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UND moving up?


Hansel

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It's always amusing when the Prestone drinkers trot out "academics". I suppose the Stream Yellow crowd have been deluded into thinking that one D-1AA game has given the place any shred of credibility outside of the worlds of pig racing, tractor appraisal and outhouse decorating. Then again, I presume those rose-colored glasses are good preparation for the flood of red ink that the athletic department will start to spray.

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It's always amusing when the Prestone drinkers trot out "academics". I suppose the Stream Yellow crowd have been deluded into thinking that one D-1AA game has given the place any shred of credibility outside of the worlds of pig racing, tractor appraisal and outhouse decorating. Then again, I presume those rose-colored glasses are good preparation for the flood of red ink that the athletic department will start to spray.

The correct spelling is DI-AA, typo-boy. ???

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Someone say "academics"?

UND

Freshmen Academic Profile

Average SAT: Not Reported

ACT Composite Range (25-75%): 20-26

Average ACT: 23

Average High School GPA: 3.36

Students in top 10% of HS class: 16%

Students in top 50% of HS class: 73%

Students from Public School: 92%

Selectivity-81

NDSU

Freshmen Academic Profile

Average SAT: Not Reported

SAT I - Verbal Range (25-75%): 500-630

SAT I - Math Range (25-75%): 530-660

ACT Composite Range (25-75%): 20-26

Average ACT: 23

Average High School GPA: 3.37

Students in top 10% of HS class: 18%

Students in top 50% of HS class: 74%

Students from Public School: 93%

Selectivity-84

Delta St

Freshmen Academic Profile

Average SAT: Not Reported

ACT Composite Range (25-75%): 17-21

Average ACT: 19

Students in top 50% of HS class: 57%

Selectivity60

Valparaiso

Freshmen Academic Profile

Average SAT: 1168

SAT I - Verbal Range (25-75%): 520-640

SAT I - Math Range (25-75%): 530-650

Average Verbal SAT: 580

ACT Composite Range (25-75%): 23-29

Average ACT: 26

Students in top 10% of HS class: 36%

Students in top 50% of HS class: 90%

Students from Public School: 80%

Selectivity-85

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OK....so some of us may not have gotten into Valpo.... :(

And most of us would not want to go to Delta State.... ???

I do have to say that I think Delta State could probably put the whoop on Valpo as could UND.....I mean good grief.....the poor kids didn't get across mid field!! Next week against UNC will be a real fight it out game....and I am looking forward to it.

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While the educational facts listed in somebison's post are interesting, you should keep in mind a few other things. First off, North Dakota's educational system is much better than Mississippi's and the South's for that matter (we can read). Secondly, it's not hard to be considered in the top ten of your class at a North Dakota high school. The students are all around smarter, but that doesn't mean these kids are being held to higher standards. Here's what I mean. Many of the ND schools will have mulitple kids finish with 4.0 and #1 in their class. Let's say it's 3 out of 10. Yes that's 30% of the class, but they all are considered as finishing in the top 10%. Basically, the teachers aren't challenging enough and it makes ND look better. Bigger schools tend to have a more even curve, because a very small percentage will finish #1. Finsihing #1 at very large schools normally will grant you some darn good scholarships to better academic universities. While ND kids tend to stay home.

Basically, the overall population of students is smarter in ND, but the #'s do get inflated because of small high schools and the kids staying. Plus only two big time (for ND) universities.

Ask yourself this. If you were #1 in your class in Mississippi, do you go to Delta St. or Mississippi St. or Ole Miss, or Valpo for that matter?

More power to those institutions of higher learning with great big time sports. But they don't go hand in hand. Look at Notre Dame with their higher standards. FB is losing its luster, because they can't get recruits.

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Delta state is an outstanding academic instiution.

Yeah, it's not like they are accredited or anything...

And it's not like they offer up to a doctorate degree...

And it's not like they are accredited in the same programs as NDSU

NDSU-regional accred. (NCA)

Delta-regional accred. (SACS)

Delta accred: Art, Counseling, Family & Consumer Science, Music, Nursing, Nursing Education, Teacher Education

NDSU accred: Art, Counseling, Music, Nursing, Nursing Education, Teacher Education

Note: I only listed programs that I know both schools share. I found this information in a publication put out by the American Council on Education called Accredited Institutions of Postsecondary Education, and I tried to create a link to their website, but apparently something is down.

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At the game on Sat I stood next to (in one of the endzone walkways) the Delta St offensive coordinators wife and talked to her quite a bit. She was a great lady, and had some interesting things to say about the academic situation at Delta. First off, their enrollment is decling rapidly according to her, now, she thought, just below 5000. That number is down from what she though was 7000ish not that far into the past. The most alarming thing she had to say, their football team is struggling to recruit because so many kids cannot meet the minimum admission, of 18!! She said that is was a really big issue for them. That literally shocked me, it puts into perspective just how bad the schools must be in the Mississippi and its surrounding states. After she said that, I found myself thinking about how lucky I have been to have grown up in the upper Midwest where the school systems are nationally noted as amongst the best and not paying too close attention to the game. Sad really, not a joking matter.

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Having lived in South Carolina for several years I would have to say there is a huge disparity among schools in the South. Some are sub par, and some are among the finest in the country. This is true in elementary, middle and high schools and well as in higher ed. I saw public schools in Greenville, SC that would surpass any in North Dakota and I saw public schools that were a disaster. Much of it based on the economics of the neighborhoods.

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At the game on Sat I stood next to (in one of the endzone walkways) the Delta St offensive coordinators wife and talked to her quite a bit. She was a great lady, and had some interesting things to say about the academic situation at Delta. First off, their enrollment is decling rapidly according to her, now, she thought, just below 5000. That number is down from what she though was 7000ish not that far into the past. The most alarming thing she had to say, their football team is struggling to recruit because so many kids cannot meet the minimum admission, of 18!! She said that is was a really big issue for them. That literally shocked me, it puts into perspective just how bad the schools must be in the Mississippi and its surrounding states. After she said that, I found myself thinking about how lucky I have been to have grown up in the upper Midwest where the school systems are nationally noted as amongst the best and not paying too close attention to the game. Sad really, not a joking matter.

I think you all are missing something, it's more than just the schools. It's the whole enivronment! Where I live and teach in the south acedemic standards and scores are at least as good if not better than most or all of ND. The reason is that the area has a very diverse population of people that mainly put a lot of value in education. These are people from Canada, India, China, the Midwest, and the East coast of the United states. In the district I work in seveal other schools get equal amount or more funding in some cases than the school I work at and yet the acedemics at the schools are terrible. The problem is really about individuals and individual families placing a high value on education and it seems many in the south do not.

Take a rural school in ND that produces good students and sends many of them on to college. Now place that same school and teachers in Mississippi, do you think it would produce the same caliber of students. I doubt it, their would be a few but the school would be considered under funded and thats why the students don't learn.

Do you think students at the University of North Dakota can't get as good an educations as someone that attends LSU?

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i think we should take care when criticizing the mississippi educational system

-neither ndsu nor UND hold a candle to ole miss as an institution

-most of mississippi's best and brightest still go back east for an education, same as in north dakota, we just stop in grand forks or fargo

-there is extreme poverty, the kind that make horror documentaries, in most of mississippi

-there is still a class system

most importantly, we need to think of Delta State as a Mayville or Valley City State, mississippi has a few more people than north dakota and thus larger schools and a bigger pool of football players to draw from, but there are a lot of students that aren't prepared or don't want to attend a more rigorous institution

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Mississippi State, Ole Miss (U of Mississippi), and the University of North Dakota all appear in US News and World Report's "Tier 3" category. That's not bad company.

NDSU shows up a tier down in Tier 4.

Valparaiso and Delta State don't appear (quick scan, may have missed) on the US News lists. (Personally, I think US News is a popularity contest system. Princeton Review is a better choice, but I needed a resonably objective source.)

bisonguy: I think you missed my point. Level of NCAA (National Collegiate Athletics Association) level of play does not translate to academic prowess.

What surprises me is that NDSU fans have so much time to worry about a (quote: Fargo Forum) "minor league" (end quote) football program like UND. Shouldn't Bison fans be over on Bisonville discussing glorious battles against no scholarships Valpo and NAIA Montana Tech and DII Carson-Newman?

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no its not, but for those of us who have graduate degrees statistics, us news and world report isn't the best measure

it's also not to say that UND, or ndsu for that matter, don't have degree programs or lines of research that are far superior to those in mississippi

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no its not, but for those of us who have graduate degrees statistics, us news and world report isn't the best measure

it's also not to say that UND, or ndsu for that matter, don't have degree programs or lines of research that are far superior to those in mississippi

Um, I am not trying to flame, but what about having a graduate degree makes someone smarter when it comes to looking at the US News and World Report?

It's just about understanding how their formula is calculated

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