DI vs. DII

[greenandgold01]

West Georgia? They stink. What have they done lately in the GSC to make them think they could be a successfull D1-AA??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They probably know simply by virtue of being DIaa that they could tap into the vast bed of football talent in the southeast.

[Rabbitlivinginverm]

PS - Did SDSU say "thank you" to NDSU for giving them that one big gate to help their average?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Winona St. 8,718

Western Oregon 5,227

NDSU 12,323

Augustana 13,116

While we only had 4 home games last year and we benefited from all of them being attractive games, I have a feeling that Western Oregons attendance # will be the exception rather than the rule. Thanks for caring though!

[Cratter]

Winona St. 8,718

Western Oregon 5,227

NDSU 12,323

Augustana 13,116

While we only had 4 home games last year and we benefited from all of them being attractive games, I have a feeling that Western Oregons attendance # will be the exception rather than the rule. Thanks for caring though!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

SDSU fans always show up for Hobo Day.

[bincitysioux]

.........to add about your comments about Men's basketball.  Down the road mens basketball attendance would be around 4-6,000 (at D1 level) when you have bigger more recognizable names coming to your school....say Kansas, Minnesota, Iowa, Montana, Wisconsin, every couple years or so.

I know that this thread has been dead for a while, but Minnesota's recent scheduling of ndsu in basketball got me thinking about DI again. If UND were to go DI, I would think that it would be very appealing for schools such as Minnesota and Wisconsin to bring us in for a "guarantee" game, even in the first year of transition. We already have a huge rivalry with the gophers in hockey, and a pretty good one with the badgers, too. This puts us in a better situation than other schools in transition would be in as far as scheduling woes, and better chances for making money in what would be a tough five year period. I would think that these Big 10/WCHA schools would jump at the chance to play a program that they already have quite a history with.

Also, I think that the DI debate could be getting a big kick in the pants with the hiring of an A.D. from a school with all DI sports, including hockey. Not to mention the appointment of Rob Bollinger as his assistant, a big football guy who I think is obviously on board with DI. Last, but not least, the news that Kupchella has aspirations of moving on.

[johnsowe]

I don't think wisconson will play us because of the name issue. I know that minnesota did play UND last year. So what the ndsu plays them we could if we wanted too.

[Jamestown]

Just because UND schedules those schools in a minor DI sport of hockey doesn't mean that they will be scheduled in in the big-time sports! Nor could they care less if Bollinger is on the staff.

NDSU men's basketball has games scheduled against major DI programs like Minnesota, Wisconsin, Kansas St. and Colorado St. for the 2005-2006 year. And the NDSU men's football team will probably be playing the Gophers in the Metrodome in 2007.

Talk is cheap, the Bison schedule shows that they are DI, not only in minor sports, but football and basketball as well. Can you say Minnesota, Wisconsin, Kansas St. and Colorado St. in men's basketball?

[Smoggy]

Just because UND schedules those schools in a minor DI sport of hockey doesn't mean that they will be scheduled in in the big-time sports!  Nor could they care less if Bollinger is on the staff.

NDSU men's basketball has games scheduled against major DI programs like Minnesota, Wisconsin, Kansas St. and Colorado St. for the 2005-2006 year.  And the NDSU men's football team will probably be playing the Gophers in the Metrodome in 2007.

Talk is cheap, the Bison schedule shows that they are DI, not only in minor sports, but football and basketball as well.  Can you say Minnesota, Wisconsin, Kansas St. and Colorado St. in men's basketball?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow. Now you're claiming that KSU and CSU are major DI in men's bball. They suck, plain and simple.

[CoteauRinkRat]

Just because UND schedules those schools in a minor DI sport of hockey doesn't mean that they will be scheduled in in the big-time sports!  Nor could they care less if Bollinger is on the staff.

NDSU men's basketball has games scheduled against major DI programs like Minnesota, Wisconsin, Kansas St. and Colorado St. for the 2005-2006 year.  And the NDSU men's football team will probably be playing the Gophers in the Metrodome in 2007.

Talk is cheap, the Bison schedule shows that they are DI, not only in minor sports, but football and basketball as well.  Can you say Minnesota, Wisconsin, Kansas St. and Colorado St. in men's basketball?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I will never understand the need to come on to this board and talk pot shots and cheap shots

Why not try and discuss the issue civily?

You give all of the other Bison posters on here a bad name.

[star2city]

I honestly believe that the only way D-I is going to work is for the Big Sky to come calling. And let me put it this way... from what I have been told, if BSC expansion into the Dakotas is going to happen, it is going to include UND. I believe Gene Taylor is going to have the new UND athletic director on speed dial!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

After the events of the last few weeks, the writing should be on the wall rather plainly: UND’s time in DII is ticking down. A new AD with DI experience has been hired, Bollinger has been strategically placed in a position that maximizes his fundraising capabilities, and Kupchella, probably not wholeheartedly behind a DI vision and its startup expenses, now seeks greener pastures. The Big Sky interest of last December was likely genuine, with the UNC addition a possible precursor to a three-team addition (NDSU/SDSU/UND) later this decade (to make a 12 -team two-division Big Sky).

It would seem Roger Thomas really has his work cut out for him. With UND, UNO, and perhaps Augustana (NSIC interest?) all being weak links in the NCC membership, Roger probably has only until Dec 1 of this year (Dec 1 of 2006 at the latest), in order to get two new teams needed to assure a level of stability for the NCC.

The next couple of years could be rather critical/perilous/opportunistic times for all local schools athletic programs: if the Big Sky doesn’t come through on membership, UND, NDSU, and SDSU could all be DI independents for a long long time. Most UND supporters won’t stomach DII if the DAC-8 implodes, which now seems inevitable, and forces most of those schools into DII. Minot State is already likely to move to DII, forcing Jamestown and Dakota St onto the NSIC’s doorsteps, and Dickinson St to the Frontier conference?, and Black Hills State to the RMAC(?). Mayville and Valley City would likely end up in the Minn-Morris league. Throw in what USD, SCSU, Mankato, UMD, Sioux Falls College and St. Thomas could do, and it really could end up a mess.

[UND92,96]

After the events of the last few weeks, the writing should be on the wall rather plainly:

[star2city]

Do you really think UND would go dI without some kind of assurances from the Big Sky that an invitation would be forthcoming? If we actually did end up going dI without any sort of assurances of impending conference membership and end up being a dI independent for several years, I'd be very disappointed in our leadership.

Regarding the NSIC and the fact that it's apparently willing to add, or at least seriously consider adding nearly any school that applies, might this finally be the straw that breaks the camel's back and causes some of the better programs to look more seriously at increasing their budgets and moving to the NCC? If I'm a Winona St. fan, for example, I wouldn't be very excited about what my school's football schedule might look like in 3-5 years.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If the NCC does not add a few more teams, and say Augustana or UNO left, the other schools would probably rush for the exits. Without a viable NCC, UND's choices then would be a super-sized NSIC (and scholarship reductions) or DI. DI would practically be forced on UND, with or without the Big Sky. If Winona St is going to step up their program to the NCC level, they need to do it soon. But it is probably to Winona State's advantage to remain in the NSIC, for playoff reasons and for wielding considerable influence over the future state of DII athletics in the Upper Midwest.

Edit (i.e. by playing their card right, Winona State can get back their rivalries with St. Cloud, Mankato, and Duluth, and effectively evict UND / UNO as competitors.)

[bigmrg74]

If the NCC does not add a few more teams, and say Augustana or UNO left, the other schools would probably rush for the exits. Without a viable NCC, UND's choices then would be a super-sized NSIC (and scholarship reductions) or DI. DI would practically be forced on UND, with or without the Big Sky. If Winona St is going to step up their program to the NCC level, they need to do it soon. But it is probably to Winona State's advantage to remain in the NSIC, for playoff reasons and for wielding considerable influence over the future state of DII athletics in the Upper Midwest.

Edit (i.e. by playing their card right, Winona State can get back their rivalries with St. Cloud, Mankato, and Duluth, and effectively evict UND / UNO as competitors.)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good point Star2city. Winona pretty much has an autobid for the playoffs for every year in the NSIC. And the MIAA has been after UNO for a while and its not likely to stop persuing them. UNO and UND are pretty much the lynchpins to the NCC right now. If one of them goes, so does the league.

[UND92,96]

If the NCC does not add a few more teams, and say Augustana or UNO left, the other schools would probably rush for the exits.

[UND92,96]

Good point Star2city.

[star2city]

The risk that I see from an NSIC standpoint with even flirting with the idea of "stealing" Augie from the NCC is that the potential demise of the NCC could be viewed as a negative to many current NSIC schools. If I'm a UMC or MSU-Moorhead fan, the last thing I potentially want to see is having to compete with SCSU, MSU-Mankato, USD and UMD (again) in the NSIC. Even with scholarship cuts, those programs would be far superior to most current NSIC members, at least in football. A healthy and viable NCC benefits the NSIC by keeping the bigger and better-funded programs away from them and in their own conference.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agree that some NSIC schools would not be in favor of an NCC demise, but others such as Winona, Mary, Northern, Concordia probably would. If the NCC folded, then those four and UMD, SCSU, Mankato, Augie and USD could reformulate a "new" NCC, without the deeper pocket budgets of UNO and UND. What would be left of the NSIC would have to take Dakota State, Minot State, and maybe Jamestown and Sioux Falls.

[The Sicatoka]

Even though moving to the NSIC would allow for a reduced budget, I don't think such a move--which would likely be viewed as a significant step downward by most alums--would pay off ...

Question:

How's Morningside doing after leaving the NCC? Admittedly they went DIII and not to a DII NSIC, but that'd have to be something that Augustana would look at if it were to come to pass.

[UND92,96]

Question:

How's Morningside doing after leaving the NCC? Admittedly they went DIII and not to a DII NSIC, but that'd have to be something that Augustana would look at if it were to come to pass.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

From a competitive standpoint, they've actually done quite well since leaving for NAIA link. To this day, I still don't entirely understand their motives for leaving aside from the fact that they were very poor in football. They were very good in men's basketball, and apparently their women's basketball program is far better now than it used to be. If you could simply eliminate football from the equation, I'd love to see them back in the NCC, although admittedly that's highly unlikely to ever happen.

[The Sicatoka]

From a competitive standpoint, they've actually done quite well since leaving ...

Which begs the next question:

Would Morningside supporters tell you it was a good move?

[UND92,96]

Which begs the next question:

Would Morningside supporters tell you it was a good move?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm afraid you've lost me, Sic. I don't know what Morningside supporters think. I don't know what Augie supporters think (except for the two who have posted on the d2football.com board who apparently want to stay in the NCC), although I have a hard time believing a majority would support a move away from a conference in which they've been a member for over 60 years if the primary reason is the ability to win a few more football games per year (again, I can only speculate as to what role football would play in such a move). I freely admit that I don't want them to leave the NCC for purely selfish reasons. I want UND to remain in dII and the NCC, and I'm not sure that will be possible if more members are lost considering how difficult it's turning out to be to find new ones.

[The Sicatoka]

I didn't expect you or I to know the answer. And I expect no concensus from Morningside fans also. But it's a question that Augustana fans would need to consider all sides of before moving in any direction.

[wsuwarrior]

Ok, I'm going to reply en masse.

Would I enjoy seeing Winona State move from the NSIC to the NCC? Yes, without question.

However there are major financial issues still at concern for Winona State before that jump is made.

1) Scholarships: More scholly dollars need to be in the system.

2) Facilities need an upgrade.

Midwest Wireless Stadium (football, women's soccer, softball) has improved greatly over the past five years. New bleachers, increased capacity, new ticket booth, and a new pressbox with luxury suites. Softball NEEDS to move out of the football stadium, bar none. It just plain looks ugly with a snow fence.

Memorial Hall (men's and women's basketball, volleyball, gymnastics, women's indoor track) The Volleyball team will certainly benefit from the new volleyball specific floor and arena set up in the south end of the fieldhouse. I would love to see the basketball team with a better set up. Under the best circumstances, I'd like a set up like MSU-Mankato. Failing that, a set up like Southwest Minnesota State would increase the seating capacity. Sadly, a new set up can't happen for seating until space is found for spring teams to practice It would be nice to have a new base floor placed for the track team, I can't imagine the indoor set up is the friendly to run on).

Loughrey Field (baseball) The baseball team's facilities have gotten better with a great new press box, although more seating would be nice.

St. Teresa's Tennis Center (men's and women's tennis) A great set up for tennis from what I understand. No real complaints.

Cedar Valley Golf Course (men's and women's golf) It was nice enough for the NCAA to award the Regional, so I have no complaints (although, I'm not a golfer, I'm not sure what could be changed from that end).

Lake Park (men's and women's cross country) - beautiful set up, crowd friendly. It could be better in some respects, but for all things considered, it's nice.

Paul Giel Field (outdoor women's track) I'm not sure I've seen a home meet since I started here four years ago, so I'm guessing this is what would be used if they hosted something here (perhaps Winona State and Saint Mary's could build a joint stadium).

Once the facility upgrades happen and scholarships go up, I could see this as more of a possibility. But that's gonna take money and time. One we have, and one we're working on.

[dakotadan]

[UND92,96]

Do you not also agree that UND's alumni might also view a DII move by DAC-10 teams (UMary and quite possibly Minot State, maybe even others) might be viewed as a significant step downward by most (even some) alums--would pay off as I suspect some donors might reduce or even pull their support (without a DI move?)...

Sure there would be a lot of fans and alums who would be uncomfortable being in the same division as the soon-to-be-former DAC-10. But it's not like those schools are going to be in the NCC. Every division has its members who don't belong, division I included. I think it would be a mistake to focus in on schools joining or potentially joining dII and who really aren't our peers anyway, instead of focusing on how great it is playing the schools that ARE our peers, like UNO, St. Cloud St., USD, Grand Valley St., Pitt St., etc.

Even so... where does the NCC honestly have to look for more members which are badly needed? The names that have been thrown out and are the most viable are the 2 Washington schools for FB only, and/or Northern Michigan and Mich. Tech. and very unlikely UN-Kerney. That doesn't leave the NCC with many options except picking more schools from the NSIC. How many UND alumni are going to be satisfied with picking more and more schools off of the NSIC?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think anybody would be disappointed with Winona St. joining the NCC, if it ever happens. Concordia-St. Paul has potential. Northern St. has potential. And even if we can't find any other all-sports members, I'd still rather be in a strong seven-team league in dII than go dI and have no conference at all.

[bincitysioux]

Here is the pre-season Top 25 for I-AA football this year:

1. James Madison 15965/30707/10242

2. Furman 3208/58282/11074

3. Eastern Washington 9924/7723/6182

4. Montana 13026/42918/23352

5. Georgia Southern 15075/15854/15793

6. Western Kentucky 17811/40641/10124

7. Delaware 21289/25098/18895

8. Northwestern State 10159/16609/10707

9. New Hampshire 15407/9236/3714

10. Northern Iowa 14167/34298/12080

11. Southern Illinois 21873/27033/9748

12. William & Mary 7645/11530/6711

13. Lehigh 6686/71428/10683

14. Sam Houston State 13091/27925/6406

15. Harvard 24969/95802/11110

16. Massachusetts 24062/17824/7618

17. Cal Poly 18453/41958/6700

18. North Dakota State 11146/90000/11567

19. Jacksonville State 8930/10283/10303

20. Lafayette 2300/26276/5558

21. Montana State 11841/22660/11892

22. Hampton 5793/133793/7306

23. Appalachian State 14178/12915/14661

24. Maine 11135/10578/6701

25. Hofstra 13412/49453/3535

The first number behind each school is its enrollment, the second is the population of the city it's located in, the third is its average attendance for FB games. These are 2003 figures.

Avg Enroll: 13,261

Avg Pop: 36,833

Avg Attend: 10,105

UND Enroll: 13,000

GF Pop: 54,000

UND Attend: 9,389

There are 120 schools with I-AA football. 13 of those schools sponsor DI hockey, about 11% of the division. There are 4 schools in the top 25 with DI hockey, or about 16% of the poll. That tells me that DI hockey could be more of an asset in a move to DI rather than a liabality.

[TheBisonator]

Here is the pre-season Top 25 for I-AA football this year:

1. James Madison          15965/30707/10242

2. Furman                      3208/58282/11074

3. Eastern Washington    9924/7723/6182

4. Montana                    13026/42918/23352

5. Georgia Southern        15075/15854/15793

6. Western Kentucky        17811/40641/10124

7. Delaware                    21289/25098/18895

8. Northwestern State      10159/16609/10707

9. New Hampshire          15407/9236/3714

10. Northern Iowa          14167/34298/12080

11. Southern Illinois        21873/27033/9748

12. William & Mary          7645/11530/6711

13. Lehigh                      6686/71428/10683

14. Sam Houston State    13091/27925/6406

15. Harvard                    24969/95802/11110

16. Massachusetts          24062/17824/7618

17. Cal Poly                    18453/41958/6700

18. North Dakota State    11146/90000/11567

19. Jacksonville State      8930/10283/10303

20. Lafayette                  2300/26276/5558

21. Montana State          11841/22660/11892

22. Hampton                  5793/133793/7306

23. Appalachian State      14178/12915/14661

24. Maine                        11135/10578/6701

25. Hofstra                      13412/49453/3535

The first number behind each school is its enrollment, the second is the population of the city it's located in, the third is its average attendance for FB games.  These are 2003 figures.

Avg Enroll: 13,261

Avg Pop:    36,833

Avg Attend: 10,105

UND Enroll:  13,000

GF Pop:      54,000

UND Attend: 9,389

There are 120 schools with I-AA football.  13 of those schools sponsor DI hockey, about 11% of the division.  There are 4 schools in the top 25 with DI hockey, or about 16% of the poll.  That tells me that DI hockey could be more of an asset in a move to DI rather than a liabality.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, Fargo (city only) has about 102,000 people according to the latest city estimate. The 2000 Census pop. was 90,599.