fightingsioux4life Posted June 17 Posted June 17 3 minutes ago, Brim006 said: Exactly. UND campus growth, older complexes getting torn down. The population data is accurate, and shows little to no new residents, so it's just a fact that it's just housing transitions far more than new resident growth. I would love to say Grand Forks is booming just like F/M, BisMan, SF, RC and other similar areas but its just not at all for some reason. Either way, housing upgrades are a boost to the community so that's good to hear. I don't want to "boom" like Fargo; that is too much growth at once. If you are correct, then we will have a ton of new infrastructure and fewer people to support it. I don't like that proposition. Quote
fightingsioux4life Posted June 17 Posted June 17 7 minutes ago, Brim006 said: What's your point? 119 single family lots? That will only account for about 300 people in a 3-4 year span LOL. That's decimal dust. The data doesn't lie...Grand Forks is not growing, and I'm sorry that hurts your feelings and bias. If one older complex is being torn down anytime soon that will wash out this new addition... those people have to go somewhere, so that will push supply and demand transitions in the apartment and housing market. Any new apartment complexes in GF appear to almost be entirely filled by current locals, or UND students, not newcomer citizens. Upgrading the community housing is always a good thing though, so that's a plus. This isn't about my feelings. It just doesn't make sense. We've been hearing about the demise of Grand Forks since before the 1997 flood and yet, Grand Forks is still here. Quote
fightingsioux4life Posted June 17 Posted June 17 37 minutes ago, SIOUXFAN97 said: are brims population numbers wrong? What are his sources? Perhaps he can share a link to where he is getting the information. Quote
Hawkster Posted June 17 Posted June 17 1 hour ago, Brim006 said: Exactly. UND campus growth, older complexes getting torn down. The population data is accurate, and shows little to no new residents, so it's just a fact that it's just housing transitions far more than new resident growth. I would love to say Grand Forks is booming just like F/M, BisMan, SF, RC and other similar areas but its just not at all for some reason. Either way, housing upgrades are a boost to the community so that's good to hear. A year or two back I bought up about GF being stagnant on growth and I got the same reception you did. All estimates are showing no growth or a decline. Now that said I think estimates tend to be a little on the low side, that way when the actual census numbers come in and are higher then the estimates people don't complain because they are higher then estimated even if the numbers aren't great. The thing about Fargo's boom is it's been going on for 30 years. They seem to just keep growing and it's actually even better in West Fargo and Horace. Quote
forksandspoons Posted June 17 Posted June 17 According the the census (more accurate than estimates), Grand Forks grew 12% from 2010 to 2020. The United States grew 7.4% in that timeframe. 1 Quote
Brim006 Posted June 17 Posted June 17 These 10 year forecasted growth estimates look promising. Quote
nodak651 Posted June 17 Posted June 17 1 hour ago, Brim006 said: These 10 year forecasted growth estimates look promising. Source? Quote
Brim006 Posted June 17 Posted June 17 1 hour ago, nodak651 said: Source? North Dakota population forecast for 2025 and 2030 - Aterio Quote
gfhockey Posted June 18 Posted June 18 Slap shots fat alberts closed another local eatery gun is this Buczynski’s Grand Forks? But I guess we might as well give the Big Dogs more tax breaks. Quote
Hawkster Posted June 18 Posted June 18 8 hours ago, Brim006 said: These 10 year forecasted growth estimates look promising. There's a mistake though. Jamestown had 15,700 in the actual 2020 census and the chart shows them at 500 less. Jamestown is most definitely NOT growing, they are simply holding their own, nothing more. Quote
Cratter Posted June 18 Posted June 18 21 hours ago, Brim006 said: Population growth? 4-5 apartment complexes per year? I'm assuming this is just a running inside joke I missed haha. Why would you use made up data when we have real data? Census runs every 10 yrs. The last was in 2020. It grew by over 6,000 people from the previous real data point, in 2010. For current trends that's about 250 or so "housing units needing to be built a year." 40 to 60 units per apartment. Although they keep getting bigger and bigger. You can do the math. From 2010 to 2020 Grand Forks needed a lot of housing per year to keep up with population growth. Made up estimates don't mean anything. We've see that time and time again. They have a bad track record for anyone paying attention. Even if it only grows 3,000 people the next ten years you'll need a at least couple new apartment complex a year to keep up with the population growth....not to mention more single family homes, condos, townhouses. 2 Quote
Cratter Posted June 18 Posted June 18 8 hours ago, Brim006 said: These 10 year forecasted growth estimates look promising. Case in point. You're table can't even get the 2020 Grand Forks Census numbers right. And that's just easy copy and paste stuff. Quote
Brim006 Posted June 18 Posted June 18 21 hours ago, fightingsioux4life said: This isn't about my feelings. It just doesn't make sense. We've been hearing about the demise of Grand Forks since before the 1997 flood and yet, Grand Forks is still here. I don't think anyone has said Grand Forks was going to crumble to the ground. I think most unbiased outsiders are just noticing the obvious stagnant growth it's had despite all of it's peer cities growing and prospering. I love Grand Forks and want to see it prosper, and maybe that means quality over quantity which would be fine too, but the truth is it hasn't really been either. If you want to compare from the 1990s to now. Offical census counts for each peer in 1990 compared to 2020 % growth. Which one stands out? Fargo, ND: 69.81% West Fargo, ND: 159.28% Grand Forks, ND: 18.83% Rapid City, SD: 42.56% Bismarck, ND: 47.32% Sioux Falls, SD: 137.04% Quote
Brim006 Posted June 18 Posted June 18 10 hours ago, Cratter said: Case in point. You're table can't even get the 2020 Grand Forks Census numbers right. And that's just easy copy and paste stuff. How about this one straight from the North Dakota Department of Commerce. Read through their extensive forecasting study and tell me Grand Forks is doing well compared to any of its peers. I didn't come here to argue this point, I came here to try figure out why it's happening and was curious to who had some ideas or solutions. I thought it was pretty well known and obvious Grand Forks was falling short on capturing any of this local economic growth. And judging by these state forecasts, it's only going to snow ball from here. State Data Center | Commerce | North Dakota Region 8 (Dickinson): +39.96% Region 5 (Fargo): +33.44% Region 1 (Williston): +30.01% Region 7 (Bismarck): +20.68% Region 2 (Minot): +15.00% Region 4 (Grand Forks): +3.18% Region 3 (Devils Lake): −8.17% Region 6 (Jamestown): −9.11% Quote
Brim006 Posted June 18 Posted June 18 19 hours ago, Hawkster said: A year or two back I bought up about GF being stagnant on growth and I got the same reception you did. All estimates are showing no growth or a decline. Now that said I think estimates tend to be a little on the low side, that way when the actual census numbers come in and are higher then the estimates people don't complain because they are higher then estimated even if the numbers aren't great. The thing about Fargo's boom is it's been going on for 30 years. They seem to just keep growing and it's actually even better in West Fargo and Horace. Agreed. But I'm not just comparing with Fargo, I'm comparing with pretty much every other peer city within a 750-1000 mile radius that has been growing substantially in population, economy, household income and everything in between all at levels far above Grand Forks. And other than the good ole boys club actively suppressing new development opportunities to protect their own pockets, I just don't understand how or why it has happened. And the future outlook appears to be even worse. 2025 to 2050 population growth forecasts just in ND, from the ND dept of commerce. Quote
Brim006 Posted June 18 Posted June 18 10 hours ago, Cratter said: Why would you use made up data when we have real data? Census runs every 10 yrs. The last was in 2020. It grew by over 6,000 people from the previous real data point, in 2010. For current trends that's about 250 or so "housing units needing to be built a year." 40 to 60 units per apartment. Although they keep getting bigger and bigger. You can do the math. From 2010 to 2020 Grand Forks needed a lot of housing per year to keep up with population growth. Made up estimates don't mean anything. We've see that time and time again. They have a bad track record for anyone paying attention. Even if it only grows 3,000 people the next ten years you'll need a at least couple new apartment complex a year to keep up with the population growth....not to mention more single family homes, condos, townhouses. To be fair, the census is typically the baseline for population estimates yes, but it's pretty well known that the 2020 census was a disaster due to covid. The counts got drug out nearly 2 years late, it forced restarting counts midway through, and the questionable results have created many debates about it's accuracy in many different areas due to it's impact on political representative counts in some larger cities and states. But it's still far better than judging by a new apartment complex or gut feel on traffic congestion. Quote
forksandspoons Posted June 18 Posted June 18 The continual downsizing of the GF Air Force Base has not helped Grand Forks. Less jobs out there means less people living in Forks and working on the base. Impact goes beyond those that work on the base as well. 2 Quote
forksandspoons Posted June 18 Posted June 18 Agristo should be online by 2028, creating around 300 permanent jobs. In the past I had read that for every job, the population base grows by something like 2.5 people. So Agristo alone should hopefully have an impact of around +750 people. That's a win! 2 Quote
jdub27 Posted June 18 Posted June 18 1 hour ago, Brim006 said: And other than the good ole boys club actively suppressing new development opportunities to protect their own pockets, I just don't understand how or why it has happened. And the future outlook appears to be even worse. Trying to build back after the decimation of the flood followed by a decade plus of not aggressively pushing to get new (especially large) employers in town? I think the latter has changed a bit the last few years, hopefully it pays off. 12 minutes ago, forksandspoons said: The continual downsizing of the GF Air Force Base has not helped Grand Forks. Less jobs out there means less people living in Forks and working on the base. Impact goes beyond those that work on the base as well. This was a large detriment as well. 2 Quote
forksandspoons Posted June 18 Posted June 18 According to this March 2025 article, "...the region’s unmanned and autonomous systems sector expects to see another 500 to 1,000 jobs in the next five years, a field well-suited for airmen of the unmanned aircraft-operating 319th." https://www.grandforksherald.com/news/economic-development-officials-hoping-to-draw-more-airmen-to-grand-forks On the low end, 500 jobs could theoretically grow the population by 1,250 2 Quote
Brim006 Posted June 18 Posted June 18 47 minutes ago, forksandspoons said: The continual downsizing of the GF Air Force Base has not helped Grand Forks. Less jobs out there means less people living in Forks and working on the base. Impact goes beyond those that work on the base as well. Wow I didnt realize it used to be over 10k. Less than 1/4 of what it used to be even in the 90s, sheesh. That is substantial. 2 Quote
Brim006 Posted June 18 Posted June 18 38 minutes ago, forksandspoons said: Agristo should be online by 2028, creating around 300 permanent jobs. In the past I had read that for every job, the population base grows by something like 2.5 people. So Agristo alone should hopefully have an impact of around +750 people. That's a win! That's great news. Is that the new potato processor coming to town or something else? 2 Quote
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