NCC expansion

[jimdahl]

The Herald says:

The North Central Conference is talking with Central Washington and Western Washington about the possibility of joining the NCAA Division II league for football only.

[UND92,96]

The Herald says:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

From purely a football perspective, I think this would make sense. It would obviously mean that two fewer non-conference games would need to be found every year, which would probably be a relief to Dale Lennon and the new a.d. These programs have also proven to be competitive in recent years. It would, I assume, mean that some concessions would have to be made with regard to conference scholarship minimums as I don't believe either program is anywhere near 30 and quite probably never will be. But I don't think that is quite as big of a deal in their geographic location as it would be if they were in the Dakota's or Minnesota. One trip to Washington per year shouldn't break the bank of any existing NCC school's athletic department.

[The Sicatoka]

One trip to Washington per year shouldn't break the bank of any existing NCC school's athletic department.

One trip to Washington and one Washington team in GF annually (conference so no guarantee to pay)

vs.

having to fill two, probably home, dates (and probably pay guarantees to both).

Easy.

That's why having a conference is important: It helps in budget planning.

[bigmrg74]

It would make sense from a schedualling perspective. But those schools are going to have to make quite a few serious roadtrips every year. One trip to Washington isn't going to hurt most of the current NCC teams, but what about CWU and WWU having to make the trips to North Dakota, South Dakota, Minneasota, and Nebraska every year? Thats hard on the budget. Not to mention that I don't think any of those GNAC schools are up to full number of rides. But then again, this all could be speculation. More likely to cultivate more of an association deal than anything perhaps.

[legend334]

what about their budgets though..you would think that would hurt...i guess i would rather see a solution for the whole league....all the teams in the NCC are struggling to find games...not only football...if you add them now does that not lure someone else in the future because they want in the NCC for football too??? i think this may limit UND at a chance to get a legitimately good team..IMO...

[Smoggy]

Didn't the NCC already have some sort of deal with these team for non-conference games anyways? Or was it just the likes of UND, Omaha and whoever else?

[star2city]

It would make sense from a schedualling perspective.  But those schools are going to have to make quite a few serious roadtrips every year.  One trip to Washington isn't going to hurt most of the current NCC teams, but what about CWU and WWU having to make the trips to North Dakota, South Dakota, Minneasota, and Nebraska every year?  Thats hard on the budget.  Not to mention that I don't think any of those GNAC schools are up to full number of rides.  But then again, this all could be speculation.  More likely to cultivate more of an association deal than anything perhaps.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Looking at WWU's schedule, they are already making some serious trips this coming year. Even their GNAC trip to Humboldt State is a haul. At a minimum, they would get rid of thier double round robin GNAC schedule, and have early season games against Humboldt and Western Oregon.

WWU Schedule

Aug. 27 (Sat.) at Mesa State, Grand Junction, CO, 1 p.m. MT

Sept. 3 (Sat.) at Washburn, Topeka, KS, 1 p.m. CT

Sept. 10 (Sat.) ST. CLOUD STATE, BELLINGHAM, 6 p.m.

Sept. 17 (Sat.) at North Dakota Grand Forks, ND, TBA

Sept. 24 (Sat.) Bye

Oct. 1 (Sat.) HUMBOLDT STATE*, BELLINGHAM, 1 p.m.

Oct. 8 (Sat.) vs. Central Washington*, Seattle, 6 p.m. (Battle in Seattle at Qwest Field)

Oct. 15 (Sat.) at Western Oregon*, Monmouth, OR, 1 p.m.

Oct. 22 (Sat.) at Humboldt State*, Arcata, CA, 1 p.m.

Oct. 29 (Sat.) CENTRAL WASHINGTON* (CASCADE CUP) BELLINGHAM, 1 p.m.

Nov. 5 (Sat.) WESTERN OREGON* (HOMECOMING/HALL OF FAME) BELLINGHAM, 1 p.m.

[star2city]

what about their budgets though..you would think that would hurt...i guess i would rather see a solution for the whole league....all the teams in the NCC are struggling to find games...not only

[dakotadan]

I definately wouldn't mind seeing these 2 schools added as affiliate members for football. But over on d2foootball.com people were also throwing around the idea of possibly wooing Michigan Tech and/or Northern Michigan away from the GLIAC. What do people think about this idea? It would help out the rest of the other teams to get a school that would be playing in all of the sports.

[UNO Rules]

If we added these teams for football would that hurt our chances of getting other schools to committ to join our conference for other sports.

[bincitysioux]

Washington is too far. The NCC needs to look closer within the region, but also for a quality program. Could Winona St. ever be lured away from the NSIC? I think they would be a great addition to the NCC. We've already had a couple of good playoff games with them in recent years. Plus if Minot is going DII, they'd be an excellent replacement for them in the NSIC.

[bigmrg74]

I definately wouldn't mind seeing these 2 schools added as affiliate members for football. But over on d2foootball.com people were also throwing around the idea of possibly wooing Michigan Tech and/or Northern Michigan away from the GLIAC. What do people think about this idea? It would help out the rest of the other teams to get a school that would be playing in all of the sports.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, I could see NMU and MTU leaving the GLIAC. Its a pain for most of the GLIAC to get up there, especially by bus, being that you gotta cross the Mackinac Bridge instead of a more direct shot than what you would get coming from oh say Duluth or elsewear in the NCC. Plus, Ideal travel partners with a big rivalry. Both schools are up to full numbers of rides for football, and I'm sure that those of you in the NCC wouldn't mind playing their hockey teams a little more often perhaps.

[Smoggy]

Yeah, I could see NMU and MTU leaving the GLIAC. Its a pain for most of the GLIAC to get up there, especially by bus, being that you gotta cross the Mackinac Bridge instead of a more direct shot than what you would get coming from oh say Duluth or elsewear in the NCC. Plus, Ideal travel partners with a big rivalry. Both schools are up to full numbers of rides for football, and I'm sure that those of you in the NCC wouldn't mind playing their hockey teams a little more often perhaps.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, hockey conferences are completely seperate. MTU is already in the WCHA with us. NMU used to be, but now is in the CCHA with the likes of Michigan. I believe MTU had a hiatus over to the CCHA for a few years as well. Correct me if I'm wrong with that last statement.

[bigmrg74]

Actually, hockey conferences are completely seperate. MTU is already in the WCHA with us. NMU used to be, but now is in the CCHA with the likes of Michigan. I believe MTU had a hiatus over to the CCHA for a few years as well. Correct me if I'm wrong with that last statement.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not so, they play NMU in hockey often as its a huge rivalry game between them. And they have a deal with Michigan where they have the Great Lakes Invitational hockey tournament together at the Joe. Often Mich State is there so that would be at least 3 CCHA teams a year for Mich Tech.

[bincitysioux]

I even think raiding the RMAC of Nebraska-Kearney and/or Mesa State would be better than looking to Washington schools. Doesn't this conference want to go NAIA anyways?

[Smoggy]

Not so, they play NMU in hockey often as its a huge rivalry game between them. And they have a deal with Michigan where they have the Great Lakes Invitational hockey tournament together at the Joe. Often Mich State is there so that would be at least 3 CCHA teams a year for Mich Tech.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

MTU may play those teams more often due to proximity, but we necessarily wouldn't play a team like NMU. Though I'm sure some NCC schools would play them more often. I can't think of the when the last time a WCHA team played NMU was.

[siouxfan499]

I see the University of Mary is considering a move to D2, BUT, only if they can get a conference. I read in the Bismarck Tribune that there has already been one conference out there touring facilities. Al Bortke (Mary AD) made it perfectly clear that they wouldn't join without a conference. I'm not sure Mary would be a good fit in the NCC YET, but they are a perennial national playoff contender in NAIA, and they have good proximity. Another good NAIA school to look at is Carrol College in Helena, MT. Dickinson State has a good football and track program (defending national champions), but they are lacking in other sports.

[legend334]

Mary would definitely have the funding to compete at D2...i had heard they would have to cut scholarship money in some of their sports just to comply with NCC rules...such as track....i believe almost all their programs are fully funded....adding these Washington schools is a temporary fix to a long term problem....so why fix it short term when it could hurt the NCC in the long term??

[CoteauRinkRat]

Dickinson State has a good football and track program (defending national champions), but they are lacking in other sports.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You can't be serious, Dickinson State? lol

Just mentioning them in this thread makes me laugh.

Dickinson State is a fine school, but definitely not NCC material.

[ethanm]

From what I've read, it seems like Mary is more interested in the NSIC than the NCC. I would think the NCC would be your goal since it's a higher regarded conference, and they'd have an in-state rival in UND. It's also not like the location of the NSIC schools is any more favorable than the NCC. Maybe, they think they'll have an easier time getting in the playoffs by winning the NSIC.

[UND92,96]

I posted this idea on d2football.com and it was received positively by most NCC fans, so I figured I'd share it here, as well. Assuming for the sake of argument that Central Washington and Western Washington are added as football-only members, how about adding a school like Montana State-Billings as a member for all other sports? They don't have football, but they are generally very solid in men's and women's basketball. Being located in the eastern part of Montana, they're closer than Northern Colorado was, at least for everybody except perhaps UNO. They don't really have a true conference at present, as they play in a quasi-conference with three Hawaii schools and one from New Mexico. For basketball in particular, that would put the NCC back at an even number of teams with 8. I know it's not an ideal solution, but I really don't think there are going to be any good alternatives for all-sports members unless a school like Winona St. does the unexpected and wants to move, or perhaps Carroll College from Montana if they decided to move from NAIA to dII. Thoughts?

[bincitysioux]

Sounds good to me. The basketball conference sucks now, it's too short. Having a relatively close school would be nice. I still don't see what would keep Winona in the NSIC if they had a chance at the NCC. As far as football goes, I still say the RMAC pisses me off, trying to reduce scholarships. Nebraska-Kearney would be great for UNO and everyone else too. Mesa St. seems to always be on the schedule and would be a good replacement for Northern Colorado.

[star2city]

I posted this idea on d2football.com and it was received positively by most NCC fans, so I figured I'd share it here, as well. Assuming for the sake of argument that Central Washington and Western Washington are added as football-only members, how about adding a school like Montana State-Billings as a member for all other sports? They don't have football, but they are generally very solid in men's and women's basketball. Being located in the eastern part of Montana, they're closer than Northern Colorado was, at least for everybody except perhaps UNO. They don't really have a true conference at present, as they play in a quasi-conference with three Hawaii schools and one from New Mexico.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just recently MSU-Billings and Western New Mexico jumped conferences, going from the Hawaii-based Pacific West to the Texas-based Heartland beginning next year: MSU-Billings Conference change.(Link now works)

Based on that article, Billings did have discussions with the NCC. Because of the distance (>500 miles), UND teams as well as other NCC teams would probably have to fly or miss a lot of class time. Maybe if U of Mary would have joined the NCC, MSU-Billings would get more serious consideration, as those two could have been travel partners.

In order for the NCC to have any stability, the key school to keep “happy” is UNO. A Mich Tech/N Mich combo, or Billings addition would actually make a move to the MIAA more likely for Omaha (except maybe Omaha might like hockey-playing schools, but then USD and Augustana would not be keen on Upper Michigan travel). The school Omaha (and USD and Augustana) has to want is Neb-Kearney. Even though there have been numerous denials of NCC interest by Kearney, the RMAC is getting less friendly to Kearney. Its Kansas rival, Fort Hays State, left for the MIAA and the RMAC will be adding Dixie State in Southwest Utah, worsening Kearney’s travel situation. A UNK addition to the NCC would secure its southern flank, while most other schools mentioned (except a Twin Cities school like St. Thomas) would be divisive to the NCC.

Edited March 31, 2005 by star2city

[UND92,96]

Just recently MSU-Billings and Western New Mexico jumped conferences, going from the Hawaii-based Pacific West to the Texas-based Heartland beginning next year: MSU-Billings Conference change.(Link now works)

Based on that article, Billings did have discussions with the NCC. Because of the distance (>500 miles), UND teams as well as other NCC teams would probably have to fly or miss a lot of class time. Maybe if U of Mary would have joined the NCC, MSU-Billings would get more serious consideration, as those two could have been travel partners.

In order for the NCC to have any stability, the key school to keep

[RD17]

I think the issue of expansion just got much more critical with the news that the NSIC is expanding back to 10 schools. I'm especially concerned about basketball scheduling. When you consider that the eight current NSIC schools will each be adding four conference games to their schedules, that leaves a total of 32 less non-conference games for those teams to play! Not to mention that everyone's favorite independent schedule-filler (Upper Iowa) will also be unavailable. Will the NCC have to consider playing three head to head games in the conference just to fill out schedules?