2017 Season

[Siouxperman8]

I don't know why people think the cupboard should be full of backups that are ready to be starters.  Bubba has had 3 full recruiting classes.  Those players are True Fr, RS FR and Sophomores.   Most of the Fr and RS Fr certainly are going to be challenged in a full time starting role.   Some would be ready to start but not as many as we have needed.  There are also some Juniors he was able to recruit in the short time he had after getting hired.

There is no way we are getting all of the recruits we want right now so we are going to be thin at most positions.   We need to start winning and build the program to do that.  This year is a tough setback in that progression

[Midwestern Hawk]

1 minute ago, fightingsioux4life said:

Moving up to Division I in all sports means we cannot treat every non-hockey sport as a red-headed stepchild anymore. If we want to do that, we should move down to D-II and join the NSIC. Then we'll get to watch our team in the Thursday Night NSIC Game of the Week on MidcoSN!!! 

Kennedy has a plan to move UND way up the collegiate ladder and it all revolves around football and mens basketball.  I have faith that he will get it done and 5 and 10 years from now NDSU will be looking back fondly on the glory days.

[fightingsioux4life]

2 minutes ago, shep said:

Same thing was happening in the 80's. Moo U killed us and won natty's. 

90's rolled around and it took time but by the end of them, UND was beating the Bison. 

IT WILL HAPPEN AGAIN!!

The parallels are very striking:

1986: NDSU is a D-II power; UND is in the toilet and has just made a coaching change.

2013: NDSU is an FCS power; UND Is in the toilet and has just made a coaching change.

We weren't going to the playoffs and beating NDSU four years into the Roger Thomas era and you cannot expect that to happen this time either. But if we keep plugging away, we'll get there.

[geaux_sioux]

19 minutes ago, MafiaMan said:

Says the guy who snarked on Hakstol for not winning national hockey championships when the same injury bug hit his teams, but I digress...

To be fair, they had some unreal teams that were healthy and laid eggs in the frozen four...... but they did actually get there. Can't choke in the semis if you never get there.

[Midwestern Hawk]

1 minute ago, Siouxperman8 said:

I don't know why people think the cupboard should be full of backups that are ready to be starters.  Bubba has had 3 full recruiting classes.  Those players are True Fr, RS FR and Sophomores.   Most of the Fr and RS Fr certainly are going to be challenged in a full time starting role.   Some would be ready to start but not as many as we have needed.  There are also some Juniors he was able to recruit in the short time he had after getting hired.

There is no way we are getting all of the recruits we want right now so we are going to be thin at most positions.   We need to start winning and build the program to do that.  This year is a tough setback in that progression

This is correct.  Their is a huge hole in the roster when you get to juniors and senior and we are paying the price for that this season.

[geaux_sioux]

12 minutes ago, MafiaMan said:

 Not all of his teams made Frozen Fours...

The fact of the matter is that UND football has become almost irrelevant in the discussion of D1 football in the state.  And that's an image problem that will not be fixed overnight.  I don't care if the excuse is injuries or the Alerus imploding...another NDSU national title this season will only add to the perception.

Weren't very irrelevant last year when we got that seed then choked. That makes what has transpired this year sting. This was a year we needed to prove last year wasn't a flook, and the wheels fell off.

[Midwestern Hawk]

11 minutes ago, shep said:

I agree with that last sentence, but that's going to be true irrespective of UND's record. If "they" win another, it's a kick in the ass to UND. No doubt about it.

GO JMU!

NDSU does not have the top end talent to win it this season.  Mcclimon will end up being Rocky Hager II.

[MafiaMan]

5 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

Moving up to Division I in all sports means we cannot treat every non-hockey sport as a red-headed stepchild anymore. If we want to do that, we should move down to D-II and join the NSIC. Then we'll get to watch our team in the Thursday Night NSIC Game of the Week on MidcoSN!!! 

Your head is stuck in the sand if you think UND has ignored football or basketball lately.

[shep]

1 minute ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

NDSU does not have the top end talent to win it this season.  Mcclimon will end up being Rocky Hager II.

I hope so, but I NEVER count them out. 

Homefield will get them a LONG way.

[fightingsioux4life]

4 minutes ago, Siouxperman8 said:

I don't know why people think the cupboard should be full of backups that are ready to be starters.  Bubba has had 3 full recruiting classes.  Those players are True Fr, RS FR and Sophomores.   Most of the Fr and RS Fr certainly are going to be challenged in a full time starting role.   Some would be ready to start but not as many as we have needed.  There are also some Juniors he was able to recruit in the short time he had after getting hired.

There is no way we are getting all of the recruits we want right now so we are going to be thin at most positions.   We need to start winning and build the program to do that.  This year is a tough setback in that progression

I just think people are frustrated and anxious to have a winner in the Alerus Center again. They think of the period between 2001 and 2005 and the powerhouse teams we had and all the noise and chaos we would unleash on our opponents. And they are sick and tired of hearing about NDSU 24/7/365. And I don't blame them for that. I feel the same way. But if we step back as fans and give Bubba and company more time to build the team and program they want to build, it will make this season a little easier to swallow.

Good things come to those who wait. And they will come to us. #daybyday

[Midwestern Hawk]

Just now, fightingsioux4life said:

I just think people are frustrated and anxious to have a winner in the Alerus Center again. They think of the period between 2001 and 2005 and the powerhouse teams we had and all the noise and chaos we would unleash on our opponents. And they are sick and tired of hearing about NDSU 24/7/365. And I don't blame them for that. I feel the same way. But if we step back as fans and give Bubba and company more time to build the team and program they want to build, it will make this season a little easier to swallow.

Good things come to those who wait. And they will come to us. #daybyday

I seem to remember a year in those glory years when the wheels fell off.  Bubba has to get this train back on the tracks but I have faith he will.

[fightingsioux4life]

3 minutes ago, MafiaMan said:

Your head is stuck in the sand if you think UND has ignored football or basketball lately.

You are right, we are promoting those programs more than we used to. And that is a great thing. I just don't want to have a great hockey program and mediocre D-I programs. I don't think Kennedy will allow that to happen.

[Midwestern Hawk]

Just now, fightingsioux4life said:

You are right, we are promoting those programs more than we used to. And that is a great thing. I just don't want to have a great hockey program and mediocre D-I programs. I don't think Kennedy will allow that to happen.

He has a vision of what UND will become and the plan includes very relevant athletics and that can't happen without great football and men's basketball.  2025 UND will have more than 20,000 students.

[fightingsioux4life]

4 minutes ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

I seem to remember a year in those glory years when the wheels fell off.  Bubba has to get this train back on the tracks but I have faith he will.

2002 was an injury-plagued year that ended 5-6. 2005 was a great season ruined by us blowing a 19-0 4th quarter lead vs. Omaha in the Alerus Center and losing 20-19. And then having to watch Grand Valley Freaking State win it all again. It was almost more than I could stomach. 

In contrast, 2001, 2003 and 2004 were great years. 

[Cratter]

40 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

Yeah, having more than half the starting lineup on the shelf is the exact same thing as having a handful of injuries total. Thanks for clearing that up. 

FCS allows 63 full scholarships. Mens Hockey 18.

When UND had 13 "starters out" it is equivalent to 3.7 "out of the lineup" hockey players.

In 2016, When UND won the natty didn't they lose their starting goalie, backup was injured or sick, and down to a walkon third string goalie. Add in world juniors, its not uncommon for UND hockey to be without 3-4 players.

[Cratter]

Just now, fightingsioux4life said:

You meant 2016, right?

Ha yeah. Edited.

[Midwestern Hawk]

3 minutes ago, Cratter said:

FCS allows 63 full scholarships. Mens Hockey 18.

When UND had 13 "starters out" it is equivalent to 3.7 "out of the lineup" hockey players.

In 2016, When UND won the natty didn't they lose their starting goalie, backup was injured or sick, and down to a walkon third string goalie. Add in world juniors, its not uncommon for UND hockey to be without 3-4 players.

13 starters out in football is more than having 3-4 players out in hockey.    Now it is more than 13 starters out.

[Cratter]

Just now, Midwestern Hawk said:

13 starters out in football is more than having 3-4 players out in hockey.  

Not when you're able to give 63 scholarships out. You're able to build a lot more depth. 

And they're not all "starters." They were "one time starters" essentially making everyone on the team at some point a starter. 

[fightingsioux4life]

4 minutes ago, Cratter said:

Not when you're able to give 63 scholarships out. You're able to build a lot more depth. 

And they're not all "starters." They were "one time starters" essentially making everyone on the team at some point a starter. 

The point is that Hakstol took many healthy, loaded teams to the Frozen Four and had an abysmal 1-7 record. That is totally different than what FB is dealing with right now.

[Midwestern Hawk]

2 minutes ago, Cratter said:

Not when you're able to give 63 scholarships out. You're able to build a lot more depth. 

And they're not all "starters." They were "one time starters" essentially making everyone on the team at some point a starter. 

Football is much different than hockey.  There is no USHL, the comparable USHL in football is done in-house.  Apple and oranges.  When the hockey players arrive in Grand Forks they are ready to play.  Not so in football with very few exceptions.

[Midwestern Hawk]

1 minute ago, fightingsioux4life said:

The point is that Hakstol took many healthy, loaded teams to the Frozen Four and had an abysmal 1-6 record. That is totally different than what FB is dealing with right now.

Haksto'ls teams choked.  Several years UND was easily the best team, but it is not remembered that way because of the nature of college hockey.  If they are seven game series like the NHL, UND has several more nattys over the last couple of decades.

[Cratter]

2 minutes ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

Football is much different than hockey.  There is no USHL, the comparable USHL in football is done in-house.  Apple and oranges.  When the hockey players arrive in Grand Forks they are ready to play.  Not so in football with very few exceptions.

That is true. But my point is that is sort of built "into the system" with so many players on a football team. In hockey everyone "on the sidelines" plays substantial amount of minutes. In football, its far less, and that's why they redshirt in football and not in hockey.

[Midwestern Hawk]

Just now, Cratter said:

That is true. But my point is that is sort of built "into the system" with so many players on a football team. In hockey everyone "on the sidelines" plays substantial amount of minutes. In football, its far less, and that's why they redshirt in football and not in hockey.

The reality is in football you really need a solid 46 players,  2-deep and a punter and kicker.  This season at ILB the injuries go further than 2 deep, same at some DB positions.  A better hockey comparison would be if you had the top 5 defenseman all out because of injury would be pretty decimating to most hockey teams.  

[Milford torgerson]

29 minutes ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

He has a vision of what UND will become and the plan includes very relevant athletics and that can't happen without great football and men's basketball.  2025 UND will have more than 20,000 students.

I like your ambition and vision but where are another 10000 students going to come from?

[Cratter]

10 minutes ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

The reality is in football you really need a solid 46 players,  2-deep and a punter and kicker.  This season at ILB the injuries go further than 2 deep, same at some DB positions.  A better hockey comparison would be if you had the top 5 defenseman all out because of injury would be pretty decimating to most hockey teams.  

Quote

UND, already without freshman goalie Matej Tomek, lost its other scholarship goalie, Cam Johnson, to what appeared to be a groin injury during the second period against the Beavers. North Dakota finished the game with junior walk-on Matt Hrynkiw.

UND also lost forward Joel Janatuinen in the first period and played without injured Shane Gersich, Christian Wolanin, Colten St. Clair and Danys Chartrand.

First-year head coach Brad Berry admitted that he's never seen a team with so many injuries so early in the season.

http://www.grandforksherald.com/sports/und-hockey/3863159-mens-hockey-injuries-become-concern-und-during-fridays-tie-bsu

The amount of players injured on this college hockey team is the same as this UND football team when comparing roster sizes.