Non-UND FCS Thread

[darell1976]

7 hours ago, fightingsioux4life said:

You and I both know that NDSU will not be playing for national titles in FBS. I don't think finishing 6-5 and going to the Whatever.com bowl is going to appeal to your fan base.

No team from the MAC, or Sun Belt is going to be in the FBS “playoffs”, so that would mean unless NDSU joins the Big 10 or Big 12, there will be no chance at a National Title. I am sure by the time they move up there will be more Bowl games so the 5-7 and 4-8 teams can play in one. Unless there is another tier in the FBS it’s not worth moving up especially with our location.

[darell1976]

9 hours ago, moser53 said:

Just google growth in FM by the year 2050. As much as 350 thousand  population. Your a smart guy. What do I see that you don't? With that growth they want SU to be like Iowa or Oklahoma State. Why wouldn't' they. The plan is in place .

And by 2050 there will still be no new dome so NDSU can be the Idaho of the FBS. I can imagine how much a new dome would cost in 2050 money? 

[moser53]

4 hours ago, darell1976 said:

And by 2050 there will still be no new dome so NDSU can be the Idaho of the FBS. I can imagine how much a new dome would cost in 2050 money? 

Don't underestimate Doug Bergum. If NDSU being like an Oklahoma State is his dream-goal in his lifetime what will we see at SU that will give clues. 10 thousand  more students  1 billion endowment. Underestimate the will in Fargo not me.

[SiouxVolley]

16 minutes ago, moser53 said:

Don't underestimate Doug Bergum. If NDSU being like an Oklahoma State is his dream-goal in his lifetime what will we see at SU that will give clues. 10 thousand  more students  1 billion endowment. Underestimate the will in Fargo not me.

His uncle Rick Burgum put up much of the money for Great Plains Software, enriching him more than Doug, and was a board member of  UND's Foundation.  His age makes him much more capable to give to UND soon.

[NDSU grad]

14 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

His uncle Rick Burgum put up much of the money for Great Plains Software, enriching him more than Doug, and was a board member of  UND's Foundation.  His age makes him much more capable to give to UND soon.

Rick's his cousin, and it was Rick's dad Al that invested heavily in Great Plains in the 80's.  When Microsoft bought Great Plains Rick was the majority shareholder.  Doug and his two siblings were a close second though.  

[SiouxVolley]

10 minutes ago, NDSU grad said:

Rick's his cousin, and it was Rick's dad Al that invested heavily in Great Plains in the 80's.  When Microsoft bought Great Plains Rick was the majority shareholder.  Doug and his two siblings were a close second though.  

Rick was listed in the top 100 software millionaires in 1997.  No other Burgum was listed then.  The total wealth has probably gone up by 3 or 4 times.  Rick graduated in 1968, so he is much older than Doug.

[jdub27]

On 10/14/2017 at 11:25 PM, Gothmog said:

Again, take an honest look at USD's schedule. Other than WIU and YSU it's not very good. NDSU's wins over EWU and YSU on the road are more impressive than anything USD has done. Indiana State is 0-6, UND is 2-5, Bowling Green is 1-6, and Drake is 3-3 in the Pioneer League.

Sagarin SOS rankings:
NDSU - 219
USD - 159 

Difference in opponent quality is over 10 points/game.

[Gothmog]

3 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

Sagarin SOS rankings:
NDSU - 219
USD - 159 

Difference in opponent quality is over 10 points/game.

That's not the point. As I said, both teams have two good wins and the rest of their schedule is junk. It makes no difference if NDSU's junk is a little worse than USD's. The point is that NDSU wins are more impressive than USD's. That's what matters.

[jdub27]

9 minutes ago, Gothmog said:

That's not the point. As I said, both teams have two good wins and the rest of their schedule is junk. It makes no difference if NDSU's junk is a little worse than USD's. The point is that NDSU wins are more impressive than USD's. That's what matters.

Opponent ranks per Sagarin:
USD
WIU - 48 (64.71)
YSU - 85 (64.03)
Bowling Green - 135 (53.25)
UND - 163 (42.97)
ISU - 228 (37.67)
Drake - 234 (26.65)

NDSU
YSU - 85 (64.03)
EWU - 117 (57.71)
MSU - 204 (39.36)
ISU - 228 (37.67)
Robert Morris - 230 (27.54)
MSVU - 238 (8.35)

Sagarin has EWU as a whopping 4 points better than the Bowling Green team you claim ins't  a good win. Why does it always have to be "Me! Me! Me!" with NDSU fans?

[Gothmog]

2 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

Opponent ranks per Sagarin:
USD
WIU - 48
YSU - 85
Bowling Green - 135
UND - 163
ISU - 228
Drake - 234

NDSU
YSU - 85
EWU - 117
MSU - 204
ISU - 228
Robert Morris - 230
MSVU - 238

Sagarin has EWU as a whopping 4 points better than the Bowling Green team you claim ins't  a good win. Why does it always have to be "Me! Me! Me!" with NDSU fans?

It wasn't a good idea to mention Sagarin Ratings in this discussion:

NDSU 76.13  (#43)

USD    68.15 (#71)

You lose that point.

 

 

[jdub27]

5 minutes ago, Gothmog said:

It wasn't a good idea to mention Sagarin Ratings in this discussion:

NDSU 76.13  (#43)

USD    68.15 (#71)

You lose that point.

What in the hell does that have to do with who currently has a better resume? More like you completely missed the point.

[Gothmog]

Just now, jdub27 said:

What in the hell does that have to do with who currently has a better resume?

Sagarin ratings either mean something or they don't. If you can use them to compare the quality of two team's opponents, you can also use them to compare those teams directly.

Sagarin says that NDSU has a better resume than USD, that's the whole point of the ratings. 

[jdub27]

13 minutes ago, Gothmog said:

Sagarin ratings either mean something or they don't. If you can use them to compare the quality of two team's opponents, you can also use them to compare those teams directly.

Sagarin says that NDSU has a better resume than USD, that's the whole point of the ratings. 

Both teams are 6-0.
Sagarin currently has NDSU rated as a better team.
Sagarin currently has USD with a significantly harder schedule to date (10+ points/game).

Resume is based on wins vs. the schedule you've play. Just because NDSU is rated better does not mean they currently have a better resume, the Sagarin algorithm is more complex than that. While there is definitely some correlation between the two, it is not mutually exclusive despite what you may think.

[BarnWinterSportsEngelstad]

38 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

Sagarin has EWU as a whopping 4 points better than the Bowling Green team you claim ins't  a good win. Why does it always have to be "Me! Me! Me!" with NDSU fans?

Arrogance.

[Gothmog]

16 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

Both teams are 6-0.
Sagarin currently has NDSU rated as a better team.
Sagarin currently has USD with a significantly harder schedule to date (10+ points/game).

Resume is based on wins vs. the schedule you've play. Just because NDSU is rated better does not mean they currently have a better resume, the Sagarin algorithm is more complex than that. While there is definitely some correlation between the two, it is not mutually exclusive despite what you may think.

You're really grasping at straws here. The term "resume," as you're using it, is meaningless unless it can be used as an overall rating of that team, and then be compared directly to other teams. To say that a team can be rated higher but have a poorer "resume" in the same rating system is just silly.

 

 

[jdub27]

14 minutes ago, Gothmog said:

You're really grasping at straws here. The term "resume," as you're using it, is meaningless unless it can be used as an overall rating of that team, and then be compared directly to other teams. To say that a team can be rated higher but have a poorer "resume" in the same rating system is just silly.

Both teams are 6-0. One has played a harder schedule. Seems pretty simple to decide who, to this point in time, has a better resume. 

Also, if you use only results from this year, USD is rated #39 (76.65) and NDSU is #46 at (74.83). The main rankings are still showing bias from outside this season. What's going to be your excuse for that?

[Hambone]

5 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

Both teams are 6-0. One has played a harder schedule. Seems pretty simple to decide who, to this point in time, has a better resume. 

Also, if you use only results from this year, USD is rated #39 (76.65) and NDSU is #46 at (74.83). The main rankings are still showing bias from outside this season. What's going to be your excuse for that?

This should be interesting Cotton........

[Gothmog]

Just now, jdub27 said:

Who has played a harder schedule?

Also, if you use only results from this year, USD is rated #39 (76.65) and NDSU  is #46 at (74.83), the main rankings are still showing bias from outside this season. What's going to be your excuse for that?

As I said before, NDSU and USD both beat up on 4 bad teams. It makes no difference if the four bad teams USD happened to have on the schedule were marginally better than the four that NDSU played. What does matter is that the two good wins on NDSU's resume are better than USD's.

[jdub27]

3 minutes ago, Gothmog said:

As I said before, NDSU and USD both beat up on 4 bad teams. It makes no difference if the four bad teams USD happened to have on the schedule were marginally better than the four that NDSU played. What does matter is that the two good wins on NDSU's resume are better than USD's.

I see you not surprisingly completely ignored my 2nd point, but you made up for it by making things up with your last sentence...

Best two wins on NDSU's schedule: 
YSU - 85 (64.03)
EWU - 117 (57.71)

Best two wins on USD's schedule:
WIU - 48 (64.71)
YSU - 85 (64.03)

USD's third and fourth wins are also better than NDSU's third. But I digress.

[Gothmog]

4 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

I see you not surprisingly completely ignored my 2nd point, but you made up for it by making things up with your last sentence...

Best two wins on NDSU's schedule: 
YSU - 85 (64.03)
EWU - 117 (57.71)

Best two wins on USD's schedule:
WIU - 48 (64.71)
YSU - 85 (64.03)

Road win over YSU makes that win better than USD's win over YSU. Again, you can't use Sagarin ratings that way.

BTW - you're now claiming that WIU is significantly better than the best team in the Big Sky.

[jdub27]

11 minutes ago, Gothmog said:

Road win over YSU makes that win better than USD's win over YSU. Again, you can't use Sagarin ratings that way.

You're right, Sagarin is currently assigning roughly 2.07/2.20 points for home field advantage this year. Since YSU is USD's second best win, you need to compare them correctly: Winning @WIU is better than winning @YSU (both team's best win) and beating YSU at home is better than winning @EWU (both team's second best win). Advantage USD.

When are you going to acknowledge the part where the rankings that only take into account this season show USD as better than NDSU?

[Gothmog]

Just now, jdub27 said:

Your right, Sagarin assigns roughly 2.07 points for home field advantage this year. Winning @WIU is still better than winning @YSU and beating YSU is still better than winning @EWU. Advantage USD.

When are you going to acknowledge the part where the rankings that only take into account this season show USD as better than NDSU?

You're fixated on Sagarin, not me. All other polls and ratings also have NDSU above USD. And those I've seen have EWU above WIU.

[homer]

1 minute ago, jdub27 said:

You're right, Sagarin is currently assigning roughly 2.07 points for home field advantage this year. Taking that into account, winning @WIU is still better than winning @YSU (both team's best win) and beating YSU is still better than winning @EWU (both teams second best win). Advantage USD.

When are you going to acknowledge the part where the rankings that only take into account this season show USD as better than NDSU?

He won't.  Cause he has blinders on.  NDSU has been very good this year but based on this year along, eye test or otherwise USD has been better.  

[jdub27]

Just now, Gothmog said:

You're fixated on Sagarin, not me. All other polls and ratings also have NDSU above USD. And those I've seen have EWU above WIU.

Ah, now I get how you're going to get around it.  

I brought up Sagarin because it's an objective measure of SOS, which shows USD with the same record as NDSU but a harder schedule. You are the one who brought individual rankings into it, which I then showed that rankings that only go off of this season have USD as above NDSU.  Remember, you're the one who made the claim that NDSU has a better resume but I've yet to see an objective measure that proves that.....

On 10/14/2017 at 10:43 PM, Gothmog said:

BTW - take an honest look at USD's schedule so far. They've played 2 good teams: Western Illinois and Youngstown. With road wins over two top 10 FCS teams, NDSU actually has the better resume. Bowling Green is a bad FBS team. 

 

[Longtime fan]

36 minutes ago, Gothmog said:

You're really grasping at straws here. The term "resume," as you're using it, is meaningless unless it can be used as an overall rating of that team, and then be compared directly to other teams. To say that a team can be rated higher but have a poorer "resume" in the same rating system is just silly.

 

 

USD 38 your team 28