked for various reason, and they were some of our biggest contributors for that national title. 3
siouxkid12 Posted March 14 Posted March 14 11 minutes ago, AJS said: Gage asked Schlossman if there's a chance one of the top end players that's supposed to come back transfers to a different school. Schlossman - "Oh yeah, that's the new era of college hockey". Summary being larger schools with more money are throwing money at players. The timing of this is too good though, just look back to earlier today. I believe this to be fact. Once a player is committed and on roster (we are not talking recruiting battles), unless something else is going on, they would not leave the program just for more money. Perron (for example) will not go to Michigan, just because they can write a bigger check. It's so unfortunate, but so unsurprising that's the narrative Schlossman is going with. As I've mentioned multiple times. All Berry has to do is sound the alarm. "We'll lose players if we don't get more $ in the collective". I bet that would work getting an uptick in donations! That's Brad Schlossman's way of protecting Brad Berry. 3
Frozen4sioux Posted March 14 Posted March 14 28 minutes ago, .357 said: That's a summary of your previous opinion, which I'm not interested in. If anyone here can summarize Brad S's podcast, pls do so. If you want to stay ignorant about it that's on you. I gave you the tools, educate yourself.
siouxkid12 Posted March 14 Posted March 14 4 hours ago, .357 said: Using Boisvert as an example & if he were being lured away with big bucks to another program, I think UND would move heaven & earth to find a donor to outbid anyone else. He's that important to the team. So that if he or any other player of his caliber left UND & it wasn't related to playing time, it would likely be because that player felt he wasn't developing like he thought he should be or the team's potential didn't match his expectations. What if it's the Blackhawks luring him away? 1st round talent on a club that isn't going anywhere in the near future looks a lot more promising than going to another school for 1/3 of what he will get at a school.
Frozen4sioux Posted March 14 Posted March 14 8 minutes ago, siouxkid12 said: We have had 4 1st rounders and 2 2nd rounders in 06-07 and they didn't win. Heck, we have had a ton of 1st and 2nd rounders since 2001 and we have not won crap. Today, those players would either A) Command a lot of money through the NIL or B) They never would've stayed/came in the first place. College hockey is vastly different than college basketball or college football. Those players command a lot of NIL dough because A) Those two sports are HIGHLY marketed B) The pro ranks for those sports do not allow them to sign a deal until they are removed from HS for a certain amount of time, NHL players have signed and PLAYED in the NHL at a very young age (Auston Matthews/Connor Bedard). I believe it is you who is NAIVE in thinking that NIL will "save/elevate" our program to new heights. Yes, NIL money will help but they still need to find that right players and the right players can be found without having to dump a lot of NIL money. Look at Drake Caggiula and Troy Stetcher. Those two players were overlooked for various reason, and they were some of our biggest contributors for that national title. Hell of a snapshot Kodak. Your feelings aren't facts though.... they are erroneous opinions on what's happened in the past and applying it to situations that are not accurate today or in the future. I'd direct you to the same Live in 5 podcast, a few people maybe a bit more connected than feelings and a keyboard are telling you exactly how big of a deal it is,,,, and will continue to be.
AJS Posted March 14 Posted March 14 8 minutes ago, Frozen4sioux said: I'd direct you to the same Live in 5 podcast, a few people maybe a bit more connected than feelings and a keyboard are telling you exactly how big of a deal it is,,,, and will continue to be. Listened twice. Good conversation, happy they are sounding the alarms. Reiterating, you need a coach who makes NIL a top priority.
siouxkid12 Posted March 14 Posted March 14 6 minutes ago, Frozen4sioux said: Hell of a snapshot Kodak. Your feelings aren't facts though.... they are erroneous opinions on what's happened in the past and applying it to situations that are not accurate today or in the future. I'd direct you to the same Live in 5 podcast, a few people maybe a bit more connected than feelings and a keyboard are telling you exactly how big of a deal it is,,,, and will continue to be. My apologies to you and the Live in 5 podcast guys. You seem to know it all and have a crystal ball into the future. Now that I have an understanding that your feelings are factual, I will never question you again. By the way, how did you come up with your "facts"? Were you the GM in franchise mode on NHL 2020?
.357 Posted March 14 Posted March 14 6 minutes ago, siouxkid12 said: What if it's the Blackhawks luring him away? 1st round talent on a club that isn't going anywhere in the near future looks a lot more promising than going to another school for 1/3 of what he will get at a school. I was suggesting if another school was trying to poach him..but as @AJSsaid, & this makes sense, it's highly unlikely that a player currently on the roster will transfer to another school for monetary reasons. It would probably be because he felt his skills weren't developing enough, chemistry issues, the team wasn't being managed properly or the team just flat out sucked & there was no chance for postseason success. NIL for college fb & bb is a whole other beast compared to college hockey, as you were saying. If NIL had been around 20 yrs ago & we were dumping absurd amounts of cash on guys like Toews, Oshie, Parise, Nelson, we'd still be without a title while those guys played. A savvy coach like Ferschweiler or Carle who can recruit & develop the right mix of players is much more conducive to success than shelling out a lot of money for the latest phenom. Not saying NIL isn't important, as it can be used occasionally for the right player or two, but it's not something a program should build around or be overly worried about. 1 2
fightingsioux4life Posted March 14 Posted March 14 34 minutes ago, Frozen4sioux said: If you want to stay ignorant about it that's on you. I gave you the tools, educate yourself. Is NIL important? Yes. Should UND push hard to grow the 1883 Collective? Definitely. Should we have started our collective earlier? Absolutely. But is NIL the end all and be all? No way. 2
Frozen4sioux Posted March 14 Posted March 14 10 minutes ago, siouxkid12 said: My apologies to you Accepted.
brianvf Posted March 14 Posted March 14 25 minutes ago, AJS said: Listened twice. Good conversation, happy they are sounding the alarms. Reiterating, you need a coach who makes NIL a top priority. Hopefully someone -- anyone -- that can actually make decisions for this program is listening to those alarms going off. 2
siouxkid12 Posted March 14 Posted March 14 15 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said: Is NIL important? Yes. Should UND push hard to grow the 1883 Collective? Definitely. Should we have started our collective earlier? Absolutely. But is NIL the end all and be all? No way. Exactly! NIL isn’t gunna magically bring the program to a new level never been seen before. I don’t care if you live in central ND or talk on a podcast, it is straight blasphemy to think that. And if you think that way, you will be left disappointed. Will a NIL help in certain areas, it sure will but that’s only a part. What UND really needs is an AD and a coach (I like Berry and I still think he’ll be back for his last year but no extension). Yes, UND has had a lot of NHL draft picks come through the ranks but some of the best players to help UND win big games are undrafted, not highly touted players. 2
siouxkid12 Posted March 14 Posted March 14 32 minutes ago, .357 said: I was suggesting if another school was trying to poach him..but as @AJSsaid, & this makes sense, it's highly unlikely that a player currently on the roster will transfer to another school for monetary reasons. It would probably be because he felt his skills weren't developing enough, chemistry issues, the team wasn't being managed properly or the team just flat out sucked & there was no chance for postseason success. NIL for college fb & bb is a whole other beast compared to college hockey, as you were saying. If NIL had been around 20 yrs ago & we were dumping absurd amounts of cash on guys like Toews, Oshie, Parise, Nelson, we'd still be without a title while those guys played. A savvy coach like Ferschweiler or Carle who can recruit & develop the right mix of players is much more conducive to success than shelling out a lot of money for the latest phenom. Not saying NIL isn't important, as it can be used occasionally for the right player or two, but it's not something a program should build around or be overly worried about. I think you’re right. I am just saying that a 1st round draft pick is either staying at his current school or signing a pro contract. No amount of NIL money will keep them in school. Hockey players are built different and the fact that the NHL doesn’t have a (years removed from school) rule like the NBA or NFL, I just have a hard time seeing a 1st round pick transferring because he was offered x amount of NIL dollars to go to Michigan or Minnesota. 1
iramurphy Posted March 14 Posted March 14 17 hours ago, Benny Baker said: You’re right. I’m wrong. UND hockey, athletics, and its NIL collective have been crushing it as of late. All is well folks. Sorry for any false alarm. I’m confused. You mean the “best hockey fans” in the world can’t pony up $600,000 to $1 million to buy out a contract? Tell me it’s not true . Reading the posts on his forum, virtually the entire fan base wants a coaching change (I don’t doubt many feel that way). So what is this passionate fan base waiting for? Won’t 10,000 fans toss in $1000 apiece? Do the math. Wouldn’t that take care of the buyout and NIL? How about $100 apiece? Wouldn’t that take care of the buyout with some pocket change left for unforeseen expenses? I would bet some of the “cotton tops” would toss in more than their share. Some folks seem to think Berry is doing nothing regarding NIL. I will take that bet, but why do “the best college hockey fans in the world” need to hear from him before donating? All college programs, including our program, need help so what are people waiting for? We can’t wait til we lose guys in the portal. The NIL collective is already there. Some guys probably spend $10,000 per year on booze. We could give half to the NIL collective and still have more than enough left over and would probably be better off. Just some thoughts.
siouxkid12 Posted March 14 Posted March 14 56 minutes ago, iramurphy said: I’m confused. You mean the “best hockey fans” in the world can’t pony up $600,000 to $1 million to buy out a contract? Tell me it’s not true . Reading the posts on his forum, virtually the entire fan base wants a coaching change (I don’t doubt many feel that way). So what is this passionate fan base waiting for? Won’t 10,000 fans toss in $1000 apiece? Do the math. Wouldn’t that take care of the buyout and NIL? How about $100 apiece? Wouldn’t that take care of the buyout with some pocket change left for unforeseen expenses? I would bet some of the “cotton tops” would toss in more than their share. Some folks seem to think Berry is doing nothing regarding NIL. I will take that bet, but why do “the best college hockey fans in the world” need to hear from him before donating? All college programs, including our program, need help so what are people waiting for? We can’t wait til we lose guys in the portal. The NIL collective is already there. Some guys probably spend $10,000 per year on booze. We could give half to the NIL collective and still have more than enough left over and would probably be better off. Just some thoughts. Why should the fans be on the hook for our AD’s mistake in extending coaches that become mediocre? I have a hard time donating money to coverup a bad extension that the AD gave out.
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