BNSF Train Derailment/Explosion near Casselton

[runaroundsioux]

Since this is a top durum producing area, I'd suggest staying away from pasta produced from crops here.

This is a perfect example of the disinformation and hysteria on the internet I posted about earlier. They grow alot of barley up here too so everyone should STOP DRINKING BEER! The sky is falling!

[sprig]

Since this is a top durum producing area, I'd suggest staying away from pasta produced from crops here.

This is a perfect example of the disinformation and hysteria on the internet I posted about earlier. They grow alot of barley up here too so everyone should STOP DRINKING BEER! The sky is falling!

That was posted tongue in cheek, dude. I have no idea to what extent contaminated soil and water might make its way into crops and food.

The rest of it is fact, and accurate. If you don't mind taking the chance of living with that contamination, good luck.

You realize your posts are on the "internet" as well.

[ScottM]

Things may get a bit more "interesting" ....

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-01-02/bakken-crude-more-dangerous-to-ship-than-other-oil-u-s-.html

[ericpnelson]

Things may get a bit more "interesting" ....

http://www.bloomberg...r-oil-u-s-.html

makes sense... lighter oil should be more volatile. Don't understand how it'd be news to them.

[ScottM]

makes sense... lighter oil should be more volatile. Don't understand how it'd be news to them.

I think the underlying issue, aside from safety, is that if Bakken oil is more "risky" it could make it more costly to process and ship, especially if the insurers start to weigh in and the current shortage of post-2011 tanker cars persists. And that presumes the feds don't start writing rules in that regard, then all bets are off.

Edit:

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303640604579296803233499632?mod=WSJ_hp_LEFTWhatsNewsCollection

[SiouxVolley]

That was posted tongue in cheek, dude. I have no idea to what extent contaminated soil and water might make its way into crops and food.

The rest of it is fact, and accurate. If you don't mind taking the chance of living with that contamination, good luck.

You realize your posts are on the "internet" as well.

High selenium wheat is highly prized in Asia, because selenium is rare in the diet there and ND and SD wheat has high concentrations naturally. Selenium is an essential nutrient at low levels: not as bad as environmentalists like to make it out to be.

http://www.northern-crops.com/newsinfo/milljournal/07seleniumwheat.pdf

[SiouxVolley]

The grain elevators can't get cars to ship our grain up here as oil has taken priority over grain. We need pipelines. Also,we've been able to light our city water on fire since they dug the wells 100 years ago.No big deal in this part of the state.That video was just another example of anti-fracking,anti-oil, disinformation and hysteria. This may come as a shock to some of you but don't believe everything you see on the internet.

A Bakken Express pipeline was cancelled because of lack of producer interest. http://trib.com/business/energy/oneok-cancels-wyoming-pipeline-for-bakken-oil/article_cbdd15d9-25d1-5fd1-8e91-5606435e2aa7.html A natural gas liquids pipeline was just built and crosses the Ogallala acquifer in Wyoming (and effect the acquifer Nebraska is concerned about far more than Canadian crude) because its components are light (natural gasoline) and can seep deep - but nary a word from Nebraska environmentalist that are so alarmed by Keystone.

Railroads allow the oil companies higher prices to refineries on the east and west coasts. Gulf Coast refineries need heavy crude of operate efficiently (from Mexico, Venezuela, and Canada), so Bakken crude is prices lower on the Gulf (and competes with West Texas intermediate, which is similar to Bakken). What would be ideal is a pipeline to the Gulf Coast (were there is a lot of infrastructure), and then tankers that can take the oil to east and west coast refineries. Refineries in California, Washington, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania can't use heavy crude easily and desperately want the Bakken oil rather than Libya's crude. In six years, Bakken production is likely to get to 2 million barrels a day, so this situation will get far worse without pipelines. A pipeline over sensitive water areas can be double contained, unlike railroads.

[sprig]

Selenium is an essential nutrient at low levels: not as bad as environmentalists like to make it out to be.

http://www.northern-...leniumwheat.pdf

There are natural and safe levels of all elements I listed on the surface. Shale, however, has dangerously high concentrations of these elements present in the drilling "mud" cuttings in reserve pits. What is being done with the pit mud should be of concern to everyone. Your "high" is much different than my "high" from the shale.

I'm tired of the state burying the results of their testings and making them disappear. What was begun as a multiple year testing of ground an surface waters, expanding each year, was done for just one winter. When the dangerous levels were found, testing was promptly terminated and the results have been buried, or possibly deleted.

Why do you think the state in the last year added to regulations eliminating reserve pits from drilling operations. Especially if these wonderful high level contaminants are so good for us.

Selenium salts are toxic in large amounts, but trace amounts are necessary for cellular function in many organisms, including all animals.

I don't think that a "some is good, more is better" argument can be made for selenium.

[SiouxVolley]

Why do you think the state in the last year added to regulations eliminating reserve pits from drilling operations. Especially if these wonderful high level contaminants are so good for us.

Oil companies were no longer using reserve pits because temporary "tanks" could be set up that are actually cheaper then constructing the reserve pits. Oil companies actually became environmentalists when the cost was cheaper.

[SiouxVolley]

I think the underlying issue, aside from safety, is that if Bakken oil is more "risky" it could make it more costly to process and ship, especially if the insurers start to weigh in and the current shortage of post-2011 tanker cars persists. And that presumes the feds don't start writing rules in that regard, then all bets are off.

Edit:

http://online.wsj.co...sNewsCollection

There's a whole other class of tank cars that carry highly volatile chemicals like chlorine, propane, and even compressed gases. Bakken oil can be shipped but its just more difficult because those higher rated railcars are just more rare. The railcar manufacturers are going gangbusters producing cars and will have even more business producing cars that can withstand more pressure or accidents. The other alternative is that the oil loaders must degas the oil using strippers or tank sparging (using nitrogen).

[gfNDfan]

SHUTUP! i have a lot of oilshares....Bakken Crude is no more FLAMEABEL than any other oil like corn oil. It comes from ears of corn that are very nice and signify things like AUTUMN and halloween (if its mutlicolored)

WHO IS GOING TO VOTE AGAINST HALLOWEEN? If you do you are probably a communist like the duck dynysty guy that wanted to make SURE we only think 1 way about people! He should have a bumper sticker...1 WAY or the HIGHWAY! (or this one....THANK GOD CABLE MADE ME A MILLIONAIRE BEFORE I GOT ALL SELF-RIGHTEOUSLY RELIGIOUS AND WEIRD!)

#BuyaBIC

[SiouxVolley]

Bet Buffet now comes out in support of the Keystone XL, and convinces Obama to change his mind, because he can now make money by using his polymer to get the heavy stuff from Canada flowing without diluent.

http://www.nasdaq.com/article/buffett-looks-at-pipelines-after-north-dakota-train-wreck-cm316707

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-01-08/unforseen-u-s-oil-boom-upends-world-markets-as-drilling-spreads.html

[ScottM]

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303819704579320971969135440?mod=WSJ_hpsMIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsSecond

[sprig]

Oil companies were no longer using reserve pits because temporary "tanks" could be set up that are actually cheaper then constructing the reserve pits. Oil companies actually became environmentalists when the cost was cheaper.

What is a temporary tank; and if it contains what the reserve pit did, what is done with the mud/cuttings?

[SiouxVolley]

What is a temporary tank; and if it contains what the reserve pit did, what is done with the mud/cuttings?

Here's an example. A company out of Calgary offer huge tanks that can be rented and assembled by one person. Cheaper than building a reserve pit and doesn't require much ground work.

http://www.wateronline.com/doc/cst-storage-launches-hydrotec-mb-mobile-temporary-storage-tank-0001

There can be a another "tank" where the mud / cuttings drops into and then the liguid overflows to another tank.

http://www.bakercorp.com/tanks.asp

[Redneksioux]

Here's an example. A company out of Calgary offer huge tanks that can be rented and assembled by one person. Cheaper than building a reserve pit and doesn't require much ground work.

http://www.wateronline.com/doc/cst-storage-launches-hydrotec-mb-mobile-temporary-storage-tank-0001

There can be a another "tank" where the mud / cuttings drops into and then the liguid overflows to another tank.

http://www.bakercorp.com/tanks.asp

So where does the mud/cuttings and liquid get dumped?

Put me on the side that I believe western nd will never be the same....and not for the better.

[The Sicatoka]

OK. We stop drilling in western ND to preserve that.

But we still need electricity and energy.

So let's generate that in already blighted areas.

So, ... let's build a nuclear reactor in north Minneapolis.

Better?

[Redneksioux]

OK. We stop drilling in western ND to preserve that.

But we still need electricity and energy.

So let's generate that in already blighted areas.

So, ... let's build a nuclear reactor in north Minneapolis.

Better?

Well that's just as close to gf as western nd. And a higher population would be affected potentially by that.

I get what you are saying but I feel our state is selling out for $. Sure the oil is a natural resource, but this isn't what North Dakota is about. Why disrupt the land, water, and air North Dakota is known for? So the state can build a surplus?

Is it worth it? My kids or their kids will never be able to enjoy the outdoors in this state like my parents and their parents did.

[smokey the cat]

OK. We stop drilling in western ND to preserve that.

But we still need electricity and energy.

So let's generate that in already blighted areas.

So, ... let's build a nuclear reactor in north Minneapolis.

Better?

I know where they could pollute the water, store chemicals, burn coal, build a nuc plant. In your backyard. But then it would be a different story now wouldn't it?

[smokey the cat]

Well that's just as close to gf as western nd. And a higher population would be affected potentially by that.

I get what you are saying but I feel our state is selling out for $. Sure the oil is a natural resource, but this isn't what North Dakota is about. Why disrupt the land, water, and air North Dakota is known for? So the state can build a surplus?

Is it worth it? My kids or their kids will never be able to enjoy the outdoors in this state like my parents and their parents did.

3 cheers for RED!

[sprig]

OK. We stop drilling in western ND to preserve that.

Not going to happen, but the technology exists to improve the drilling without leaving the trial of overwhelming contamination to the surface and ground water.

Still no answer to what ultimately happens to the tank held "mud". Is this supposedly in a tank for eternity? Close loop rigs return that "mud" to the shale from which it came. Some companies are using these rigs. All should be.

No doubt eastern ND is benefiting from the bucks the state is getting with the oil exploration. Meanwhile roads are being destroyed in western ND, and so much of this revenue goes elsewhere (GF and Fargo), western ND share is just not enough (most of it should be back here).

I will be moving from this nightmare soon, and will never look back. The countryside is essentially destroyed, and all that will be left is major contamination when this boom is done.

The benefits are much easier to imagine if you don't have to live in it.

[SiouxVolley]

Not going to happen, but the technology exists to improve the drilling without leaving the trial of overwhelming contamination to the surface and ground water.

Still no answer to what ultimately happens to the tank held "mud". Is this supposedly in a tank for eternity? Close loop rigs return that "mud" to the shale from which it came. Some companies are using these rigs. All should be.

In a closed-loop drilling fluid system, the reserve pit is replaced with a series of storage tanks that separate liquids and solids. Equipment to separate out solids (e.g., screen shakers, hydrocyclones, centrifuges) and collection equipment (e.g., vacuum trucks, shale barges) minimize the amount of drilling waste muds and cuttings that require disposal, and maximize the amount of drilling fluid recycled and reused in the drilling process. The wastes created are typically transferred off-site for disposal at injection wells or oilfield waste disposal facilities. The tanks represent an additional cost, but overall, pitless drilling can save an operator money because there is no need to construct a pit, there is a reduction in the amount of environmental releases, and the closed-loop system results in more efficient use of drilling fluid

. - See more at: http://www.earthwork...pits#CLOSEDLOOP

[sprig]

. - See more at: http://www.earthwork...pits#CLOSEDLOOP

Thanks, that is what I wondered, are the tanks part of a closed loop system, and they are, which is good. Which brings back the original comment I made, the change the state made to closed loop from reserve pit drilling was done because they knew that reserve pit mud was full of dangerous contaminants. Unfortunately, when the pits were reclaimed, the contaminated mud was removed and hauled to the nearest high point and buried just under the surface. Not good for the future of the land and water in the areas where reserve pit contents were buried. The pit mud should have been put in the tanks, and back to the shale, like it is now.

[The Sicatoka]

I know where they could pollute the water, store chemicals, burn coal, build a nuc plant. In your backyard. But then it would be a different story now wouldn't it?

Well, most consider western ND, ND's back yard. I was merely pointing that out. (Folks missed it.)

We are oil dependent. How to deliver it: train, pipeline, supertanker? Each have pluses and minuses. C'est la vie.

[ScottM]

So let's generate that in already blighted areas.

So, ... let's build a nuclear reactor in north Minneapolis.

Better?

Ahem. Minneapolis will only allow bird friendly, organic windmills and locally sourced solar panels to be placed in its city limits.