UND Total Attendance Leader at FCS Level?

[JohnboyND7]

The problem with NDSU fans is that they've been drinking so much Bisonville jealousy and envy koolaid that continually spouts the mantra that hockey is irrelevant, that after a while they believe what is nothing more than propaganda. If NDSU built up its wrestling program so that it brought in Iowa State or Iowa type crowds, that would be counted too, even though the vast majority of FCS schools do not have wrestling. A few of the schools actually have large crowds that pay to watch gymnastics and lacrosse: that was counted too.

Are you aware that UND's athletic budget is nearly four million more than NDSU's? Four million. This from a school that hasn't even finished it's transition, isn't getting much from the NCAA as part of it's reimbursement, and is getting nothing from a conference. Even moreso, UND athletic's budget doesn't cover the cost of the Ralph, which is paid for by UND hockey tickets purchased. When the Ralph is combined into UND athletics, the disparity between UND and NDSU would be closer to 10 million.

As much as you might dislike the numbers presented, as far as a business UND is in the upper echelon of schools in FCS (like Old Dominion, or Delaware, or Cornell), while NDSU is in a tier beneath that. A school like USD is even lower (and how they do as well as they do, is a credit to their coaches.)

Think of it as a business analogy. UND athletics is like the Canad Inn complex: each spectator sport is a different restaurant or entertainment venue. Some of those restaurants actually don't have that great of food (and need a new head chef), but overall it is a pretty decent experience. UND chooses to offer a water park (hockey), while NDSU claims that would be too expensive. NDSU athletics is more like a tractor repair shop, with an attached greasy spoon, a Motel 6, and a tawdry strip club (attracting the derelict characters that is so often witnessed in Fargo police bookings). Both complexes somewhat serve the same purposes to the alumni (entertainment, lodging, food) , but to non-alumni the appearance is entirely different.

Take a look at how much of that is going to the hockey team. We don't have a hockey team and hence, don't need an extra $4 million. I do know that we spend a little bit more on football and I think basketball too.

That was a really dumb analogy. I'd say that they are two schools who have at least one sport they can count on to be pretty good at said sport. Btw, there is a lot of money that goes into a tractor repair shop. Seriously, those things are huge and expensive. Whats really almost funny is your clear lack of any respect for NDSU as an institution. You seem to think it is a 2nd-class institution in comparison to UND. If that was true, NDSU would be smaller(its not), its sports teams would be worse(ours are currently better), no one would care(17,000 cared last week), we wouldn't be on tv(we are in ND), and no one would travel to watch(30,000 in the metrodome). We are not going to do yet another pissing match. If you want, i'd be more than happy to go back to the NDSU-UND football thread and continue this pissing match.

It is really great for UND that they have that attendence to be happy about. The Ralph is a really nice arena and they have a good product which leads to high-demand, hence a lot of butts in the seats, and a lot of cash coming in. UND was truely blessed to have a huge donor like Ralph(his questionable nazi sympathies aside) who was willing to drop $100 million on a hockey arena. It will bring a lot of money to UND for a very long time more than likely. I know that I would like to have someone like that drop a ton of coin on NDSU so we could get our basketball arena fixed up. Again, notice what I said earlier, I don't think it is necessary to count the non-core sports such as hockey, gymnastics, wrestling, or LAX. Honestly, most schools don't have those, nor do most schools care about those sports. Hence, why once again, all I asked for was for it to be a basketball/football attendence count. This is not in some sorry attempt to see NDSU skyrocket above UND(it would be nice, its not fun seeing NDSU that much lower haha), this is simply because those are far and away the two most popular and widespread sports that pretty much all FCS teams will have.

You are a very sad little man. I guess I would be too if I got cut from the JV hockey team and had to resort to worshipping a college hockey team.

[JohnboyND7]

Guess somebody's feelings are hurt.

I just knew a Sioux-hater like you would absolutely hate it, especially the tractor repair/strip club analogy. Bet you already complained about it on bisonviile.

Can't believe how consistent bison fans are in being whiners.

Most people at NDSU embrace the agricultural background. Strip club analogy was funny, can't deny that some NDSU athletes have had some trouble with the law.

[dakota fairways]

... all I asked for was for it to be a basketball/football attendence count. ...

I humbly invite you to start that thread on Bisonville.

[FargoBison]

Guess somebody's feelings are hurt.

I just knew a Sioux-hater like you would absolutely hate it, especially the tractor repair/strip club analogy. Bet you already complained about it on bisonviile.

Hard to get my feelings hurt about something that asinine. Hater? That comment is comical, I don't smack UND..hell I go to an occasional Sioux hockey game. I'm far from some bitter hater.

As for NDSU we are the only ND or SD university in the very high research classification and I believe we finished in the top 100 of the Directors Cup last year, so I think we are doing just fine down here in the tractor repair shop.

[andtheHomeoftheSIOUX!!]

A couple of things. As has been pointed out, the thread title says it all about the criteria. Why would you only count core sports though? Athletic departments must follow the law (title IX), so that partially dictates what sports they will have. Also, athletic departments must make decisions about which sports they want and what they think will bring in the most money and be the most attractive to their fans. There are lots of decisions that go into this process and every athletic department must make them. So it only makes sense to compare entire athletic departments in this sense. Now if you just want to compare football and basketball, have it at, but really, all that indicates is how popular those two sports are; it doesn't give proper representation to the entire athletic department of the school (it can still be a good comparison though).

I love agriculture.

I believe NDSU is making a mistake by not pursing hockey. In past years, the Force have had higher average attendance then NDSU basketball (I believe the Force have more home games as well). The Force are in the USHL, one of the primary feeder leagues for UND and college hockey. The fact that they are out attending NDSU basketball says something for the popularity of hockey in the region that NDSU is located in.

[FargoBison]

A couple of things. As has been pointed out, the thread title says it all about the criteria. Why would you only count core sports though? Athletic departments must follow the law (title IX), so that partially dictates what sports they will have. Also, athletic departments must make decisions about which sports they want and what they think will bring in the most money and be the most attractive to their fans. There are lots of decisions that go into this process and every athletic department must make them. So it only makes sense to compare entire athletic departments in this sense. Now if you just want to compare football and basketball, have it at, but really, all that indicates is how popular those two sports are; it doesn't give proper representation to the entire athletic department of the school (it can still be a good comparison though).

I love agriculture.

I believe NDSU is making a mistake by not pursing hockey. In past years, the Force have had higher average attendance then NDSU basketball (I believe the Force have more home games as well). The Force are in the USHL, one of the primary feeder leagues for UND and college hockey. The fact that they are out attending NDSU basketball says something for the popularity of hockey in the region that NDSU is located in.

If NDSU basketball could sell beer and give away tickets like the Force do attendance would be much higher. In many ways the Force are just like the Redhawks...an excuse to go somewhere and drink beer. NDSU could have hockey but there are forces within the athletic department that want nothing to do with it. Even if those people could be overcome there are forces within the school that will never allow the school to sell beer during games. That is a huge revenue stream gone, it is a war just to allow alcohol for tailgating at football games.

[darell1976]

Take a look at how much of that is going to the hockey team. We don't have a hockey team and hence, don't need an extra $4 million. I do know that we spend a little bit more on football and I think basketball too.

That was a really dumb analogy. I'd say that they are two schools who have at least one sport they can count on to be pretty good at said sport. Btw, there is a lot of money that goes into a tractor repair shop. Seriously, those things are huge and expensive. Whats really almost funny is your clear lack of any respect for NDSU as an institution. You seem to think it is a 2nd-class institution in comparison to UND. If that was true, NDSU would be smaller(its not), its sports teams would be worse(ours are currently better), no one would care(17,000 cared last week), we wouldn't be on tv(we are in ND), and no one would travel to watch(30,000 in the metrodome). We are not going to do yet another pissing match. If you want, i'd be more than happy to go back to the NDSU-UND football thread and continue this pissing match.

It is really great for UND that they have that attendence to be happy about. The Ralph is a really nice arena and they have a good product which leads to high-demand, hence a lot of butts in the seats, and a lot of cash coming in. UND was truely blessed to have a huge donor like Ralph(his questionable nazi sympathies aside) who was willing to drop $100 million on a hockey arena. It will bring a lot of money to UND for a very long time more than likely. I know that I would like to have someone like that drop a ton of coin on NDSU so we could get our basketball arena fixed up. Again, notice what I said earlier, I don't think it is necessary to count the non-core sports such as hockey, gymnastics, wrestling, or LAX. Honestly, most schools don't have those, nor do most schools care about those sports. Hence, why once again, all I asked for was for it to be a basketball/football attendence count. This is not in some sorry attempt to see NDSU skyrocket above UND(it would be nice, its not fun seeing NDSU that much lower haha), this is simply because those are far and away the two most popular and widespread sports that pretty much all FCS teams will have.

You are a very sad little man. I guess I would be too if I got cut from the JV hockey team and had to resort to worshipping a college hockey team.

This part really had me laughing. NDSU is larger in enrollment, but the % increase is very tiny since Joe Chapman left, yet UND % increase is a lot larger, your sports teams are better than ours. Lets see football..yes, basketball...that one game UND-NDSU yes, UND did go to the CIT tourny. Volleyball...Who got an @ss kicking a couple weeks ago. Football on tv. KVLY vs Fox College Sports. Yep no contest. 30,000 in the metrodome sure if it your team, but UND isn't allowed to play Minny due to their BS policy however we pack the Xcel or Marriucci when we play them too.

[star2city]

That was a really dumb analogy. I'd say that they are two schools who have at least one sport they can count on to be pretty good at said sport. Btw, there is a lot of money that goes into a tractor repair shop. Seriously, those things are huge and expensive. Whats really almost funny is your clear lack of any respect for NDSU as an institution. You seem to think it is a 2nd-class institution in comparison to UND. If that was true, NDSU would be smaller(its not), its sports teams would be worse(ours are currently better), no one would care(17,000 cared last week), we wouldn't be on tv(we are in ND), and no one would travel to watch(30,000 in the metrodome). We are not going to do yet another pissing match. If you want, i'd be more than happy to go back to the NDSU-UND football thread and continue this pissing match.

It is really great for UND that they have that attendence to be happy about. The Ralph is a really nice arena and they have a good product which leads to high-demand, hence a lot of butts in the seats, and a lot of cash coming in. UND was truely blessed to have a huge donor like Ralph(his questionable nazi sympathies aside) who was willing to drop $100 million on a hockey arena. It will bring a lot of money to UND for a very long time more than likely. I know that I would like to have someone like that drop a ton of coin on NDSU so we could get our basketball arena fixed up. Again, notice what I said earlier, I don't think it is necessary to count the non-core sports such as hockey, gymnastics, wrestling, or LAX. Honestly, most schools don't have those, nor do most schools care about those sports. Hence, why once again, all I asked for was for it to be a basketball/football attendence count. This is not in some sorry attempt to see NDSU skyrocket above UND(it would be nice, its not fun seeing NDSU that much lower haha), this is simply because those are far and away the two most popular and widespread sports that pretty much all FCS teams will have.

You are a very sad little man. I guess I would be too if I got cut from the JV hockey team and had to resort to worshipping a college hockey team.

Isn't Big Iron in the Fargodome right now? I never said the Fargdome was a cheap place, and the analogy fits: most tractor repair places also sell tractors, like the Fargodome.

Just admit it, you most of your bison fans hate this thread because it reveals UND fans in very good light.

What's seems even more galling to you is that the only athletic thing NDSU has going for it is football, and even that doesn't have national respect. That's why bison fans see their Minnesota game as their Super Bowl: their only chance to make ESPN every three years.

Is it because of personal insecurities or of your own institutional insecurity that you took offense at the statistics? What does that say about you?

I respect NDSU as an institution. But most of their fans and many of their coaches I have very low respect for (with certain exceptions, like Don Morton or even Saul Phillips now, I think are exemplary people.)

Until you can prove that UND hockey does not benefit the bottom line of UND athletics, your arbitrary decision to eliminate hockey as part of attendance just shows a total lack of business critical thinking and your way of attacking UND. Every DI school has to sponsor at least 14 sports - every sport costs money. So by your token, the huge amount of fans that show up at Texas State for baseball, or at multiple sports for Old Dominion (women's basketball, and soccer and multiple other sportsare huge there), or volleyball and wrestling at Northern Iowa, or hockey plus multiple other sports at Cornell, should be rejected.

As far as your personal attacks on me, does that mean that most bison fans on bisonville are nano-people because of their perpetual smack attacks on UND. Is that why NDSU does well in nanotech? (there, just giving NDSU some institutional credit for its nano-technology!)

[star2city]

Hard to get my feelings hurt about something that asinine. Hater? That comment is comical, I don't smack UND..hell I go to an occasional Sioux hockey game. I'm far from some bitter hater.

As for NDSU we are the only ND or SD university in the very high research classification and I believe we finished in the top 100 of the Directors Cup last year, so I think we are doing just fine down here in the tractor repair shop.

Considering that you go by "NDSU Student" on bisonville, reasonable people would classify the bolded statement as totallly untrue .

Again, get over your insecurities about NDSU. This thread was never about smacking NDSU or their research. But with NDSU posters continually attacking the statistics in this thread as irrelevant, the insecurities of the bison fan base are definitely revealed.

[FargoBison]

Considering that you go by "NDSU Student" on bisonville, reasonable people would classify the bolded statement as totallly untrue .

Again, get over your insecurities about NDSU. This thread was never about smacking NDSU or their research. But with NDSU posters continually attacking the statistics in this thread as irrelevant, the insecurities of the bison fan base are definitely revealed.

Read my last 500 posts, I doubt you'll see much if any smack about UND there.

You know, what I never attacked your stats. I don't think they are really that meaningful, but brag about them all you want. I don't care.

You are the one who ran NDSU down like it was some third rate school, I was just trying to say things can't be so bad if our athletic department is in the top 100 of the Directors Cup and our school is considered to be one of the top research institutions in the country. I think we are doing things at a pretty high level and unlike you I don't feel the need to run down a school to make myself feel better.

[JohnboyND7]

Isn't Big Iron in the Fargodome right now? I never said the Fargdome was a cheap place, and the analogy fits: most tractor repair places also sell tractors, like the Fargodome.

Just admit it, you most of your bison fans hate this thread because it reveals UND fans in very good light.

What's seems even more galling to you is that the only athletic thing NDSU has going for it is football, and even that doesn't have national respect. That's why bison fans see their Minnesota game as their Super Bowl: their only chance to make ESPN every three years.

Is it because of personal insecurities or of your own institutional insecurity that you took offense at the statistics? What does that say about you?

I respect NDSU as an institution. But most of their fans and many of their coaches I have very low respect for (with certain exceptions, like Don Morton or even Saul Phillips now, I think are exemplary people.)

Until you can prove that UND hockey does not benefit the bottom line of UND athletics, your arbitrary decision to eliminate hockey as part of attendance just shows a total lack of business critical thinking. Every DI school has to sponsor at least 14 sports - every sport costs money. So by your token, the huge amount of fans that show up at Texas State for baseball, or at multiple sports for Old Dominion (women's basketball, and soccer and multiple other sportsare huge there), or volleyball and wrestling at Northern Iowa, or hockey plus multiple other sports at Cornell, should be rejected.

As far as your personal attacks on me, does that mean that most bison fans on bisonville are nano-people because of their perpetual smack attacks on UND. Is that why NDSU does well in nanotech? (there, just giving NDSU some institutional credit for its nano-technology!)

We smack UND because most of their sports teams are not doing so hot right now. And cause they tried following us thinking moving to D1 is easy and really, it is pretty hard. People like you and DaveK don't help UND's cause. Numerous times on this board I have said UND has a lot to be proud of, a very good hockey program. A good place to go to get your degree, etc. Yet you feel the need to trash NDSU fans because we have the same mindset as almost every single D1 FCS/FBS has. 28 of the 245 members of FBS/FCS have hockey programs. That is a very low percentage. That is a reason that most people simply don't care. For the average American male sports fan, he won't be able to tell you who was even in the Frozen Four. He won't know who won your guys biggest day of the year! He won't know who won the FCS either, but we don't parade around bragging how everyone and their sister loves NDSU. UND feels the need to because hockey is all you guys got going for you right now.

I dont care if it shows UND in a good light. All I said was seeing the numbers on football/basketball would be nice because those are far and away the two most popular sports in college athletics.

U of M was our super bowl during the transition, now it isn't. At least not for the reasonable fans who would rather see a conference title than an FBS win. This thread is going nowhere because of your weird anti-coresport comparison. That is a comparison that has merit. The total attendence is very politically correct cause it counts every sport, but people generally would like to see the "big sport" comparisons. Such as, Notre Dame has X number of fans per year at football and basketball, I wonder how well they are doing in comparison to Auburn, Oh! Auburn is bringing in Y number. Thats not bad, but looks like Texas is leading the way.

[JohnboyND7]

This part really had me laughing. NDSU is larger in enrollment, but the % increase is very tiny since Joe Chapman left, yet UND % increase is a lot larger, your sports teams are better than ours. Lets see football..yes, basketball...that one game UND-NDSU yes, UND did go to the CIT tourny. Volleyball...Who got an @ss kicking a couple weeks ago. Football on tv. KVLY vs Fox College Sports. Yep no contest. 30,000 in the metrodome sure if it your team, but UND isn't allowed to play Minny due to their BS policy however we pack the Xcel or Marriucci when we play them too.

Good job filling the Xcel, if the Timberwolves can fill it I would hope two hockey schools from closeby could fill it for their conference tournement.

[darell1976]

Good job filling the Xcel, if the Timberwolves can fill it I would hope two hockey schools from closeby could fill it for their conference tournement.

Timberwolves play at the Target Center. But let me guess NDSU could fill that with 30,000 people. :lol:

[star2city]

Most people at NDSU embrace the agricultural background. Strip club analogy was funny, can't deny that some NDSU athletes have had some trouble with the law.

Strip club analogy also applies to the BSA: bison fans have to strip down to their skivvies (or worse) just to keep from overheating.

Just the thought of a few thousand bison fans sitting around naked watching a basketball game:

And to think that when I heard bison fans complain about the poor BSA bleacher conditions and all the cracks, thought they meant something else.

[star2city]

We smack UND because most of their sports teams are not doing so hot right now. And cause they tried following us thinking moving to D1 is easy and really, it is pretty hard. People like you and DaveK don't help UND's cause. Numerous times on this board I have said UND has a lot to be proud of, a very good hockey program. A good place to go to get your degree, etc. Yet you feel the need to trash NDSU fans because we have the same mindset as almost every single D1 FCS/FBS has. 28 of the 245 members of FBS/FCS have hockey programs. That is a very low percentage. That is a reason that most people simply don't care. For the average American male sports fan, he won't be able to tell you who was even in the Frozen Four. He won't know who won your guys biggest day of the year! He won't know who won the FCS either, but we don't parade around bragging how everyone and their sister loves NDSU. UND feels the need to because hockey is all you guys got going for you right now.

I dont care if it shows UND in a good light. All I said was seeing the numbers on football/basketball would be nice because those are far and away the two most popular sports in college athletics.

Two neighboring farmers have oil on their land: one owns mineral rights, the other doesn't. Athletics are as much about finances as they are about the actual game. Which farmer is going to have a better economic future, all else being equal? If UND hockey fans were getting into the games free, then you might actually have a point.

You need a history lesson: the reason my writings are detested on bisonville is that I have a proven track record vs bisonville conventional "wisdom":

When all bisonville was stating they were a lock for the Big Sky, I said they would not get in.

When all bisonville was stating they weren't even sure they'd get in the Summit, I said they were a lock.

When all bisonville was stating that there was no way that UND would go DI because of money, I said it would and the Big Sky was interested.

When all bisonville was stating that hockey and women's hockey forces would stop UND from going DI, I said hockey forces (in the know) actually needed UND to go DI (if a Big Ten Hockey league was to form).

When all bisonville was stating UND would never ever get in the Big Sky, I said they would.

When all bisonville was stating that UND's satellite capabilities wouldn't matter for conference or for a TV deal, I said they would matter greatly.

Your problem is that you listen to bisonville conventional "wisdom" , so you too, will be proven a fool.

My writings aren't especially popular here right now either (especially by me stating that Kelley undermined the Sioux name with Big Sky and Summit Presidents.) But history will also prove that correct, too.

[darell1976]

Two neighboring farmers have oil on their land: one owns mineral rights, the other doesn't. Athletics are as much about finances as they are about the actual game. If UND hockey fans were getting into the games free, then you might actually have a point.

You need a history lesson: the reason my writings are detested on bisonville is that I have a proven track record vs bisonville conventional "wisdom":

When all bisonville was stating they were a lock for the Big Sky, I said they would not get in.

When all bisonville was stating they weren't even sure they'd get in the Summit, I said they were a lock.

When all bisonville was stating that there was no way that UND would go DI because of money, I said it would and the Big Sky was interested.

When all bisonville was stating that hockey and women's hockey forces would stop UND from going DI, I said hockey forces (in the know) actually needed UND to go DI (if a Big Ten Hockey league was to form).

When all bisonville was stating UND would never ever get in the Big Sky, I said they would.

When all bisonville was stating that UND's satellite capabilities wouldn't matter for conference or for a TV deal, I said they would matter greatly.

Your problem is that you listen to bisonville conventional "wisdom" , so you too, will be proven a fool.

My writings aren't especially popular here right now either (especially by me stating that Kelley undermined the Sioux name with Big Sky Presidents.) But history will also prove that correct.

All mighty star2city....please reveal what next seaon will hold for UND athletics?? Will we be dancing on the court, will we be headed to Frisco, TX? Please tell us oh great one. No seriously what do you think.

[star2city]

All mighty star2city....please reveal what next seaon will hold for UND athletics?? Will we be dancing on the court, will we be headed to Frisco, TX? Please tell us oh great one. No seriously what do you think.

Just do like I do: find out what Bisonville is predicting for us, and reverse it.

[darell1976]

Just do like I do: find out what Bisonville is predicting for us, and reverse it.

+1 for that!!

[Shawn-O]

...and yes even Craig Dahl.

Who the hell is Craig Dahl?

[JohnboyND7]

Two neighboring farmers have oil on their land: one owns mineral rights, the other doesn't. Athletics are as much about finances as they are about the actual game. Which farmer is going to have a better economic future, all else being equal? If UND hockey fans were getting into the games free, then you might actually have a point.

Hard to argue which one has the mineral rights then. NDSU has more successful programs. UND has one extremely successful program and volleyball is good too. But to say one is better than the other is false in every way. NDSU's basketball program is better, that was made obvious in the dome last year, and don't use the transition as an excuse, Woodside and Company were from our transition and they were our best team ever. Our team is roughly as young as UND's is now and in Grand Forks this year I would assume NDSU will be favored. Our football team is better, right now it is day and night, some years it is close, some years UND is better. But since about '05 or '06 NDSU has been better, '09 would be close, I'd give neither side an edge. NDSU and UND volleyball is close, I'd say its a matter of which team plays with a chip on their shoulder that night. UND hockey obviously.........well we all know about them. A really good team.

I can see where you are coming from, UND should theoretically be better because of all the extra money they have right now. You know who else has a lot of money. The UND everyone knows, The University of Notre Dame has more money than almost anyone else and they aren't what they once were. It has been a rough time to be an Irish fan, I would know. Money isn't everything, you have to be at a place where the players want to be. Sometimes that place is NDSU, sometimes its UND. It honestly goes in cycles which pisses us all off. To UND fans, UND usually has better teams and NDSU gets lucky. To us, NDSU has better teams and we find a way to screw it up ( I know I believe that but I am smart enough to know I am wrong). Lets all take a chill pill and quit pissing on each other. We all hate one another but like seriously guys, I took a nap today and it was like a voice told me, you guys should all quit being douches(especially me, DaveK, and Star2City). I still hate your athletic program. Rant over. NDSU Rocks. UND Sucks. (DISCLAIMER: I may be wrong about the two depending on which year you read this.)

[JohnboyND7]

Who the hell is Craig Dahl?

Craig Dahl is one of 2 NDSU players who have a super bowl ring. Tyrone Braxton has two, Craig Dahl played with the Giants when they beat the Pats, unfortunately, he had a torn ACL that game, otherwise he was a starter or at least a contributor throughout the season. He starts for the Rams now. He is a solid player I'd say, nothing special though. I am assuming you actually didn't know who he was, I never noticed him as a great player and I go to all the home games. Apparently I was wrong.

[Cratter]

Hard to argue which one has the mineral rights then. NDSU has more successful programs.

You really aren't the brightest bulb are you?

You can't grasp the concept that it isn't how "successful" a sport team is. "Success" is relative; it changes. Its not quantitative.

Its about attendance (the topic of this thread go figure). UND has the mineral rights because UND has more money. UND and its vastly superior wisdom choose the correct sports for UND to sponsor. It chose a money making sport. NDSU did not they chose wrestling.

And with that money you will continue to see UND skyrock. New on campus football stadium, new basketball arena (the betty), new indoor football practice facility, national tv contract. I would ask if you get the picture but something tells me I already know the answer.

[The Sicatoka]

You seem to think it is a 2nd-class institution in comparison to UND. If that was true, NDSU would be smaller(its not), its sports teams would be worse(ours are currently better), no one would care(17,000 cared last week), we wouldn't be on tv(we are in ND), and no one would travel to watch(30,000 in the metrodome).

Wow. Just .. wow.

You seem to think enrollment and athletics make an institution.

In that case Stanford and Duke are lessers of UND and NDSU (check undergraduate enrollments).

And MIT, Johns Hopkins, Emory, and the University of Chicago would be lessers because they play in DIII.

[The Sicatoka]

If NDSU basketball could sell beer and give away tickets like the Force do attendance would be much higher.

Q: What's stopping NDSU from playing hockey (and selling beer) at Scheel's Arena.

A: The fear amongst Bison Football supporters that some of their own would migrate from football to hockey.

[FargoBison]

Q: What's stopping NDSU from playing hockey (and selling beer) at Scheel's Arena.

A: The fear amongst Bison Football supporters that some of their own would migrate from football to hockey.

Beer won't be sold at any NDSU sporting event, off or on campus unless some major changes occur within the school. The football supporters are not blocking hockey.