POLL: Should UND-NDSU Resume the Football Series?

[darell1976]

We've had this discussion before, but here it is again. There would be no additional revenue for NDSU. In fact NDSU would lose revenue because of the loss of one home game every x years.

As far as rejuvenating interest among Bison fans, eliminating UND from NDSU's schedule seems to have had exactly that effect. Fan interest in Bison football has never been higher than it is right now.

So NDSU doesn't gain more money if it was UND at NDSU than Wagner at NDSU?? Wouldn't the community of Fargo gain more? How many UND fans would shop and spend money in the FM community compared to Wagner fans? And if your biggest argument is we lose a home game it's called life. Not every year you will have 2 home games I believe FU had one in their 3-8 season an the program survived didn't it?

[Gothmog]

That may be true, but what seems more justified? A $25 season ticket price increase with Western Carolina on the schedule or with UND on the schedule. I guarantee nobody bats an eye at the increase if UND's on the schedule but it may not seem to be worth the extra money just to see Western Carolina or St Francis.

Markets make that sort of judgement very efficiently. If people won't pay more for it, it really doesn't make any diference whether you believe that a game vs UND is "worth" more than a game vs Western Carolina, or not.

[southpaw]

No, you're missing the point. The additional revenue from a few "walk-ups" could not possibly replace the lost revenue from a whole home game that would be lost every 2 (or perhaps 4) years.

How much does NDSU make now on a non-conference home game? How much do they pay to bring in a Prairie View A&M, or a Wagner? How many season ticket holders does NDSU have?

Let's get some real numbers in here and do the actual math.

[Gothmog]

So NDSU doesn't gain more money if it was UND at NDSU than Wagner at NDSU?? Wouldn't the community of Fargo gain more? How many UND fans would shop and spend money in the FM community compared to Wagner fans? And if your biggest argument is we lose a home game it's called life. Not every year you will have 2 home games I believe FU had one in their 3-8 season an the programmed survived didn't it?

And how many NDSU fans would shop and spend money in GF every other year? That's just as much a loss to Fargo as the GF spending is a gain.

[jodcon]

That's not premium pricing. It's just an increase in season ticket prices, which they could likely do with, or without, scheduling UND. The flawed premise here is that NDSU could charge more for tickets BECAUSE of UND being on the schedule. I don't think that's true.

You're missing the point, I'm just stating that when you have certain rivalry games that people are willing to pay more for you can increase prices across the board including walk-up and increase revenue for those games, in this case UND would be a game that would fit that scenario, whereas some OOC who nobody has ever heard of would not.

No, you're missing the point. The additional revenue from a few "walk-ups" could not possibly replace the lost revenue from a whole home game that would be lost every 2 (or perhaps 4) years.

Read this again. Were we even talking about any kind of series? If you don't think NDSU could charge an extra $5 or more per head for a home game against UND regardless if it was walk-up or added into season ticket prices then I guess I'm wrong.

[darell1976]

And how many NDSU fans would shop and spend money in GF every other year? That's just as much a loss to Fargo as the GF spending is a gain.

So NDSU fans won't eat at restaurants, go to the Sioux Shop at the Ralph (there are Bison fans that love UND hockey) go to Super Target (FM doesn't have one). The numbers would be about the same either way.

[Gothmog]

Read this again. Were we even talking about any kind of series? If you don't think NDSU could charge an extra $5 or more per head for a home game against UND regardless if it was walk-up or added into season ticket prices then I guess I'm wrong.

No, I don't think that NDSU could charge 15 cents more per season ticket because UND was on the schedule. Single game tickets are different, their value is much more complex -- the Youngstown State game this year would have brought a huge premium, other years not so much. In any case, they could already be charging more for other "premium" games, such as SDSU, if they were so inclined.

[Gothmog]

So NDSU fans won't eat at restaurants, go to the Sioux Shop at the Ralph (there are Bison fans that love UND hockey) go to Super Target (FM doesn't have one). The numbers would be about the same either way.

So, it's a zero sum game.

[VMeister]

Let's get some real numbers in here and do the actual math.

You don't need real numbers to do the math. If you take out the benefit to the community and expectations for a certain number of home games...and just consider gross ticket sales:

As soon as you pay more than 50% of the gate to the visiting team, a home and home would be more beneficial.

[dmksioux]

No, I don't think that NDSU could charge 15 cents more per season ticket because UND was on the schedule. Single game tickets are different, their value is much more complex -- the Youngstown State game this year would have brought a huge premium, other years not so much. In any case, they could already be charging more for other "premium" games, such as SDSU, if they were so inclined.

If there is a waiting list on NDSU football tix, people will pay the added cost for premium tix...even if it was an extra $10 for season tickets when UND is on the schedule. If they chose not to, someone in the waiting list will. It's why UND is able to raise the price of hockey tix. If current season ticket holders aren't willing to pay up, someone on the waiting list will.

[Gothmog]

If there is a waiting list on NDSU football tix, people will pay the added cost for premium tix...even if it was an extra $10 for season tickets when UND is on the schedule. If they chose not to, someone in the waiting list will. It's why UND is able to raise the price of hockey tix. If current season ticket holders aren't willing to pay up, someone on the waiting list will.

That makes no sense at all. You could say exactly the same thing for just raising ticket prices without adding UND to the schedule.

[UNDColorado]

Denver charges their season ticket holders more when UND is in town.

[Gothmog]

Denver charges their season ticket holders more when UND is in town.

How do they do that? Normally you pay for your season tickets in advance ... one price for all of them.

[UND1983]

How do they do that? Normally you pay for your season tickets in advance ... one price for all of them.

What is so hard to understand? In the years UND comes to town they probably bump the overall price for the season ticket by $25 or $30 dollars. If anyone asks why, they are told why. The price of that game's ticket is factored into the overall season ticket price.

[jodcon]

That makes no sense at all. You could say exactly the same thing for just raising ticket prices without adding UND to the schedule.

The point is you could justify raising ticket prices and nobody would balk IF you add games which the public finds attractive.

If your home OOC games were against a team the public wanted to see, like UND, Montana, App. State, etc...people would be willing to pay a little more to see those opponents because they are well-known to the general public rather than teams like Prairie View and such. If that cost you another $10/ year for your season ticket nobody would care, if you raised prices $10 and brought in a couple crap teams nobody knows people might grumble.

[jodcon]

What is so hard to understand? In the years UND comes to town they probably bump the overall price for the season ticket by $25 or $30 dollars. If anyone asks why, they are told why. The price of that game's ticket is factored into the overall season ticket price.

Exactly, why is that so hard to understand?

[UNDColorado]

How do they do that? Normally you pay for your season tickets in advance ... one price for all of them.

Each ticket has a pre-determined value but you still buy them as a package. The tickets that I purchased for that series out here in Denver were actually season tickets and they had a premium price of $10 more per ticket. $45 / ticket after all said and done...most expensive ticket they sell all year and believe it or not people buy them.

[UND1983]

Exactly, why is that so hard to understand?

Quite obvious they have never had to deal with ticket demand/premium pricing before the past couple years. They are only costing themselves money that people would gladly give them. Whatever.

[Gothmog]

You don't need real numbers to do the math. If you take out the benefit to the community and expectations for a certain number of home games...and just consider gross ticket sales:

As soon as you pay more than 50% of the gate to the visiting team, a home and home would be more beneficial.

That makes no sense. Let's say that gross ticket revenue = $500K, the fee to the visiting team = $300K, and other expenses = $100K. Are you says that because 300 is 60% of 500, NDSU would be better off to get zero net profit in the off years of a home and home with UND, than they would to pocket $100K ($500K - $300K - $100K) by paying an FCS school to come to Fargo?

[Gothmog]

What is so hard to understand? In the years UND comes to town they probably bump the overall price for the season ticket by $25 or $30 dollars. If anyone asks why, they are told why. The price of that game's ticket is factored into the overall season ticket price.

You're not getting it. They could do that anyway, without adding UND to the schedule. They don't really need an explanation, the market will bear what it will bear.

[darell1976]

So, it's a zero sum game.

How much money does NDSU make per home game (ballpark is fine) because if its less than 250-300k NDSU doesn't make money on home games. Now you lure in UND in an every year rivalry series (pay per road team very minimal 100k) wouldn't NDSU make money even if it was vs UND at FBS vs FCS. Because vs FCS vs FCS at FBS you have up to 600k to pay for the FCS teams to come to Fargo so you would have to hope the FBS payday will be huge.

Example:

NDSU at K-State NDSU gets 350k http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/2011-05-10-1664688373_x.htm

NDSU vs FCS team #1 (NDSU pays 250-300k)

NDSU at UND NDSU gets 150,000 (assuming NDSU-UND gets 150 per road team)

Or NDSU at K-State NDSU +350k

NDSU vs FCS NDSU -250-300k

NDSU vs FCS #2 NDSU -250-300k

Finally NDSU at KSU +350k

NDSU vs FCS #1 -250-300k

NDSU vs UND NDSU -150k

Total:

Scenario #1 +200-250k

Scenario #2 -150- -250k

Scenario #3 -50 - 100k

Looks like a no brainer for scenario #1 but you need those home games.

[UND1983]

You're not getting it. They could do that anyway, without adding UND to the schedule. They don't really need an explanation, the market will bear what it will bear.

Now it does. NDSU is in a once/lifetime situation for popularity. Once it goes back to normal, then they cannot markup their tickets without backlash and will do what everyone else does and markup premium games to get that extra jolt of cash. Or should I say "could" markup their tix. Apparently they don't know about that concept.

[Gothmog]

Now it does. NDSU is in a once/lifetime situation for popularity. Once it goes back to normal, then they cannot markup their tickets without backlash and will do what everyone else does and markup premium games to get that extra jolt of cash.

As I've said before, IMO Bison fans are not going to be willing to pay more for a season ticket BECAUSE UND is on the schedule. You're all focused on cooking up a plausible explanation for a ticket increase. What you should be focused on is what is the consumer willing to pay...what does he/she perceive as having value. NDSU can raise ticket prices for whatever reason it thinks is appropriate. Consumer demand will determine whether it was a good idea.

[Gothmog]

How much money does NDSU make per home game (ballpark is fine) because if its less than 250-300k NDSU doesn't make money on home games. Now you lure in UND in an every year rivalry series (pay per road team very minimal 100k) wouldn't NDSU make money even if it was vs UND at FBS vs FCS. Because vs FCS vs FCS at FBS you have up to 600k to pay for the FCS teams to come to Fargo so you would have to hope the FBS payday will be huge.

Example:

NDSU at K-State NDSU gets 350k http://usatoday30.us...664688373_x.htm

NDSU vs FCS team #1 (NDSU pays 250-300k)

NDSU at UND NDSU gets 150,000 (assuming NDSU-UND gets 150 per road team)

Or NDSU at K-State NDSU +350k

NDSU vs FCS NDSU -250-300k

NDSU vs FCS #2 NDSU -250-300k

Finally NDSU at KSU +350k

NDSU vs FCS #1 -250-300k

NDSU vs UND NDSU -150k

Total:

Scenario #1 +200-250k

Scenario #2 -150- -250k

Scenario #3 -50 - 100k

Looks like a no brainer for scenario #1 but you need those home games.

And where do those numbers come from?

[darell1976]

As I've said before, IMO Bison fans are not going to be willing to pay more for a season ticket BECAUSE UND is on the schedule. You're all focused on cooking up a plausible explanation for a ticket increase. What you should be focused on is what is the consumer willing to pay...what does he/she perceive as having value. NDSU can raise ticket prices for whatever reason it thinks is appropriate. Consumer demand will determine whether it was a good idea.

I think Bison fans will pay more whoever is on the field. What else are you going to do in fall...cheer on your volleyball team? Football is #1 at NDSU...you win they will pay anything. You lose..they will still pay anything.