Oxbow6 Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Fuller Betty = better product on floor. REA isn't a BB facility... never will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Fuller Betty = better product on floor. REA isn't a BB facility... never will be. Exactly, when we get a great team on the floor fans will fill the building and when we have standing room only at the Betty for at least one game that is not a DI major or NDSU then let's talk about moving games to a bigger venue. As of now we are nowhere near that problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Although the Beasley/UND vs Boschee/Kansas game at the REA was a blast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 The Sioux Center is one of the smaller arenas in the Big Sky, but is arguably the most luxurious. Is it the REA? No, but there are few arenas in the entire country at any level that match that place. < ding > Winner. Sac State would love to have The Betty right about now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niouxsiouxfan Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Fuller Betty = better product on floor. REA isn't a BB facility... never will be. Then why bring the basketball recruits in and show them it? Telling them, we've played here before and want to again in the future? Only to end up playing at the Betty (I very much enjoy the atmosphere at the Betty) and seeing the discrepancy in facilities? It can be a BB facility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Kansas played at UND because of Jeff Boschee. KU was going to play a "home state" game for Jeff. They did that for seniors at that time. The reason it was at UND and not "the school to the south*"? Jeff's older brother Mike played at UND. * © Travis Brewster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niouxsiouxfan Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Exactly, when we get a great team on the floor fans will fill the building and when we have standing room only at the Betty for at least one game that is not a DI major or NDSU then let's talk about moving games to a bigger venue. As of now we are nowhere near that problem. Nodakhoops made great points above. It wouldn't take much to get the "great team" with the promise of playing there. Its a huge selling point, use it. You would have recruits from other schools wanting to come here and play. Why bother funding Hyslop rehab, or Betty upgrades when everything is right next door? Not every game should be at REA, but start with one, maybe 3-4 if the numbers work. And if everything goes good the first few times, continue and build from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nodakhoops Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 You guys are missing the point here. I fully agree the Betty full is a much better option than a 1/3 full ralph, but how do you get the Betty full?? I think we all agree that comes from winning and consistently winning, right? How do you win and win consistently? You do that with great players, coaches, facilities, and a great university. We can all agree there right?? Well, if UND MBB was the in the REA full time you would have the facility to go along with a great university to attract the recruits and coaches needed to be the Big Sky favorite every single year almost instantly. Can that happen in the Betty....certainly, but not instantly and not every year. You have to sit around and wait for it to happen. Here's some more facts for people clamoring for Betty upgrades. Donations right now are going to Phase 2 of the IPF which is awesome, but that puts anything in the betty on the way back burner at the moment. UND has the opportunity to go from middle of the pack mid major facility to the best in the country in 1 day with no donations other than locker room and concourse renovations and decorations. If you have the best mid major facility in the country you have the potential to be one of the best mid majors. If sitting through a couple games of 1500 people in the ralph the first few years if the worst thing that happens while we get there, big deal. I'd rather do that than sit through 2-3 more seasons like this one in the Betty. REA puts UND MBB on the map instantly with fans, recruits, coaches, alumni, etc. Small time thinking gets small time results = waiting for Betty renovations and for the team to win the conference in the Betty (can happen, but not consistently and as frequent) Big time thinking gets big time results = move MBB to the REA and have one of the best mid major facilities in the county. Big time talent, coaches, Big Sky favorites consistently, NCAA tourney appearances. Having crowds of 4000, 5000, 6000, 7000 fans. Maybe 10,000 for really big games. Makes us even more attractive for a potential FBS run someday (paging SiouxVolley) I guess I strive for UND to be Big time and make the NCAA tourney consistently, not top third of the big sky (bottom this year). The opportunity is right there. I just laid out a map for UND. My donation is ready for the locker room renovation when this happens. Let's go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niouxsiouxfan Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 < ding > Winner. Sac State would love to have The Betty right about now. You are absolutely right. But do we want better basketball program? Games at REA could be huge advantage. Yes there are other things that matter, some dealt with in other threads. As for kids, they want the glitz and glamour, give it to them. We will get the best players and become dominant. I honestly believe UND should be the school to attend if you aren't going to MN or other major. Its close, has good facilities, and great fans. Could have best facilities and no longer competing with anyone close for talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I get your points, but a lot of what you are saying I think are reasons to do this. Again think with vision and growth. See below In my opinion, I don't think that many people are going to show up just because the games are in the Ralph. At least not on a regular basis. I've been told that it is a poor shooting background, which the teams don't like. That is especially true when the upper deck is empty. - Although a small sample size history has shown more people will show up if it's at REA. I stick to the opinion that if REA is permenent home to MBB you get at least an additional 1000-1500 on your season average initially, more as it grows. If UND/REA believed that and got after it they would see the results. As for the background after 5 games and some practices suddenly UND is adjusted to it and it's only a problem for the visiting teams. The reasons it's an issue now is because they play one game there every 4-5 years. Won't be an issue after practice and a few games. Because it was designed especially for hockey, the permanent seats are too far from the court to give an intimate environment, and you can't put in bleachers because they would block the view for the permanent seats. You don't get that feeling of the crowd being right on top of the court that you get at top arenas. -You and I must've attended a different game when NDSU was there 2 years ago. They brought seating down on the sides and ends right up to the court. bleachers on the ends, and small bleachers and court side seats on the side. If you just used the lower bowl to start with I think it would still be a great atmosphere. Not as good as the Betty jam packed, but the goal is grow UND basketball to 5000 plus attendance and NCAA tourney appearances. I think that winning games will attract more people no matter where the games are. I think the Betty can be a very good home without huge costs. Even the Alerus could be a better option. The Ralph is a good option for big crowd games, but I don't see it as a great option for every day games. -I agree winning games will draw fans and winning games is the entire reason you completely move MBB in the REA full time. What helps you win games?..1.Great Players 2. Great Coaching. What helps you attract that?.....Great Facilities, University, etc. I agree the Betty can be a good home, but do you want to sit back while UND plays in the Betty hoping for UND to make the NCAA and that attendance grows or do you want to make it happen right now? -Again, heres the deal. If you dress the REA up so it's the home of UND MHCKY and UND MBB basketball, basketball suddenly goes up a notch for casual UND fans which will help attendance initially. What grows interest and attendance long term is winning and success. Do you think UND would have more success showing kids around the REA saying this is your home, weight room, etc, and the Betty is where we practice sometimes.....the answer to this is a big time yes...UND would kill it recruiting. Probably could start trying to get multiple 3* type talent kids at UND as it would make a huge impression on kids. Also, some people don't think Jones will be here much longer, what type of coach do you think UND could get if REA was the main home of UND MBB? You could make a serious run at some pretty high level candidates. Ben Jacobson is of the market after this year, but prior to this year I think that is the type of coach you could attract assuming you payed similar. We would have no shot a getting a Craig Smith type now, but I bet he would be a guy who might give it a look if the REA was the main home. -No reason with the REA as the main facility that UND doesn't have the top talent in the Big Sky, Summit or wherever it plays which would mean multiple NCAA tourney appearances which means more fans, better recruits, etc. No reason we couldn't be Weber State after 6-8 years drawing 6000-7000 fans in the REA. This whole idea is about winning and building up MBB. One other consideration in the matter. Putting the basketball court on top of ice usually results in lower grade ice, and can result in condensation problems on the floor. Most arenas that are used for both have plenty of complaints about the ice. I know that it used to cause problems with the ice at the Ralph. That was before the system was replaced. I don't know if it would still cause problems. -Again Scheels arena, Century Link center, Kohl center, etc all make this work.....shouldn't be what holds up UND from doing this. This is small minded thinking on an idea like this. Facts are facts, and the fact is UND has more growth potential and ability to do big things with MBB than any other sport on campus. Do you want to sit around playing in the Betty waiting for this to happen, or do you want to make it happen by moving MBB to the REA full time. IMHO it is a no brainer. Shoot, do it next year for 5-6 games to test run it and maybe challenge fans a little by saying if we get 4000 plus average in the building for these 5-6 games combined we will move MBB to the Ralph full time and renovate the Olympic for women's hockey. Do it for NDSU, SDSU, UNI, and 3 Saturday Big Sky basketball games when hockey is gone and I bet money you have an average over 4000. Do you know the revenue impact 6 games of 4000 plus fan would have? The potential for moving basketball to the REA is off the charts good for all parties long term. I wasn't at the NDSU game, but I've been to games there before. It is a pleasant game experience for the fans because it is comfortable. But I don't think it makes for a really great basketball experience. There is too much open space. It is too high with nothing up above. It would be somewhat better if the upper deck were full, but even then those seats are quite a ways from the basketball court. A full house is always going to be good, but I don't see a great home advantage when the place isn't full. You keep saying that they do it in other places. That's true, but it didn't address the issue of bad ice in those venues. I've heard a lot of people say that the ice is bad at Scheels this year. I've heard about problems with the ice at most places where they do both basketball and hockey on a regular basis. Quality of ice is important to hockey for both quality of the games and to prevent injuries. I agree that there is room for a lot of growth in the basketball program. I just don't think that the Ralph is the answer. Take the money you want to spend on the Olympic rink and spend it somewhere else, maybe on the Betty, and create a great basketball experience there. "Thinking big" isn't always the answer when those "big thoughts" aren't the best answers. We are just going to have to agree to disagree. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 You are absolutely right. But do we want better basketball program? Games at REA could be huge advantage. Yes there are other things that matter, some dealt with in other threads. As for kids, they want the glitz and glamour, give it to them. We will get the best players and become dominant. I honestly believe UND should be the school to attend if you aren't going to MN or other major. Its close, has good facilities, and great fans. Could have best facilities and no longer competing with anyone close for talent. REA isn't some magic pill that is going to attract an all-star team. Tradition is big in attracting basketball players. The actual game day experience is big. You can create a much better game day experience for basketball in the Betty than you could in the Ralph. Coaches are the biggest factor in attracting kids. There are reasons that kids go to places like Duke and Kentucky, and the facilities aren't at the top of the list. Glitz can be created almost anywhere. The Ralph is a great arena, but I don't see it as the right answer for basketball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nodakhoops Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 REA isn't some magic pill that is going to attract an all-star team. Tradition is big in attracting basketball players. The actual game day experience is big. You can create a much better game day experience for basketball in the Betty than you could in the Ralph. Coaches are the biggest factor in attracting kids. There are reasons that kids go to places like Duke and Kentucky, and the facilities aren't at the top of the list. Glitz can be created almost anywhere. The Ralph is a great arena, but I don't see it as the right answer for basketball. Think we will just have to agree to disagree. I'll break this down and then i'll leave it at that. 1st - UND has decent basketball tradition going back to the 50's-60's. D1 tradition grows with winning, i've stated how this accomplishes that. Duke didn't become Duke over night and they certainly didn't have the REA to utilize otherwise they probably would've. Not saying UND could be Duke, but i'd take Dayton, VCU, UNI, Xavier etc. 2nd - REA isn't going to attract an All Star team - I somewhat agree but it makes a huge difference. You won't convince me showing the REA facilites vs. the Betty will ever hurt UND in attracting those types of kids. Take a look at the offers page in WIKI to see how many kids UND lost the last few classes to other schools. How many of those might've came to UND if they played in the ralph? I bet a few. The IPF for football isn't the magic pill but ask Bubba if it helped with recruiting this year. 2nd - Gameday experience - are you serious?..doesn't video boards, video screen, spotlight entrance, better concessions, sioux shop, suites, club bars, bigger crowds, winning, better opponents, etc help gameday experience? Tell me where I find some of those in the Betty? I've laid out how winning, bigger crowds, better opponents, dollars will follow. Might take sitting through 1500 in the ralph 2-3 times a year initially, but like I mentioned I would rather do that than 2-3 more years like this one in the Betty 3rd - Coaches are the biggest factor in attracting kids - I agree 100%.....BUT what attracts coaches? Laid that out above as well. REA accomplishes this. As for the ice conditions (which is a legit concern)...if scheels arena has struggled go talk to the people at the Kohl Center and see how they have been doing it for years. Their hockey team has won a national title with that setup, I think they could work around that issue. I've said all i need to on this and laid it all out for UND/REA, if it ever happens my donation along with some others I know will be ready to go for the locker room renovations in the REA MBB locker room. Let's think big time and strive to be great with UND Basketball. Go Sioux! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNDBIZ Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I think permanent seating on the ends of the Betty would make students more likely to show up and use their seats. The crappy bleachers they get make it appear as if the student section is an afterthought for the games. Put permanent seats in, I don't care about the loss of practice space (there are plenty of other courts on campus if they absolutely need more space to practice on). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND-FB-FAN Posted March 5, 2015 Author Share Posted March 5, 2015 "Nodakhoops" made a convincing argument and hit all the key points. If Wisconsin can use the Kohl Center for both MBB and hockey, why not UND? Yes, attendance will not be "full" in terms of the REA full capacity, but the total attendance will still be greater than the Betty will bring and the amenities are much better in the REA. A progressive, ambitious AD would make the MBB to REA switch happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darell1976 Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 "Nodakhoops" made a convincing argument and hit all the key points. If Wisconsin can use the Kole Center for both MBB and hockey, why not UND? Yes, attendance will not be "full" in terms of the REA full capacity, but the total attendance will still be greater than the Betty will bring and the amenities are much better in the REA. A progressive, ambitious AD would make the MBB to REA switch happen. How would they handle scheduling between UND hockey, basketball, ND high school hockey tournament, youth hockey, and maybe concerts. Seems like a lot to put in one building. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND-FB-FAN Posted March 5, 2015 Author Share Posted March 5, 2015 How would they handle scheduling between UND hockey, basketball, ND high school hockey tournament, youth hockey, and maybe concerts. Seems like a lot to put in one building. High school hockey/concerts are very few and far between. Again, UW and Kohl Center host concerts too. The REA can still host concerts and high school events no problem; they have a staff for just REA events! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cratter Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Better team vs better atmosphere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cratter Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Im down for every friday or saturday game played at the ralph when the hockey teams are out if town. I think it might bring in a few extra recruits UND might not get otherwise. Im sure a coach would love to say we play a few key games here every year to recruits. Make the team feel a little more like they are apart of something big at UND. It might just get the ball rolling. I have a theory about new facilities and team performances: UND football at the alerus 2001. UMD hockey won a championship when they got a new arena. Something in the psyche. The ice issue might be fixed with the newer cooling system installed in REA. I think when the Ralph actually makes an attempt to advertise the games it would make a big difference. Gotta spend money to make money. With a new coach and being division one now, UND should try and get a few "mid name" programs to come to town. Get Fox Sports to televise it and get 6,000 people to fill the lower bowl maybe include the game in hockey season tickets? Get that "showcase" rolling (and perhaps to imagine UND actually would win that game...our "super bowl"?). Start with UNI next year. The Ralph paid a couple big name tennis players to come to town. They have the money. I think it might be one of the easiest ways to grow the fan base. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmksioux Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 How would they handle scheduling between UND hockey, basketball, ND high school hockey tournament, youth hockey, and maybe concerts. Seems like a lot to put in one building. There are plenty of arenas to look at as examples of how this could look. MSG manages to make it work for the Rangers, Knicks, concerts, and countless other events they hold. It obviously can be done. The question is, does REA/UND want it done? So far we've seen what that answer has been... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bincitysioux Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I think when the Ralph actually makes an attempt to advertise the games it would make a big difference. Yes, they are marketing geniuses over there. Nothing says "big time" quite like this advertising campaign......... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAURLabQz2I 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cratter Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Yes, they are marketing geniuses over there. Nothing says "big time" quite like this advertising campaign......... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAURLabQz2I You got me there, but they did look like they were having fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdub27 Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Yes, they are marketing geniuses over there. Nothing says "big time" quite like this advertising campaign......... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAURLabQz2I This should make it clear to those who wonder why basketball will never be a permanent tenant in the REA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNDBIZ Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Yes, they are marketing geniuses over there. Nothing says "big time" quite like this advertising campaign......... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAURLabQz2I Could be worse..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 There are plenty of arenas to look at as examples of how this could look. MSG manages to make it work for the Rangers, Knicks, concerts, and countless other events they hold. It obviously can be done. The question is, does REA/UND want it done? So far we've seen what that answer has been... MSG isn't also used as a practice facility. It is only used for events, like games or concerts. The Rangers and Knicks practice in other facilities. Just like the Wild don't practice at the X, they practice in another facility. The Ralph is not only a game venue, it is a practice facility for both men's and women's hockey. The Olympic rink is a good place to practice when they are going to play a game on an Olympic size rink. But the teams need a place to practice for games on regular size rinks, which means most weeks. How do all of those hours and days of practice time fit into your scheduling model at the Ralph? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmksioux Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 MSG isn't also used as a practice facility. It is only used for events, like games or concerts. The Rangers and Knicks practice in other facilities. Just like the Wild don't practice at the X, they practice in another facility. The Ralph is not only a game venue, it is a practice facility for both men's and women's hockey. The Olympic rink is a good place to practice when they are going to play a game on an Olympic size rink. But the teams need a place to practice for games on regular size rinks, which means most weeks. How do all of those hours and days of practice time fit into your scheduling model at the Ralph? Good point. Time to build a practice arena for the hockey teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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