The case for North Dakota as a standalone name (not a Sioux endorsemen

[CMSioux]

Everything you just mentioned is purely speculative and your opinion only (along with some other posters I guess). Nothing you said is fact. Especially the recruits comment. I think you are blaming the lack of football success on this nickname topic.

I didn't say I agreed with it - my point was this is what we can expect to hear from those that feel it is imperative to have a nickname other than North Dakota. Just to be clear when we see those points my opinion is that it will be fear mongering. 

[bigskyvikes]

Well, I will speak for myself and say that my stance has been consistent from the beginning: I will cheer for UND and proudly wear its nickname and colors whether we are the Sundogs, North Stars, Nodaks, Hawks, Roughriders, No Nickname or Fighting Sioux.

I just think it's better to have a nickname in the long run so we can focus on the true mission of the school again. No nickname just kicks the can down the road. There is no real sense of resolution, and loud mouth PC pandering crowd get that many more years to drag UND's name through the mud as a place that caters to "hostility and abuse" -- their words not mine," because it continues to foster an environment where the old monikers are allowed to live on as defacto symbols in the vacuum that would be left by no nickname.

Now I am not so naive to think that the Fighting Sioux forever crowd won't continue to fill that void anyway for years to come. The difference, however, is that if some sort of new name is chosen, it would show the NCAA that UND has done all it could to fulfill the spirit of the settlement agreement, BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, it would severely preempt and undercut the protestations of the bleeding heart constantly offended crowd that is just licking its chops to use this issue to keep their "cause" and name in the spotlight at the expense of UND's reputation.

I understand your stance, heck I could have written your post for you! But you make it sound like the nickname wanters are wanting a new name because they didn't like Fighting Sioux, but in fact they are choosing a new name because they lost the name, and if it came back (not saying it is) and all good with the world they would dump RR, or the FH choices in a heart beat for it also!

[Hawkster]

I'm still staying with the position that we need an actual nickname.  If we stay with just North Dakota, we will never move on.    White I'm not happy with some of choices the committee gave us, most are still better than no name at all.

[southpaw]

I understand your stance, heck I could have written your post for you! But you make it sound like the nickname wanters are wanting a new name because they didn't like Fighting Sioux, but in fact they are choosing a new name because they lost the name, and if it came back (not saying it is) and all good with the world they would dump RR, or the FH choices in a heart beat for it also!

But those in favor of a nickname won't be doing a 180 if Fighting Sioux becomes usable again. We believe und should have a nickname. Obviously, we have preferences but we still want a name.

Many of the no nicknamers continue to speak of the uniqueness of not having a name and how that is a noble cause. However, they would drop that stance in a heartbeat if FS was on the table.

[scpa0305]

You claim they are speculative yet every single one of them has already happened in the past. Seems like a pretty good basis to assume they could very easily happen or in some cases, most definitely are still happening, going forward.

And not sure what the shot at the football team is about? There were multiple issues, some of the ones mentioned included, but a large part of it was coaching and by all appearances appears to be on the upswing.

Agree 100% and I've inferred the same point a few times.

State facts then. Please give me concrete examples. The hockey team has been recruiting very well, has been playing well, and has scheduled some nice games. All while having no nickname. Everytime I go to the rink the und store is full; in every rink in the twin cities it is odd not to see at least one kid wearing und apparel.

[bigskyvikes]

But those in favor of a nickname won't be doing a 180 if Fighting Sioux becomes usable again. We believe und should have a nickname. Obviously, we have preferences but we still want a name.

Many of the no nicknamers continue to speak of the uniqueness of not having a name and how that is a noble cause. However, they would drop that stance in a heartbeat if FS was on the table.

So would new nickname people! I want no nickname to honor the old name, not to keep using it.

[CMSioux]

I'm sure it's been noted that there are more than 50 universities that don't currently have nicknames - I'm assuming some must have athletic teams and aren't on any NCAA lists. 

[Irish]

The best argument for North Dakota as a stand alone is that it is not Fighting Hawks, Nodaks, North Stars, Roughriders or Sundogs.  The volunteers on the nickname committee are trying to do a very tough job and should be thanked.  The paid consultants, however, should be flogged.

[scpa0305]

The best argument for North Dakota as a stand alone is that it is not Fighting Hawks, Nodaks, North Stars, Roughriders or Sundogs. The volunteers on the nickname committee are trying to do a very tough job and should be thanked. The paid consultants, however, should be flogged.

We have a winner. Drop the mic, shut down this thread.

[82SiouxGuy]

I'm sure it's been noted that there are more than 50 universities that don't currently have nicknames - I'm assuming some must have athletic teams and aren't on any NCAA lists. 

Please go through the list and find them. The only other school I have been able to identify that plays actual college athletics without a nickname is Hollins University. They are a small, private women's college in Virginia with about 800 students. They compete at the NCAA Division III level. They have only had athletics for a limited period of time compared to most colleges. They never had a nickname of any kind, and never had a nickname that got them put on any kind of restricted list. All other schools I have looked at that don't have an athletic nickname don't actually have athletics. Most of them are law schools, art schools, med schools or some other specialty schools.

[CMSioux]

Please go through the list and find them. The only other school I have been able to identify that plays actual college athletics without a nickname is Hollins University. They are a small, private women's college in Virginia with about 800 students. They compete at the NCAA Division III level. They have only had athletics for a limited period of time compared to most colleges. They never had a nickname of any kind, and never had a nickname that got them put on any kind of restricted list. All other schools I have looked at that don't have an athletic nickname don't actually have athletics. Most of them are law schools, art schools, med schools or some other specialty schools.

Here is the link http://www.smargon.net/nicknames/- it was misleading as it came in a discussion about school nicknames but it appears you are correct in that a quick check of a few on the list didn't show any with sports - I wasn't going to go through the entire list.

 

Interesting that "Tribe" was has been brought up and only has one school using it from this list. While it would be a good fit for UND and could easily be used with no Native American references, there is no way that name would clear the liberal watchdog group. 

[dmksioux]

http://baumsaway.areavoices.com/2015/07/25/the-top-5-original-college-mascots/

Here's a link to a school with no nickname. Sounds like they only offer one sport though, rowing. It's #1 on this bloggers list.

[homer]

State facts then. Please give me concrete examples. The hockey team has been recruiting very well, has been playing well, and has scheduled some nice games. All while having no nickname. Everytime I go to the rink the und store is full; in every rink in the twin cities it is odd not to see at least one kid wearing und apparel.

Playing in one of the top hockey facilities in the world will never hurt recruiting. Having the ability to have one of the best payed coaching staffs in the country doesn't hurt. Only competing against 60 other programs wiyh the other two mentioned above in your back pocket definitely helps.

[82SiouxGuy]

Here is the link http://www.smargon.net/nicknames/- it was misleading as it came in a discussion about school nicknames but it appears you are correct in that a quick check of a few on the list didn't show any with sports - I wasn't going to go through the entire list.

 

Interesting that "Tribe" was has been brought up and only has one school using it from this list. While it would be a good fit for UND and could easily be used with no Native American references, there is no way that name would clear the liberal watchdog group. 

I've gone through that list before. I didn't check every name, but I'm pretty sure I checked more than half. Some schools could get away with Tribe, I think it would be a tough sell at a school where there was an active group opposing the NA nickname.

[scpa0305]

Playing in one of the top hockey facilities in the world will never hurt recruiting. Having the ability to have one of the best payed coaching staffs in the country doesn't hurt. Only competing against 60 other programs wiyh the other two mentioned above in your back pocket definitely helps.

I am still looking for concrete examples to support the op's comments.

[homer]

I am still looking for concrete examples to support the op's comments.

The answer continues to be that either Kelly or someone on the committee needs to come out with a black and white answer from the NCAA ragarding their stance with remaining Notth Dakota. That has not been answered and even you cannot for certain give their position.

It has been documented, pretty well actually, in the past that any NCAA sanctions vs UND were hurting sports in recruiting.

[CMSioux]

Documented - did I miss something? Has there even been a recruit who came out and said they did not attend UND because of the Fighting Sioux nickname or related issues? Or was it just hearsay from those with an agenda or coaches who were toeing the administrations line? I suppose you could ask current players if they ever considered not attending because of the name issue. Don't you think it comes down to scholarship, facilities, area of study, the recruiting process, distance from home, family legacy - I could list several more things that probably affect recruiting more than a nickname. 

 

Now I am ready to move on but I'm won't ever be convinced that the only reason we have to move on it political correctness run amuk.

[homer]

Documented - did I miss something? Has there even been a recruit who came out and said they did not attend UND because of the Fighting Sioux nickname or related issues? Or was it just hearsay from those with an agenda or coaches who were toeing the administrations line? I suppose you could ask current players if they ever considered not attending because of the name issue. Don't you think it comes down to scholarship, facilities, area of study, the recruiting process, distance from home, family legacy - I could list several more things that probably affect recruiting more than a nickname.

Now I am ready to move on but I'm won't ever be convinced that the only reason we have to move on it political correctness run amuk.

There is a non UND coach on record stating the nickname was being used against UND. He had no reason to toe any line as he was not a UND employee.

That was when there were sanctions. Again, I am waiting from someone to come out and answer the question of what meets the NCAA requirements per the signed agreement.

[scpa0305]

The answer continues to be that either Kelly or someone on the committee needs to come out with a black and white answer from the NCAA ragarding their stance with remaining Notth Dakota. That has not been answered and even you cannot for certain give their position.

It has been documented, pretty well actually, in the past that any NCAA sanctions vs UND were hurting sports in recruiting.

The sanctions are gone. I was referring to the fact that our recruiting, scheduling, and something else cm said would hurt if we didn't have a formal nickname.

[homer]

The sanctions are gone. I was referring to the fact that our recruiting, scheduling, and something else cm said would hurt if we didn't have a formal nickname.

Has the NCAA or anyone stated that no nickname moves UND away from the Fighting Sioux name? I must have missed that

[ClassB]

Homer, curious who this documented coach is or what he said exactly?

[CMSioux]

There is a non UND coach on record stating the nickname was being used against UND. He had no reason to toe any line as he was not a UND employee.

That was when there were sanctions. Again, I am waiting from someone to come out and answer the question of what meets the NCAA requirements per the signed agreement.

No wonder Mussman couldn't recruit any OLs (sarcasm). I'm still not buying it. Most players and parents aren't going to respect  a coach that  recruits by being negative about other teams.

[82SiouxGuy]

No wonder Mussman couldn't recruit any OLs (sarcasm). I'm still not buying it. Most players and parents aren't going to respect  a coach that  recruits by being negative about other teams.

You will have to tell Dale Lennon that he doesn't know what he's talking about. Lennon is one of the people that said the nickname issue was hurting UND with recruits before the name was dropped. He said that he saw it when talking to recruits that he was also interested in recruiting. It sounds like you would be surprised by how effective it is to go negative in recruiting, just like it is in politics.

[SiouxVolley]

You will have to tell Dale Lennon that he doesn't know what he's talking about. Lennon is one of the people that said the nickname issue was hurting UND with recruits before the name was dropped. He said that he saw it when talking to recruits that he was also interested in recruiting. It sounds like you would be surprised by how effective it is to go negative in recruiting, just like it is in politics.

Dale Lennon lost a lot of respect around here when he trashed the old nickname. Bubba wasn't that stupid.

[The Sicatoka]

Obviously, not much of an effort has been made to rebrand our University in the last four years as everyone waited with uncertainty.

What "uncertainty"? If you mean "will the name be dropped", no. If you mean "what will it be", yes.

However, the cause of that uncertainty, and corresponding no effort put forth, was the legislated "cooling off" period from the ND Legislature that ended on Jan 1, 2015.