Fighting Sioux Forever or National Championship?

[Siouxperfan7]

Kinda ironic coming from someone using the name Siouxperfan...

 

I think I would keep the logo and roll the dice on more success in the long run.  There is no guarantee either way but I feel like getting the nickname back would bring just as much joy as a natty would and then after that who knows what could happen.

 

How is that ironic?  When I started posting on Siouxsports, UND was still the Sioux.  Just because UND retired the name, doesn't mean everyone that has Sioux in their screen name has to do the same.  Reading just a couple posts regarding the subject and you can obviously see my stance on the issue. 

[UND-RedSox fan]

If I was guaranteed that UND would win next year's national championship I wouldn't care if our name was the Fighting Nazis. National championship >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sioux nickname

[The Sicatoka]

If the State of Nevada had banned public displays of the words "Imperial Palace" on signs, would Ralph (the businessman) Engelstad have:

 

(a) taken down the signs from his casino, pouted, and and said I'm not going to rename my hotel/casino because that'll show them! < shakes fist at sky >, or

(b) renamed them, promoted them under the new name, and kept making money off of them. 

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

 

If the State of Nevada had banned public displays of the words "Imperial Palace" on signs, would Ralph (the businessman) Engelstad have:

 

(a) taken down the signs from his casino, pouted, and and said I'm not going to rename my hotel/casino because that'll show them! < shakes fist at sky >, or

(b) renamed them, promoted them under the new name, and kept making money off of them. 

 

 

This is assuming that a logo that has been around for 80 years and a hotel name that's been around for about 30 years are synonymous in everyone's eyes.

 

Also, assuming that being a businessman and college hockey fan are the same.

 

I think they're apples and oranges myself.

[82SiouxGuy]

This is assuming that a logo that has been around for 80 years and a hotel name that's been around for about 30 years are synonymous in everyone's eyes.

 

Also, assuming that being a businessman and college hockey fan are the same.

 

I think they're apples and oranges myself.

Do you mean the Ben Brien logo, the one that was introduced in 1999?  Which means that it was the official UND Athletics logo for about 13 years?  Or the Geometric logo, or the Blackhawk logo, or the Sammy Sioux logo, or the indian head logo from the 50's?  Or do you mean the nickname that also changed with time?  It wasn't always Fighting Sioux, for most of those 80 years it was normally just Sioux.  The Sports Information office started using Fighting in the 60's, but Sioux was the most common use even through the 80's.  So your image of some logo that has been around for 80 years isn't exactly accurate.  Change has been the only constant during that 80 years.

 

Also, the nickname and logo issue are about more than just the hockey team.

[jdub27]

Also, the nickname and logo issue are about more than just the hockey team.

 

WHAT?!?!

[Shawn-O]

WHAT?!?!

 

Drop men's hockey, secure a WHL franchise as REA's primary tenant, name them the Fighting Sioux, and switch to the NAIA for everything else.  Problem solved. 

 

Or here's one from some moron on the name suggestion site:  "Keep Fighting Sioux and play without a division like Notre Dame does..."...ugh, morons...

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

Do you mean the Ben Brien logo, the one that was introduced in 1999?  Which means that it was the official UND Athletics logo for about 13 years?  Or the Geometric logo, or the Blackhawk logo, or the Sammy Sioux logo, or the indian head logo from the 50's?  Or do you mean the nickname that also changed with time?  It wasn't always Fighting Sioux, for most of those 80 years it was normally just Sioux.  The Sports Information office started using Fighting in the 60's, but Sioux was the most common use even through the 80's.  So your image of some logo that has been around for 80 years isn't exactly accurate.  Change has been the only constant during that 80 years.

 

Also, the nickname and logo issue are about more than just the hockey team.

 

Whoa, that was intense. I was referring to the Sioux nickname.

 

This is the college hockey board so I referred to a college hockey fan... simple as that.

 

Despite your efforts, my point still stands that the comparison is apples and orange.

[jdub27]

Drop men's hockey, secure a WHL franchise as REA's primary tenant, name them the Fighting Sioux, and switch to the NAIA for everything else.  Problem solved. 

 

Or here's one from some moron on the name suggestion site:  "Keep Fighting Sioux and play without a division like Notre Dame does..."...ugh, morons...

 

Odds that genius realizes that Notre Dame plays in a conference in every sport except football?  Not to mention there is a strong likelihood they will end up in a football conference in the near future and they only reason they are able to current due it is because NBC pays them $15 million per year just for the football rights.  UND gets $1 million total for 5 years from Midco for almost all sports.  But these are the people who should have a voice...

[Fetch]

What is WHL league ?

[Shawn-O]

What is WHL league ?

GOT ONE!!!!

Haha, it's Canadian major juniors, there are a few teams based in the U.S.

[802Sioux]

Well call me a Flickertail and hang me the banner

[The Sicatoka]

Or here's one from some moron on the name suggestion site:  "Keep Fighting Sioux and play without a division like Notre Dame does..."...ugh, morons...

 

A while back I said:

 

I said long, long ago, when the old name was retired, that people who care about UND Athletics should demand an immediate replacement. Why? Because all we've effectively done is cede the power and control away from those of us who were engaged and paying full attention to a bunch of folks who have at best self-serving motives.

 

 

 

Well, "like Notre Dame" guy proves my point. Not engaged. Not paying attention. 

[The Sicatoka]

This is assuming that a logo that has been around for 80 years and a hotel name that's been around for about 30 years are synonymous in everyone's eyes.

 

Also, assuming that being a businessman and college hockey fan are the same.

 

I think they're apples and oranges myself.

 

Yes, you think that.

No, let me correct that: You're emoting that.

You're letting your emotional tie to two words get in the way of your logical thoughts. 

 

I'm pretty sure a billionaire businessman would set aside emotion and make the logical business decision. 

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

Yes, you think that.

No, let me correct that: You're emoting that.

You're letting your emotional tie to two words get in the way of your logical thoughts. 

 

I'm pretty sure a billionaire businessman would set aside emotion and make the logical business decision. 

 

No, I'm saying two completely different scenarios are not at all comparable to each other.

 

I'm not just pretty sure a billionaire businessman would set aside emotion, I'd guarantee he would.  That doesn't change the fact that we're not billionaire businessmen(single tear) and this isn't strictly about business.

 

Of course emotions get in the way when it comes to college hockey, emotions are what make the game great!

[The Sicatoka]

Yes, but you have to run the business of UND Athletics. 

[Mariucci]

Oh yes, ... keep the name, have to have "post season" uniforms that are never seen on the playing surface in Grand Forks in any sport, and keep getting the "Marco Hunt" treatment by the NCAA. 

 

Oh yes, ... fabulous idea. 

 

 

Folks need to read and understand my signature:

 

The NCAA, the hyper-retentive, hyper-detail-checking group, that micromanages every detail of every event, that made Scheel's Arena in Fargo put "NCAA" stickers over the "Dakota Magic Casino" logos on the cup holders at the seats, did not put Marco Hunt on the ice with UND in Boston by mistake. 

 

The NCAA knew exactly what and why they were doing it. They knew UND pushed for Marco Hunt to be removed from the NCHC approved officials list. They knew Marco Hunt wasn't happy about it. So what did the NCAA do? They put Marco Hunt on the ice with UND as the game official for a national semifinal. 

 

That was no mistake.

 

That was a message from the NCAA to the UND saying pick a nickname so we don't have to keep hearing the "S" word, or you'll keep getting "the Marco Hunt treatment" from us.

 

Conspiratorial? Sure. But the NCAA doesn't make "mistakes" like that in championships. They send messages. 

You sound like Republicans in Texas who are somehow convinced the Feds are coming after them.  If you think rationally you would see that your theory is insane.  

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

Yes, but you have to run the business of UND Athletics. 

 

No, I don't.

[The Sicatoka]

You sound like Republicans in Texas who are somehow convinced the Feds are coming after them.  If you think rationally you would see that your theory is insane.  

 

1. No politics on this site. (See: Forum Terms and Rules below)

 

2. The NCAA will never do overtly what it can accomplish tacitly. 

[The Sicatoka]

No, I don't.

 

Touche. 

 

But someone does, and I support the business of UND Athletics. 

[OshieRoll]

Touche. 

 

But someone does, and I support the business of UND Athletics. 

 

If its strictly a business decision wouldn't you fight for one of the most popular and recognizable logos in college hockey?  If you want to make this about business and not about the other extenuating circumstances then there is no question that we should have kept the logo because it was extremely popular and it sold well. 

 

Under your scenario businessman Ralph would have most likely sold the casino because it wouldn't be "his" anymore and he might as well spend his money in the exact way he wanted to.  You can't sell an athletic department so it is pretty much apples to oranges like InHeavenThereIsNoBeer suggested.  Businesses change names every day while schools generally don't change nicknames very often.

 

And honestly if you were to compare UND hockey to a casino shouldn't we pick something better or at least more recognizable than the Imperial Palace?  I think we would be more like the Bellagio or Caesar's Palace rather than the Imperial Palace.  I know the connection there is to Ralph but its such a bland name that a name change would probably help it be more recognizable.  Its the casino equivalent to having your team being nicknamed the Tigers or the Warriors.