nodakhoops Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 MSG isn't also used as a practice facility. It is only used for events, like games or concerts. The Rangers and Knicks practice in other facilities. Just like the Wild don't practice at the X, they practice in another facility. The Ralph is not only a game venue, it is a practice facility for both men's and women's hockey. The Olympic rink is a good place to practice when they are going to play a game on an Olympic size rink. But the teams need a place to practice for games on regular size rinks, which means most weeks. How do all of those hours and days of practice time fit into your scheduling model at the Ralph? This is easy. Basketball practices in the Betty Hockey in the ralph. During conference season you work the schedules so MBB is only playing at home when MHcky is not. Both leagues will accomodate that. During conference season Sun-Tues - Hockey practices in ralph bball in betty Wed morning - - men's hockey practice convert REA to basketball after wed night - basketball practice Thursday Men's shoot around in morning in Ralph game at night Friday Men's practice in ralph Saturday - Men's game in ralph Sun morning. - Convert back to hockey for the next week During non conference Conversions take place 1 day prior to bball game so the team can practice. Otherwise they practice in the Betty Any games against mayville st, etc. gets played in the betty D1 non conference in the Ralph MBB would have main locker room in the Ralph and one still in the betty for the non d1 home games. Women's Hockey is always in olympic which is their new home There's your schedule folks...Any other planning need to be done to get this going? Think we got it covered. Quote
niouxsiouxfan Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Chicken or egg? Nebraska, Wichita St, VCU to name a few Facilities will get you coaches and players, which lead to winning. If you want to be a mid-major powerhouse, you have to draw the players consistently. Kids want facilities! IF UND wants to grow MBB, and its fans want to see MBB be successful, this is the easiest, quickest way to get results. I'm not advocating to make REA the main court. Get some games there though every year. Players will come to play in that arena! When we invest, usually we are rewarded. If we just sit back and stay with status quo, we get what we get. I believe UND could aim to recruit to BIG TEN talent that miss out on Iowa and Minnesota, even Wisconsin (think big). Screw competing for UNI, other Dakota schools, even other Big Sky schools. Be the program with the best facilities to play at and you dominate Big Sky Conference, and occasionally get a big name road win. But you have to start somewhere, and address other issues as well... Quote
jdub27 Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 This is easy. Basketball practices in the Betty Hockey in the ralph. During conference season you work the schedules so MBB is only playing at home when MHcky is not. Both leagues will accomodate that. During conference season Sun-Tues - Hockey practices in ralph bball in betty Wed morning - - men's hockey practice convert REA to basketball after wed night - basketball practice Thursday Men's shoot around in morning in Ralph game at night Friday Men's practice in ralph Saturday - Men's game in ralph Sun morning. - Convert back to hockey for the next week During non conference Conversions take place 1 day prior to bball game so the team can practice. Otherwise they practice in the Betty Any games against mayville st, etc. gets played in the betty D1 non conference in the Ralph MBB would have main locker room in the Ralph and one still in the betty for the non d1 home games. Women's Hockey is always in olympic which is their new home There's your schedule folks...Any other planning need to be done to get this going? Think we got it covered. Just a few off the top of my head - You've now eliminated any chance for out of town fans being able to catch both a hockey game and a MBB. You not only have to get the Big Sky to adjust the men's schedule, they have to make sure the women's schedule accommodates it as well since they play opposite each other. You need to address the intramural and youth hockey that relies on the REA for both sheets. Good luck on convincing women's hockey to move to the Olympic and a bigger sheet. Plus someone will need to pay to pay for the upgrades there. Oh and the REA will point to the 3,200 seat addition that they paid for and suggest that maybe they'll consider it once it consistently even gets near full. 1 Quote
bincitysioux Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Chicken or egg? Just playing Devils Advocate............... How many hockey titles has the new REA yielded? Did Coach K go to Duke because of Cameron Indoor arena? How about Gonzaga? They got a new arena in 2004. Were they a marginal program before that? I really think you are overstating the effect "playing a few games in REA" may have on a recruit or especially a head coach. It's a hockey arena. It's not unlike playing baseball in a football stadium. It is capable of holding a basketball game, but it wasn't designed for it. The Kohl Center was designed for both. Big difference. I think a great way to start though, would be for NDSU and UND to work together and make sure that the annual Men's and Women's games are a double header. Hold it in REA one year, and at the Fargodome the next. I guess I don't recall how big their new arena is going to be, but they drew over 10,000 the year they had the men's game at the dome. 1 Quote
82SiouxGuy Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 This is easy. Basketball practices in the Betty Hockey in the ralph. During conference season you work the schedules so MBB is only playing at home when MHcky is not. Both leagues will accomodate that. During conference season Sun-Tues - Hockey practices in ralph bball in betty Wed morning - - men's hockey practice convert REA to basketball after wed night - basketball practice Thursday Men's shoot around in morning in Ralph game at night Friday Men's practice in ralph Saturday - Men's game in ralph Sun morning. - Convert back to hockey for the next week During non conference Conversions take place 1 day prior to bball game so the team can practice. Otherwise they practice in the Betty Any games against mayville st, etc. gets played in the betty D1 non conference in the Ralph MBB would have main locker room in the Ralph and one still in the betty for the non d1 home games. Women's Hockey is always in olympic which is their new home There's your schedule folks...Any other planning need to be done to get this going? Think we got it covered. School might be one thing that gets in the way of your schedule. The teams have to have a consistent practice schedule so that the players can go to school. I'm pretty sure that most athletes are in class some time between 9 and noon on Monday, Wednesday and Friday. That's the most popular times for classes. These are student-athletes and I don't think the school or the NCAA would appreciate them missing a bunch of classes for practice when they are at home. They already have to miss a lot while they are on the road. The women need to practice on the regular rink the weeks they are going to play on regular rinks, which means most weeks they are on the road even if they play home games on the Olympic. Those hours need to be fit in your little schedule, along with their class schedules since they are also students. Now you want 3 different leagues coordinating their schedules just for UND. You want the Big Sky, for both men and women, plus the NCHC and the Women's WCHA setting up their schedules so that UND can pull off your little dream. That isn't happening. For instance, the men's hockey team played at home 4 straight weekends in January this year. Under your plan the men's basketball team would have to play on the road those 4 weeks during conference play, the women's basketball team would play at home the same 4 weeks. I don't see the Big Sky agreeing to anything close to that, and I don't see UND giving up home hockey games selling 11,000 tickets to put basketball in the REA and sell 3-4,000 tickets at a lower price per ticket. Your plan isn't feasible. Quote
Sioux_FF Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Why can't it??? Scheels in Fargo hosts NDSU and Force, Century Link in Omaha hosts UNO and Creighton. Whky will never draw more than 1500-2000 fans a game tops...this year way less. Dress the olympic rink up to 2000 seating and make that their home. it's the perfect size. Why wouldn't you put a sport that can draw 3000-4000 fans a game and potentially more down the road in the REA?? UND suddenly goes from decent mid major facilities to some of the best in the country. We'd be able to compete with MVC schools facilities wise for recruits. The revenue potential is off the charts for this.....why wouldn't UND and REA look into this. You would now have an awesome bball facility complete with suites video boards and the whole nine yards. Guess what you didn't even have to fundraise for it. I changed my mind on this after some thought and now think the best thing UND could do moving forward would be to move all games to REA and MAKE MENS BBALL THE SECOND MAIN TENENT AT REA. Someone with vision at REA should look into this. It's not even that big a risk considering men's bball already showed it could draw 4000 in REA in 03. I bet a lot of casual fans would hop on the bandwagon. a couple 1000 extra people at games is a lot of $$$ not to think about. One thing that you haven't figured in is the cost to convert, and the time needed. It takes at least 4-6 hours with a good size crew of people. And then about the same to convert back. It isn't cheap to make that conversion. They have 2 layers that go down on the ice, then put together the basketball floor, add the baskets, etc. If you're putting 10,000 in the seats it is probably worth it. I don't know if it is financially for 4,000. When we were in Omaha for the hockey series, we took in the Saturday afternoon Mens basketball game between Creighton and Georgetown. Over 17,000 in attendance at Century Link for the 1:00 pm MBB game. With the Omaha - UND MHockey game at 7:00 pm. We talked to some locals and asked about the conversion. They said the arena staff can make the complete basketball to hockey conversion in 30 minutes. A multi-purpose facility has to have the equipment and manpower to make the conversion that quickly if they want to schedule both sports a few hours apart. Just saying, no reason it couldn't be done at the REA (except maybe the costs of extra equipment and payroll) 17k for Creighton BBall and 10 or 11k for UNO Hockey (at least against UND) probably makes it more financially feasible than using our BBall numbers. Quote
the green team Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Yes, they are marketing geniuses over there. Nothing says "big time" quite like this advertising campaign......... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAURLabQz2I Yeah, because we should really expect production value the quality of a New York City agency...give me a break. Quote
sioux24/7 Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Yes, they are marketing geniuses over there. Nothing says "big time" quite like this advertising campaign......... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAURLabQz2I That is honestly one of the better commercials I have seen produced out of Grand Forks. I enjoyed it! Quote
the green team Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Yes, they are marketing geniuses over there. Nothing says "big time" quite like this advertising campaign......... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAURLabQz2I Your positivity er I mean negativity towards marketing is astounding...I've actually went to some road games and seen opposing schools marketing pieces, perhaps it would surprise you that our production quality holds up surprisingly well...but it must be nice to sit and ridicule from your ivory tower. Quote
bincitysioux Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Your positivity er I mean negativity towards marketing is astounding...I've actually went to some road games and seen opposing schools marketing pieces, perhaps it would surprise you that our production quality holds up surprisingly well...but it must be nice to sit and ridicule from your ivory tower. It's cheesy. But well done, I'll give it that. Quote
the green team Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 I'm sure they need your back handed compliments now. Quote
82SiouxGuy Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 When we were in Omaha for the hockey series, we took in the Saturday afternoon Mens basketball game between Creighton and Georgetown. Over 17,000 in attendance at Century Link for the 1:00 pm MBB game. With the Omaha - UND MHockey game at 7:00 pm. We talked to some locals and asked about the conversion. They said the arena staff can make the complete basketball to hockey conversion in 30 minutes. A multi-purpose facility has to have the equipment and manpower to make the conversion that quickly if they want to schedule both sports a few hours apart. Just saying, no reason it couldn't be done at the REA (except maybe the costs of extra equipment and payroll) 17k for Creighton BBall and 10 or 11k for UNO Hockey (at least against UND) probably makes it more financially feasible than using our BBall numbers. The system that REA uses takes at least 4 hours. They cover the ice with a layer of particle board, and on the ends they have to fit some specific pieces into place to make it work. Then they put down another layer of another material, I don't remember exactly what it is. They have the same issue with specific pieces. Most of the material on both layers are 4x8 sheets, like sheets of plywood. As you may be able to imagine, it takes a while to cover a hockey rink with that many pieces, and they have to do it twice. They have to have most of the 2nd layer down before they can start putting the basketball floor together. If I remember right, the floor itself comes in 4x4 sections that are much thicker. The first 2 layers just fit together, the floor has to be snapped together. Then add baskets, tables, chairs, etc. The Ralph wasn't designed as a multi-sport facility. It was designed as a high end hockey arena, that has some ability to be modified for other uses. Century Link was probably designed as a multi-sport facility. Design features can make changeover much easier and quicker. Some facilities are designed with the ability to raise and lower the floor so that seating can be added to fill the arena space for basketball. It would probably take major, expensive renovations to make the Ralph a real multi-sport facility and significantly cut the time needed to convert between sports. Quote
niouxsiouxfan Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Just playing Devils Advocate............... How many hockey titles has the new REA yielded? Did Coach K go to Duke because of Cameron Indoor arena? How about Gonzaga? They got a new arena in 2004. Were they a marginal program before that? I really think you are overstating the effect "playing a few games in REA" may have on a recruit or especially a head coach. It's a hockey arena. It's not unlike playing baseball in a football stadium. It is capable of holding a basketball game, but it wasn't designed for it. The Kohl Center was designed for both. Big difference. I think a great way to start though, would be for NDSU and UND to work together and make sure that the annual Men's and Women's games are a double header. Hold it in REA one year, and at the Fargodome the next. I guess I don't recall how big their new arena is going to be, but they drew over 10,000 the year they had the men's game at the dome. I'm all for this! Anything like this is a start in the right direction. If they promoted it and packaged it well, there is no reason you couldn't get a packed house. That goes a long ways in showing kids the commitment to building the program. Duke- different era Gonzaga- not long ago, they weren't much. They made run, got behind the program, and have grown from there. Also different area to recruit to. Things have changed in recruiting. Yes, a coach makes a big difference. But better facilities bring in better coaches. Miles went to Nebraska partly because of the facilities. I'm not asking to convert REA to share with Hockey permanently, it's not meant for basketball. Nor is it realistic. But can be done for some games Quote
Cratter Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 When's the last time basketball was in the REA? That Bison game UND won? Quote
bincitysioux Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 When's the last time basketball was in the REA? That Bison game UND won? Yes, January of 2012. Attendance was 7,169. Quote
SWSiouxMN Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Yes, January of 2012. Attendance was 7,169. Was a fun night too, court storming included Quote
Oxbow6 Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 The Kohl Center/WI and the REA/UND is just a ridiculous comparison. Quote
Oxbow6 Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Yes, January of 2012. Attendance was 7,169. Games like this in the REA are worth it and enjoyable from an atmosphere standpoint. Not 1350 on a Tuesday night in mid January vs Southern Utah. 2 Quote
nodakhoops Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Just a few off the top of my head - You've now eliminated any chance for out of town fans being able to catch both a hockey game and a MBB. You not only have to get the Big Sky to adjust the men's schedule, they have to make sure the women's schedule accommodates it as well since they play opposite each other. You need to address the intramural and youth hockey that relies on the REA for both sheets. Good luck on convincing women's hockey to move to the Olympic and a bigger sheet. Plus someone will need to pay to pay for the upgrades there. Oh and the REA will point to the 3,200 seat addition that they paid for and suggest that maybe they'll consider it once it consistently even gets near full. This is all workable in my mind. Yes no MBB Mhcky double headers which I enjoy, but plenty of WBB Mhkcy doubleheaders which might be good for WBB. The goal would be to make MBB the marquee event when MHcky is on the road that week. That way every weekend during conference play their is a marquee sport going on. Leagues schedule games 1-2 years out, so working out schedules with the NCHC and Big Sky won't be an issue, I guarantee that. When you have schedules two years out you plan around things. That is how college scheduling works. Intramural and youth hockey? Why can they still use the facility when time allows? Host intramurals at 10 11 at night....happens all the time. intramural in the olympic and ralph when available...Youth hockey same and everywhere else in town. Icon arena has 2 brand new sheets of ice....Not like Grand Forks would be losing a sheet of ice. The women would move to the olympic, and you would upgrade over time. Right now there is enough seating in there for them. They could still play in the ralph when their games line up with men's weekend's but the weekends MBB is at home they would be in the olympic. They don't have the draw potential MBB does in the ralph. They would still get to play the majority of games in the ralph if you scheduled it correctly. Men's bball doesn't typically have a ton of home games in november and december for MBB so you are maybe talking 2-3 dates prior to January. Lots of available time for Whkcy to still play most games in the ralph. UND is probably the premier school in the WCHA and NCHC those leagues will schedule as UND needs....trust me. I've already stated many times that I know the betty isn't full...This isn't about waiting until the betty is full it would be about giving men's basketball some of the best mid major facilities in the country so they can grow the program to heights never seen before at UND. Quote
nodakhoops Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 School might be one thing that gets in the way of your schedule. The teams have to have a consistent practice schedule so that the players can go to school. I'm pretty sure that most athletes are in class some time between 9 and noon on Monday, Wednesday and Friday. That's the most popular times for classes. These are student-athletes and I don't think the school or the NCAA would appreciate them missing a bunch of classes for practice when they are at home. They already have to miss a lot while they are on the road. The women need to practice on the regular rink the weeks they are going to play on regular rinks, which means most weeks they are on the road even if they play home games on the Olympic. Those hours need to be fit in your little schedule, along with their class schedules since they are also students. Now you want 3 different leagues coordinating their schedules just for UND. You want the Big Sky, for both men and women, plus the NCHC and the Women's WCHA setting up their schedules so that UND can pull off your little dream. That isn't happening. For instance, the men's hockey team played at home 4 straight weekends in January this year. Under your plan the men's basketball team would have to play on the road those 4 weeks during conference play, the women's basketball team would play at home the same 4 weeks. I don't see the Big Sky agreeing to anything close to that, and I don't see UND giving up home hockey games selling 11,000 tickets to put basketball in the REA and sell 3-4,000 tickets at a lower price per ticket. Your plan isn't feasible. I put that together in 5 minutes. I would hope REA staff could put something together much better. I am pretty sure Men's Hockey leaves town on Wednesdays anyways so them practicing at nights Sun-Tues wouldn't be a change on weeks they are gone. Only change they would see would be during non-conference play if MBB had a game on a wednesday night and they converted it Tuesday. They'd have to practice in the olympic or maybe purpor those nights.......It's been done before. I addressed womens hockey and conference issue in my reply to JDUB. You also wouldn't see 4 straight weeks of one team being at home under this schedule plan. Trust me all of those schedule conflicts could easily be worked out with proper planning which all conferences do. Like I said why doesn't UND just try and have UNI, NDSU, SDSU, and 3 Big Sky saturday games in the REA when both hockeys are gone next winter. If they can average 4000-5000 for those 6 games I think they should seriously think about hosting more or all D1 home games at the REA and putting a MBB locker room over there with access to the weight room. The recruiting returns off of a small change like that could be big time. I'd like to see UND make the NCAA tourney 3-4 times in the next 10 years. I don't think that happens by staying status quo with the Betty and waiting around for it to happen. Make it happen by giving MBB facility upgrades instantly that seperate them from their competitors. The ROI potential is their and if you don't see that I don't think you fully understand college athletics. NSDU and USD are building new arenas and practice facilities. Think about how the Betty stacks up against those by itself and then think about how different the REA/Betty as a small game practice facility stack up against those facilities. Quote
bincitysioux Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 If being able to say you play a few games in the REA is such a huge boon to recruiting, you would think they would have played last years NDSU game there, and made sure there were recruits at that game. By all accounts it was Coach Jones' preference to play the game in the Sioux Center. Apparently the guys who do the recruiting don't feel it is as big of an asset as some here do. Quote
nodakhoops Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Games like this in the REA are worth it and enjoyable from an atmosphere standpoint. Not 1350 on a Tuesday night in mid January vs Southern Utah. You only stay status quo by doing status quo. What if that 1500 on Tuesday turned into 4000 on a Tuesday in 5 years after playing in the Ralph takes the program to new heights as I layed out in my previous posts. UND has much more potential then some of you are thinking. UND could be the premier hockey/basketball/football school in the midwest after minnesota and wisconsin. Having MBB in the ralph helps us get there in a big way. Quote
nodakhoops Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 If being able to say you play a few games in the REA is such a huge boon to recruiting, you would think they would have played last years NDSU game there, and made sure there were recruits at that game. By all accounts it was Coach Jones' preference to play the game in the Sioux Center. Apparently the guys who do the recruiting don't feel it is as big of an asset as some here do. You are talking 1 game. I already stated if it is one game keep everything in the Betty. I'm talking 5-6 games to start out with and then potentially having all D1 home games in the REA with MBB having a locker room and weight room access over there. Let's see 1 game in the ralph coach jones - "no, i want to play in our home gym the Betty." all D1 home games in the ralph, new locker room, and weight room access coach jones - "Yes, a million times over!!!" That two very different conversations....try to keep up. Quote
Oxbow6 Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 You only stay status quo by doing status quo. What if that 1500 on Tuesday turned into 4000 on a Tuesday in 5 years after playing in the Ralph takes the program to new heights as I layed out in my previous posts. UND has much more potential then some of you are thinking. UND could be the premier hockey/basketball/football school in the midwest after minnesota and wisconsin. Having MBB in the ralph helps us get there in a big way. Playing BB in the Ralph doesn't get us anywhere fast...a better coach might though. Oops................ Quote
nodakhoops Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Playing BB in the Ralph doesn't get us anywhere fast...a better coach might though. Oops................ I think you are way wrong on that. Go back and read my posts, I pointed out exactly how it helps UND raise the profile of MBB. As for the better coach, if that is your preference I also pointed out exactly how BB in the Ralph helps attract a qualified new one. Some of you are talking like the people who never thought NDSU or UND should move D1. Have some vision and understanding of growth potential. Quote
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