Smoggy Posted January 1, 2004 Share Posted January 1, 2004 Towards the bottom of article, INCH mentions that the South Dakota AD who wanted hockey was possibly forced out due to bball and fb fans not wanting hockey to take money away. INCH WCHA roundup With other NCC teams having success at hockey it seems odd on their fans part to not want it. I don't think any NCC team took money away from fb or bball to field a hockey team. In fact, hockey brings in more money for many of these teams (I'm assuming). I would think that bball would always be king in South Dakota and would hope that fans were more concerned with money for arena/recruiting, and not because bball might not be as popular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoteauRinkRat Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 Hockey might seem like it is a money maker everywhere, but that is not the case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoggy Posted January 2, 2004 Author Share Posted January 2, 2004 I'm sure not every school makes money, but I'd bet most do or at least don't lose money. Otherwise why have it, because it is pricey. It is attendance driven, but as long as you can get into a major conference I believe it's a money maker just from the tourney revenues. I think that even the smaller conferences get a nice chunk of NCAA money from tourneys. With so few teams and conferences and now more tourneys, there is a lot more money to go around. I guess I don't have the numbers to look at, but when you have Omaha getting a new facility and Mankato getting one not long ago and even Duluth getting one in the future, that is three NCC teams that seem to be making money on hockey (though UMD has been at it for a while) and I didn't include our new rink or St. Cloud. It's expensive to start, but I believe it's one of the few money making sports in the NCAA. The others being D1A fb and most of D1 bball. Again, those sports are contigent on being in a bigger conference. Of course if SD were to want hockey they'd probably be stuck in the CHA. I'm guessing those schools don't make as much money, and maybe the SD fans wouldn't even support it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skateshattrick Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 Hockey might seem like it is a money maker everywhere, but that is not the case Why do you say that? The first year that Omaha started its hockey program, it was $1M in the black. It ended up supporting fledgling football and basketball programs. If a team can draw even 4-5,000 for 20 home games, the attendance is 80-100,000. It take 5 home football games of 16-20,000 attendance to rival that. Our myopic friends at NDSU could not recognize that because, like South Dakota, felt it would hurt its other programs when in fact it supports them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 UNO's hockey program also benefitted from the fact that USHL had a franchise in place as its program developed. As such, there was already a hockey educated fanbase in its market. The same really can't be said for a similar foundation at USD. Moreover, the startup costs for a new program are huge, especially if you don't have an existing barn that can generate adequate operating revenue. That also doesn't include equipment, recruiting and other variable costs. I think it would be great if USD, and even the Stream Yellow crowd, developed solid hockey programs, but I doubt it will happen without a huge inflow of cash that can't be siphoned off to other sports or long, lonely bus rides to some D1AA school in Texas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schmidtdoggydog Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 UNO's hockey program also benefitted from the fact that USHL had a franchise in place as its program developed. As such, there was already a hockey educated fanbase in its market. I am not saying it could or could not work, but considering Vermillion's proximity to Sioux Falls, Omaha, Lincoln and Sioux City (30 miles or less), in particular, it would appear that Vermillion is surrounded by a potential fanbase that should be hockey educated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BisonMav Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 Why do you say that? The first year that Omaha started its hockey program, it was $1M in the black. It ended up supporting fledgling football and basketball programs. If a team can draw even 4-5,000 for 20 home games, the attendance is 80-100,000. It take 5 home football games of 16-20,000 attendance to rival that. Our myopic friends at NDSU could not recognize that because, like South Dakota, felt it would hurt its other programs when in fact it supports them. Omaha was a hockey town many years ago. Omaha Knights with Gordie Howe, Terry Sawchuk etc. The Lancers sold out from the beginning, and I was a season ticket holder when I lived there. Fargo doesn't have that hockey foundation that ScottM is talking about. There is a lot of kids playing hockey in Fargo, with their parents going to the games. Moorhead has a strong hockey history. The Jets and North Stars have played in Moorhead in the early 1980's and have not sold out. The North Stars also played in Fargo against the Memphis South Stars in the 1960's without many people watching. Another major issue would be an arena. I would guess that their would be more UND hockey fans that live in Fargo, at the games than there would be actual NDSU fans. USD might have a good following with a USHL team in Sioux Falls and Sioux City. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSiouxFan Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 Does the fact that South Dakota doesn't have High School hockey hurt their chances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatspin7 Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 You must also condsidder the fact that there is no way that the WCHA would allow SD into it with no DI Hockey experiance they would probably have to play in the CHA to get some credibility before the WCHA would even talk to them. It would be like UND going DI for football and trying to join the Big 10 its just ridiculious. There would not be a lot of money to be made as a CHA team especially when trying to start out from nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwing77 Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 You must also condsidder the fact that there is no way that the WCHA would allow SD into it with no DI Hockey experiance they would probably have to play in the CHA to get some credibility before the WCHA would even talk to them. It would be like UND going DI for football and trying to join the Big 10 its just ridiculious. There would not be a lot of money to be made as a CHA team especially when trying to start out from nothing. I agree. I think it would be ridiculous, but there is going to be a problem arising folks. The DIII vote appears to have gone south for CC and now they are saying that the vote may go against CC. That will effectively end CC's competitiveness in the WCHA. This COULD open a slot up in the WCHA for a team as CC could switch conferences to one that they can compete in without scholarships. Even if this happens (which right now, this is pure speculation), Bemidji State would probably get the nod into the WCHA if they applied. However, I'd love to see UNO come to the WCHA under this circumstance. NOTE: Like I said earlier, this may not happen even if CC loses scholarships. It's just speculation and a wild idea I thought up. Also, Findlay nixed hockey and USD fired their AD so that they could put this whole thing aside. So SD hockey doesn't seem like much of a reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 The DIII vote appears to have gone south for CC and now they are saying that the vote may go against CC. .... This COULD open a slot up in the WCHA for a team as CC could switch conferences to one that they can compete in without scholarships. I suspect CC would leave DIII before your scenario would come to pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diggler Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 Could CC do something like what the Ivies do and not give athletic scholarships, but somehow pay for the players education? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nodakvindy Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 When the DIII proposal goes through (and it appears it will), I would like to see CC move up to DII and join the NCC. This would position the whole conference well for a possible move to DI later on. Nearly all the schools are similar philosophically. At that point, Denver could likely be coaxed to join, getting out out of the Sun Belt black hole. This would also be a great fallback position in case a Big 10 hockey league ever came to pass. A DI NCC hockey league would have the same voice in NCAA terms as the Big Ten. The league would probably be able to get a deal with CSTV, something Minnesota's Fox Sports North deal effectively prevents now. Under this scenario, the NCC could gradually up football scholarships to the IAA max of 63. I think this was a sticking point in the NCC not moving up when NDSU and SDSU left. NDSU wanted to ramp up immediately, as football is their cash cow. I could see SDSU dropping to non-scholarship football (Pioneer League) and devoting all that money to hoops, hoping to become a heartland version of Gonzaga, likely in the Missouri Valley Conference. That would leave an NCC of Hockey schools - North Dakota, Minnesota-Duluth, Minnesota State-Mankato, St. Cloud State, Nebraska-Omaha, Colorado College and Denver Non Hockey - South Dakota, Augustana Hockey only NCC members - Alaska Anchorage and Michigan Tech (if they wanted to) Keep UAA becuase you get the extra games for playing up there and keep Michigan Tech for the MacNaughton Cup. Probably never happen, but it's interesting to think about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 I thought I read some where that C.C. was going to move up to Division II. I believe I read that on USCHO... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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