What happens if the first petition gains enough signatures?

[Goon]

That's exactly what they are doing. A prominent UND alum lives right by Berg in Fargo. I'm sure there's heat being applied. That said, anyone would be preferable to Heitkamp in the Senate for ND.

No doubt and I can't see Heidi Heitkamp winning the election. No matter how much money she gets from outside interests.

[watchmaker49]

I see a constitutional ruling challenge on the nickname law if the petition drive is successful. Just a hunch.

More like written up and ready to file the same day.

[The Sicatoka]

http://www.valleynew...have-signatures

Seems we may be live witnesses to what UND will do.

I'm guessing this will be a more thorough than usual "thorough process".

The VNL.com story has been updated with ...

Reed Soderstrom, the attorney representing nickname supporters says, he's not as confident as Frank Black Cloud they'll have enough signatures to restore the nickname. However, Soderstrom says he's very optimistic. He says it will probably be at least 9 p.m. on Tuesday, before they turn in their petitions to the Secretary of State.

One guy says they have 15k signatures.

Their attorney says he's not as confident?

Attorney speak? Or does Soderstrom know something about some of the petitions?

[iramurphy]

Nope. Their hoplessly conflicted attorney Reed Soderstrom is also behind the petitions. That's about it. He seeks to enshrine the Sioux moniker in the North Dakota Constitution, which could effectively deprive SL of any claim to it. Without that claim (property right) they probably cannot make their case against the NC$$.

As far as the NC$$ is concerned, their litigation with UND and the state ended in 2007 with the settlement. UND is bound by that agreement and can now be sanctioned accordingly.

"It's not [political], it's business".- Michael Corleone "The Godfather"

So much for the claim that this is all for our Native American brothers and sisters.

[iramurphy]

I can't believe alot of you are ready to let a tradition like this move on. I would much rather see the school return to division 2 then to see the state give up on the name.

I can't believe alot of you are ready to let a tradition like this move on. I would much rather see the school return to division 2 then to see the state give up on the name.

The tradition of UND and UND athletics is not, nor has it ever been, the name. That is something we adopted because we didn't want to be the Flickertails and we thought the Sioux were an improtant part of the history of N.DAk. plus they killed a lot of Bison. We have received a mixed message from the tribal councils over the past 40 years. Blame who you wish but don't say anything so stupid as the name is more important than the kids and coaches who compete on behalf of our University. They and those who came before are the tradition, not the name. We compete and win or lose regardless of the name on the jersey. If you don't get that then you have never competed in anything or been part of a team of any kind. It is about the people, not the color of the jersey or a name.

[Chewey]

So is the 1969 peace pipe ceremony, but you and the rest of the PC nazis choose to ignore it.

The PC Nazis don't assign any weight to it which is ironic in light of their PC attributes but I would not classify too many people here as PC Nazis. Most detest the NCAA at least as much as I do. Just differing positions concerning the purpose and efficacy of the petitions.

[Teeder11]

The PC Nazis don't assign any weight to it which is ironic in light of their PC attributes but I would not classify too many people here as PC Nazis. Most detest the NCAA at least as much as I do. Just differing positions concerning the purpose and efficacy of the petitions.

Nicely put, Chewey!

[Chewey]

It is about the people, not the color of the jersey or a name.

I agree with you but it is also about the people who gave the nickname and who have mistreated and ignored and, now conveniently, blamed (Where were they?, etc.).

[ScottM]

So is the 1969 peace pipe ceremony, but you and the rest of the PC nazis choose to ignore it.

Dave, your disdain for the university and its student-athletes is well-known. Don't compound it by demonstrating your own idiocy too.

[The Sicatoka]

Nope. Their hoplessly conflicted attorney Reed Soderstrom is also behind the petitions. That's about it. He seeks to enshrine the Sioux moniker in the North Dakota Constitution, which could effectively deprive SL of any claim to it. Without that claim (property right) they probably cannot make their case against the NC$$.

The VNL.com story has been updated with ...

One guy says they have 15k signatures.

Their attorney says he's not as confident?

Attorney speak? Or does Soderstrom know something about some of the petitions?

Just thinking out loud here:

Did Soderstrom realize that if the petitions are there it undermines his case in Federal court (and a lot of possible billable hours)?

If the petitions are there, the SL case loses key footing.

If the petitions aren't there Soderstrom can pressure his clients to pay to accelerate their case.

[The Sicatoka]

Amazing what one can find online ...

http://www.nd.gov/sos/forms/pdf/initiating.pdf

Starting at page 5, "Gathering Signatures", explains what should have happened up to now, what has to happen by midnight, and what happens after that as far as the Secretary of State's office is concerned.

[Teeder11]

It is about the people, not the color of the jersey or a name.

I agree with you but it is also about the people who gave the nickname and who have mistreated and ignored and, now conveniently, blamed (Where were they?, etc.).

I was thinking about this very thing the other day, but I drew a different conclusion. From my perspective, I feel the only remotely positive development that has come from the Spirit Lake tibe leading the fight for the "repeal of the repeal," the constitutional amendment and the suit against the NCAA is that much of the anonymous nastiness that used to be spewed forth unfairly toward American Indians as a whole by many on the fervent pro-nickname side has been supplanted by a more general courteous tone toward Indian people, who have always been caught in the middle of this controversy. The ignorant statements like "go back to the reservation," and "I'm never going to go to an Indian casino again" and "why don't you pay for your education" and "don't you have bigger problems to deal with than a school nickname" and "if you hate UND so much why don't you just pack up and go somewhere else," have been seen much less frequently since the Spirit Lake Committee for Understanding and Respect got going in earnest.

[ScottM]

I was thinking about this very thing the other day, but I drew a different conclusion. From my perspective, I feel the only remotely positive development that has come from the Spirit Lake tibe leading the fight for the "repeal of the repeal," the constitutional amendment and the suit against the NCAA is that much of the anonymous nastiness that used to be spewed forth unfairly toward American Indians as a whole by many on the fervent pro-nickname side has been supplanted by a more general courteous tone toward Indian people, who have always been caught in the middle of this controversy. The ignorant statesment like "go back to the reservation," and "I'm never going to go to an Indian casino again" and "why don't you pay for your education" and "don't you have bigger problems to deal with than a school nickname" and "if you hate UND so much why don't you just pack up and go somewhere else," have been seen much less frequently since the Spirit Lake Committee for Understanding and Respect got going in earnest.

Yeah, it all kind of reminds me of the long-lost friend who wants to borrow $20 from you again, and promises to pay you back the next time he sees you. Again,

Personally, I think it's disengenuous to suddenly wrap ourselves in the Kumbaya stuff when the vast majority of people in North Dakota don't really care what happens in Indian Country. If the Sioux moniker wasn't an issue, and SL was pushing for ownership of say ... most of the Bakken based on some ancient, newly-found treaty, I doubt the moniker advocates would be so "friendly" to them. And it also begs the question of where our "friends" were in 2005 onward when the fight really mattered.

[Chewey]

I was thinking about this very thing the other day, but I drew a different conclusion. From my perspective, I feel the only remotely positive development that has come from the Spirit Lake tibe leading the fight for the "repeal of the repeal," the constitutional amendment and the suit against the NCAA is that much of the anonymous nastiness that used to be spewed forth unfairly toward American Indians as a whole by many on the fervent pro-nickname side has been supplanted by a more general courteous tone toward Indian people, who have always been caught in the middle of this controversy. The ignorant statements like "go back to the reservation," and "I'm never going to go to an Indian casino again" and "why don't you pay for your education" and "don't you have bigger problems to deal with than a school nickname" and "if you hate UND so much why don't you just pack up and go somewhere else," have been seen much less frequently since the Spirit Lake Committee for Understanding and Respect got going in earnest.

Yep. Agreed. But, to be fair (and, possibly, paranoid?), some of that "go back on the resevation" stuff may have been listed by anti-nickname "plants" just like the allegations of petitions being left unattended, etc. But, enough of that crap has been spewed here by many and you're very right about the lack of it being spewed now is a positive. The Native Americans are the most committed of the supporters. Regardless of position, however, that sort of vitriol has no place in responsible discourse. There was an issue up in Cavalier where a store owner was collecting signatures and was right there at the counter with the petitions out and an anti-nicknamer tried to rip the petitions away and actually ripped a page out and ran out of the store. This is true, believe it or not, and just shows how vile and juvenile many antis are.

[Teeder11]

Yeah, it all kind of reminds me of the long-lost friend who wants to borrow $20 from you again, and promises to pay you back the next time he sees you. Again,

Personally, I think it's disengenuous to suddenly wrap ourselves in the Kumbaya stuff when the vast majority of people in North Dakota don't really care what happens in Indian Country. If the Sioux moniker wasn't an issue, and SL was pushing for ownership of say ... most of the Bakken based on some ancient, newly-found treaty, I doubt the moniker advocates would be so "friendly" to them. And it also begs the question of where our "friends" were in 2005 onward when the fight really mattered.

It's just nice to see that kind of knee-jerk knuckle-dragging rhetoric go away. Whether the cause is disingenous or not is up for debate.

[Chewey]

Just thinking out loud here:

Did Soderstrom realize that if the petitions are there it undermines his case in Federal court (and a lot of possible billable hours)?

If the petitions are there, the SL case loses key footing.

If the petitions aren't there Soderstrom can pressure his clients to pay to accelerate their case.

As I've said before, Reed and other attorneys so involved are doing it pro bono. Anyone who wants to do so can ask Roger Yankton about that.

[Teeder11]

Yep. Agreed. But, to be fair (and, possibly, paranoid?), some of that "go back on the resevation" stuff may have been listed by anti-nickname "plants" just like the allegations of petitions being left unattended, etc. But, enough of that crap has been spewed here by many and you're very right about the lack of it being spewed now is a positive. The Native Americans are the most committed of the supporters. Regardless of position, however, that sort of vitriol has no place in responsible discourse. There was an issue up in Cavalier where a store owner was collecting signatures and was right there at the counter with the petitions out and an anti-nicknamer tried to rip the petitions away and actually ripped a page out and ran out of the store. This is true, believe it or not, and just shows how vile and juvenile many antis are.

It's too bad things have devovled to this state. There's a lot of blame to go around on all sides, but blame gets us nowhere near the road to healing.

[ScottM]

It's just nice to see that kind of knee-jerk knuckle-dragging rhetoric go away. Whether it's the cause is disingenous or not is up for debate.

But it's reflective of our national discourse.

[The Sicatoka]

As I've said before, Reed and other attorneys so involved are doing it pro bono. Anyone who wants to do so can ask Roger Yankton about that.

Good to hear there's no profit for Soderstrom angle to this.

But ScottM's prior point still exists:

Soderstrom working to get the petitions in place to restore the State law actually harms his client's (SL's) case as the power goes to the State and is taken from SL.

[PhillySioux]

As I've said before, Reed and other attorneys so involved are doing it pro bono. Anyone who wants to do so can ask Roger Yankton about that.

I have no doubt that he is doing the work pro bono. Reed and his firm cashed in BIGTIME a number of years ago on a case against Canadian Pacific. He doesn't need the money.

[Chewey]

No doubt and I can't see Heidi Heitkamp winning the election. No matter how much money she gets from outside interests.

I sure hope you're right, Goon, for ND's sake.

[darell1976]

So what happens to the other petion if they don't get enough signatures for this one. Don't they need like 26,000 signatures?

[Chewey]

I have no doubt that he is doing the work pro bono. Reed and his firm cashed in BIGTIME a number of years ago on a case against Canadian Pacific. He doesn't need the money.

I know. I know well the attorney that worked on that case. They did pretty well too when the CP derailed in January, 2002.

[Chewey]

So what happens to the other petion if they don't get enough signatures for this one. Don't they need like 26,000 signatures?

The initiated measure is something that is a stand alone matter apart from the present referral. If 13,500 signatures are not obtained by the end of today, the other matter still goes if 26,000 signatures are obtained by August ? (forget the date at present).

[darell1976]

The initiated measure is something that is a stand alone matter apart from the present referral. If 13,500 signatures are not obtained by the end of today, the other matter still goes if 26,000 signatures are obtained by August ? (forget the date at present).

Thanks Chewey