Goon Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 From a B.C. Rube. No flames, please: How good is Zach Parise, really? I've been looking into Zach Parise's stats and I'm curious what people out west have to say about him. This week's ESPN Power Rankings say this about Parise: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- North Dakota's Zach Parise, the leading scorer at the World Junior Championship, is proof the Devils will continue to win Stanley Cups until the rest of the league (except for a few teams) starts scouting U.S. college hockey instead of just reading stat sheets. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here are a few reasons why he might be overrated: 1. He's 6th in the WCHA in points per game and third on his team. 2. He was the leading scorer in the World Juniors, and that's great. But upon closer inspection, he tied for the leading scorer position with two other guys (Canadians Nigel Dawes and Anthony Stewart). He was 6-6-12, including a hat trick in an 8-0 romp over Austria. (Note: aggregate stats list him as 5-6-11 but I count six goals: 3 vs AUT, 1 vs SVK, 2 vs RUS). 3. At the two BC games in Grand Forks he didn't impress me much. He didn't seem to get involved and he was pretty much a nonfactor. Not saying he isn't a great player, but as the most hyped player in college hockey is he living up to it? If I could take any UND player to my team as a transfer, it'd be Bochenski hands down, and I think Parise would be tied with Murray for 2nd. Just my two cents, please discuss... intelligently. This has to be one of the stupiest things that I have read this year. That is like one person saying Vanek is having a sub par season with 20+ points. Like I told someone last week its hard to score when you got some goon from UMD, SCSU, DU (insert team) drapped all over you. The telling thing of the season was when Parise was called for a penalty for yanking a guy off of him that was drapped all over him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
U2Bad1 Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 That poster is probably the most level headed one that BC has. I don't think that he really thinks parise is overrated, just trying to generate some honest conversation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted January 9, 2004 Author Share Posted January 9, 2004 That poster is probably the most level headed one that BC has. I don't think that he really thinks parise is overrated, just trying to generate some honest conversation I bet the guy watched Zach play two games against B.C. and decides that Zach isn't that good. One that is level headed wouldn't come to a conclusion like that. Only 6th in Scoring in the WCHA, third on his team because he missed 4 games, played hurt for a good part of the begining of the season. Like I said earlier watch teams that check him to the point of hanging, clutching, grabbing and mugging him up and down the ice. I think this is a testament of Zach play. Not too mention Zach doesn't wait at the red line for the puck he goes and gets it, plays defense and makes plays. I don't know about others but I am sick and tired of people bashing Zach... The kid is an awesome player that shows a lot of class and determination on the ice. If I was a coach I can't think of a player I would rather have... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 I have to agree with U2Bad1 on this. I've met the guy who wrote that post and while he is a BC fan, he is no Sioux hater or Zach basher. Heck, even Blais said last night on the UND coaches show that Bochenski has to be considered in the lead for the Hobey Baker because Vanek and Parise aren't having banner years. That isn't to say that Zach won't come out on fire the second half of the season and start putting up points like we all know he can. Until I heard him on WDAZ Wednesday night, I had no idea that his knee had been bothering him. If it's better now, we might very well see more scoring out of him. I hope it starts this weekend. It's always tough for fans of other teams in other leagues to know as much about Sioux players as we do. They never see them play as often as we do, either. The BC fan asked a good question and he got some good answers in response. Now he knows what we know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted January 9, 2004 Author Share Posted January 9, 2004 IF his knee was hurting him like he said then he has had a pretty good season so far then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND95 Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 One thing I really like about Zach's game is something that has been mentioned a bit here already....he works his butt of on the ice to get to loose pucks and create chances. The kid flat out hustles out there and goes after everything. He sees the ice well and makes some great plays. I also believe that his influence in practise and in the lockerroom is also something that makes him one of the most, if not the most, valuable member of this team. He has a great work ethic and I can only think rubs off....reminds of Ray Bourque in that respect. NJ found themselves a gem in Zach and he will prove that someday in the NHL. NJ has always like hard working players, and Zach is surely a hard worker along with a great talent. If only he had some open ice to work with instead of being mugged time and time again....oh well, it will only make him a stronger player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrkac Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 i agree..... Zach is a great hockey player but he still can improve. why does he score so much in international competition? open ice. in the college he has to fight through so many sticks that his size becomes somewhat of an issue. BUT this kind of game will only make him better as a pro player. i think his game has imporved a lot since last year in terms of his strength and play in the corners. he's always been a great 2 way player, which is one reason he's a better player than Vanek. parise will be a good NHL'er, i just think 3-4 years of college will be the way to get him best prepared for the pros. hopefully NJ thinks so too! As Bochenski goes......anyone at the SCSU game on friday can tell you that he should be the leading hobey candidate. he was da' MAN! he's made himself into a complete player over the summer. i've never seen him care so much about both parts of the game. a handful of times he caught a huskie, stole the puck, and turned it the other way for an odd man rush. also, he was a man amongst boys behind the net. he clanged the last shot flush off the post he shook his head as if he couldn't believe he missed it. next time he wont. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagies Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 I'm interested to see what happens with the WJC crew in the second half. Could they have been looking forward to the WJ tournament and been focused on that in the first half of the season? Could it mean they'll really crank it up the second half? After winning the WJC could they be less motivated to care about the NCAA run, thereby just playing out the second half? Could it have been a bigger deal for Parise than for Murray and Stafford being he's been there before? Therefore Parise might turn it on in the second half while we seen consistent play from the other 2? I guess we'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoteauRinkRat Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 I have to agree with U2Bad1 on this. I've met the guy who wrote that post and while he is a BC fan, he is no Sioux hater or Zach basher. Heck, even Blais said last night on the UND coaches show that Bochenski has to be considered in the lead for the Hobey Baker because Vanek and Parise aren't having banner years. That isn't to say that Zach won't come out on fire the second half of the season and start putting up points like we all know he can. Until I heard him on WDAZ Wednesday night, I had no idea that his knee had been bothering him. If it's better now, we might very well see more scoring out of him. I hope it starts this weekend. It's always tough for fans of other teams in other leagues to know as much about Sioux players as we do. They never see them play as often as we do, either. The BC fan asked a good question and he got some good answers in response. Now he knows what we know. I really don't care if you met the guy. His post is clearly trying to flame us, even though he says he's not. Let him think this, who cares, obviously other NHL teams thought he was overrated also, so the Devils got a steal. He asked a good question? lol, if it was just the question, it would be one thing, but his added comments along with the questions are what are ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawkota Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 There is nothing ridiculous about the questions posed in that post. Zach's point totals are not that impressive, he was sub-par against BC (for good reason), and he is the most hyped player in college hockey. If you hear the hype but look at the numbers only (or only saw him play against BC), you may come to a similar conclusion. However, we who see him every week know differently. I think that the poster was trying to get a feel for what people more familiar with Parise think, not to flame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoteauRinkRat Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Look at his point numbers as a freshman. Including his performance at last year's World Juniors. Take into account his injury this year, which we just are beginning to learn that it hurt him more than what we were led to believe. His performance at the World Juniors, oh yeah, it wasn't that good, because he only TIED for the lead in scoring. I don't know why the original poster meant that by only tying for the lead, he was overrated. He is third on the team in scoring, by oh yeah, he isn't that good. I saw the BC series and the Eaves boys didn't impress me much, I guess they aren't that good either than. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfm567b27 Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 i agree..... Zach is a great hockey player but he still can improve. why does he score so much in international competition? open ice. in the college he has to fight through so many sticks that his size becomes somewhat of an issue. BUT this kind of game will only make him better as a pro player. i think his game has imporved a lot since last year in terms of his strength and play in the corners. he's always been a great 2 way player, which is one reason he's a better player than Vanek. parise will be a good NHL'er, i just think 3-4 years of college will be the way to get him best prepared for the pros. hopefully NJ thinks so too! As Bochenski goes......anyone at the SCSU game on friday can tell you that he should be the leading hobey candidate. he was da' MAN! he's made himself into a complete player over the summer. i've never seen him care so much about both parts of the game. a handful of times he caught a huskie, stole the puck, and turned it the other way for an odd man rush. also, he was a man amongst boys behind the net. he clanged the last shot flush off the post he shook his head as if he couldn't believe he missed it. next time he wont. Hrkac...I love the quote under your posts..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfm567b27 Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Hrkac...I love the quote under your posts..... #3 in scoring on the #1 team in the nation is pretty darn respectable. If you asked him I'm sure he would rather be #3 in scoring on this team rather than be #1 in scoring on the 25th ranked team. Besides Zach is a team player, plays both ends of the ice equally as well and is far from being a puck hog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jk Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 The people defending Zudnic (the USCHO poster) aren't arguing against Zach. My personal opinion is that his post, both in premise and wording, is not offensive or flaming. It's an honest question from a very good college hockey fan, who calls it as he sees it. As an observer, he's much less of a homer than about 80% of the internet fans out there, including those on this board. I've never met him, but I've read a lot of his stuff over the last few years, and I will give him the benefit of the doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jojordan23 Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Look at his point numbers as a freshman. Including his performance at last year's World Juniors. Take into account his injury this year, which we just are beginning to learn that it hurt him more than what we were led to believe. His performance at the World Juniors, oh yeah, it wasn't that good, because he only TIED for the lead in scoring. I don't know why the original poster meant that by only tying for the lead, he was overrated. He is third on the team in scoring, by oh yeah, he isn't that good. I saw the BC series and the Eaves boys didn't impress me much, I guess they aren't that good either than. CRR, I can see Pat Eaves not impressing you much, the only thing he did was have staredown with ZPar after a little after-the-whistle action, but Ben didn't impress you? I thought he was the best player on the ice until he got injured, and that's even WITH my green colored glasses on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoteauRinkRat Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 lol It was a joke There is no way I could judge the Eaves play, by just watching them play one series a year. That is my point exactly, the poster said Parise didn't impress him much, but by just watching one series, no one can accurately judge a player's capability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 I really don't care if you met the guy. His post is clearly trying to flame us, even though he says he's not. If you choose to read his post as a flame, then you will take it that way. But having met the guy and knowing that he came hundreds of miles out of his way to tour the new REA, knowing that he thinks Ralph Engelstad was a great person, knowing where he stands on the Sioux name issue and knowing that he is very impressed with UND's hockey program, I chose to read his post as a legitimate question from a knowledgeable fan. You may not like his view of how Zach is doing this season, but I can understand why he and many others out east might hold the view they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoteauRinkRat Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 I'm always the first to criticize our own players, past and present. a couple of months ago, I hammered Goren for being the worst player on the ice for the Panthers one game, and people on here didn't like the negativity and criticism of a UND player. I got all types of negative reactions for it. When someone else criticizes a UND player and I defend him, then I get criticized for that. I can see he has some points, but the evidence he choose to use was not convincing. I'll go back to his post, where for some reason, he tries to argue that because he only TIED for the points lead at the WJC, he was overrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schmitzzz Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 If you choose to read his post as a flame, then you will take it that way. But having met the guy and knowing that he came hundreds of miles out of his way to tour the new REA, knowing that he thinks Ralph Engelstad was a great person, knowing where he stands on the Sioux name issue and knowing that he is very impressed with UND's hockey program, I chose to read his post as a legitimate question from a knowledgeable fan. You may not like his view of how Zach is doing this season, but I can understand why he and many others out east might hold the view they do. I have met him as well and I agree 100% with PCM. He is a good fan of college hockey and am certain his post was meant only to spark discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 I thought Zudnic's questions were/are perfectly valid. I also think most of the discussion in the thread is probably the most lucid, for USCHO, in some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Last year Zach started fast out of the gate and slowed down at the end. (I think he admitted he got tired at the end of the season in one article.) This year he's slow (for Zach) out of the scoring gate; however, he was hampered by a knee problem also. Here's hoping we get to see him sprint to the end ala Finland. PS - Zach isn't out there just for scoring. That's what makes him special. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jk Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 CRR, FWIW: I was the one who jumped on you about Goren, and I think I was just having a bad day or something because, in retrospect, you were just calling it as you saw it, which is fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WPoS Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Hrkac...I love the quote under your posts..... small minds think alike I see.... too bad it is true, I have congratulated UND fans after they won, but have yet to see any props after a UND loss. As for the B.C. guy, I'd say that ZP is in the top 2-3 players in the nation. Not watching him every week makes it tough to call him #1 tho. Definitely a skilled player who does well regardless of the opponent he faces. So if you think the BC guy is totally out to flame your fav player, you may be going a bit "homer" on him too much. WPoS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinnesotaNorthStar Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 I really don't see the comment as a flame...just bringing up some simple questions. Obviously, as the only series he saw Zach was bothered by a knee injury, he may not have been impressed. Would anyone here have been impressed with Vanek if the only time you saw him play was the series at REA this year? Probably not. But, we know that he is a pretty decent player. Zach is off to a slower start than last year, pointswise, which will lead others who only go by the stat sheets to think that he is not playing well. Getting to actually see him play we all know otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfm567b27 Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 I thought Zudnic's questions were/are perfectly valid. I also think most of the discussion in the thread is probably the most lucid, for USCHO, in some time. An honest question for Wpos...Can you ask your buddy on POI why he inadvertently? left out Commodore, Blake and Johnson from the list of former Sioux from the 90's era? I think he was trying to make a point that Leopold being a leading minutes guy for Calgary was far and away producing more than any of the former Sioux (during the 90's and early 2000's) collectively in the NHL. Or I can ask him myself.....New IP, login and all. PS...I ran a spell checker on this post so we should be ok. As always please point out any typo's or grammatical infractions I may have inadvertently made. Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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