JohnboyND7 Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 Backing out does suck (UND had Idaho St and Central Arkansas do this) but this is two years in a row of scheduling problems. GT is playing with fire and soon may be forced to pull an UNI and schedule a DII team for an 11th game or just play 10 and hope for a 10-0 record. So if Montana buys out the UND game this fall, and for some odd reason, next year someone else does, does that mean Mr. Faison is playing with fire?
Gothmog Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 Backing out does suck (UND had Idaho St and Central Arkansas do this) but this is two years in a row of scheduling problems. GT is playing with fire and soon may be forced to pull an UNI and schedule a DII team for an 11th game or just play 10 and hope for a 10-0 record. Give it a rest! NDSU will do what it needs to do to fill out their schedule. But, there's always going to be a danger that one of their OOC games will be bought out at the last minute. If Gene is "playing with fire", so is nearly every other college football team in the country...including UND.
darell1976 Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 Give it a rest! NDSU will do what it needs to do to fill out their schedule. But, there's always going to be a danger that one of their OOC games will be bought out at the last minute. If Gene is "playing with fire", so is nearly every other college football team in the country...including UND. The playing with fire comment was not having UND on the schedule every year proposed years ago but nope GT wanted it his way well I hope it bites him in the ass.
Gothmog Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 The playing with fire comment was not having UND on the schedule every year proposed years ago but nope GT wanted it his way well I hope it bites him in the ass. OK. How is not having UND on the schedule every year "playing with fire?" Scheduling UND would reduce the risk that NDSU would end up with an open date, or be forced to schedule a lower level team, but not eliminate it. They would still have at least 2 OOC games that could be cancelled. As would UND, and almost every other team in the country.
darell1976 Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 OK. How is not having UND on the schedule every year "playing with fire?" Scheduling UND would reduce the risk that NDSU would end up with an open date, or be forced to schedule a lower level team, but not eliminate it. They would still have at least 2 OOC games that could be cancelled. As would UND, and almost every other team in the country. You have 3 OOC games: FBS (how often are those bought out), UND and an FCS. So that there leaves GT to schedule 1 team in the FCS. There are over 100 teams to pick and if he can't do it that's his problem. Also you don't play 1 team in the MVFC that is another option.
Gothmog Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 You have 3 OOC games: FBS (how often are those bought out), UND and an FCS. So that there leaves GT to schedule 1 team in the FCS. There are over 100 teams to pick and if he can't do it that's his problem. Also you don't play 1 team in the MVFC that is another option. True enough...but it still doesn't explain how GT is playing with fire. If, for instance, both UND and Western Carolina were on the schedule this year (i.e. UND replaced MSU on the schedule which seems the more likely scenario), the situation would not be any different than it is now.
darell1976 Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 True enough...but it still doesn't explain how GT is playing with fire. If, for instance, both UND and Western Carolina were on the schedule this year (i.e. UND replaced MSU on the schedule which seems the more likely scenario), the situation would not be any different than it is now. He is playing with fire by shutting the door altogether on UND a DI team. What if both WCU and MSU both blackout then you have 2 replacement games to find instead of one. If you close the door on a cheap game that you know won't blackout ( the state won't allow that) then you are setting yourself up for trouble.
Gothmog Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 He is playing with fire by shutting the door altogether on UND a DI team. What if both WCU and MSU both blackout then you have 2 replacement games to find instead of one. If you close the door on a cheap game that you know won't blackout ( the state won't allow that) then you are setting yourself up for trouble. As long as you have OOC games -- and NDSU always will -- the potential trouble is going to be there. It can be mitigated, but not eliminated. Gene Taylor is not playing with fire any more than any other AD, including Brian Faison. The real problem here is that Western Carolina cancelled, or is about to cancel, very late in the game, after other schools, including UND, have set their schedules. A greater willingness to schedule UND would not have helped the situation at all.
southpaw Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 As long as you have OOC games -- and NDSU always will -- the potential trouble is going to be there. It can be mitigated, but not eliminated. Gene Taylor is not playing with fire any more than any other AD, including Brian Faison. The real problem here is that Western Carolina cancelled, or is about to cancel, very late in the game, after other schools, including UND, have set their schedules. A greater willingness to schedule UND would not have helped the situation at all. Unless if that Western Carolina game had never been scheduled because NDSU didn't need it because they were already playing UND.
Gothmog Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 Unless if that Western Carolina game had never been scheduled because NDSU didn't need it because they were already playing UND. But how would NDSU know which school was going to cancel? Montana State was just as likely to cancel as Western Carolina, perhaps more. As long as you have OOC games, there's a risk that one might be cancelled. For instance, what would have prevented UND from cancelling?
UND-FB-FAN Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 This should be an OOC rivalry game played every year. I don't agree that UND and NDSU, only 70 miles from each other, are suddenly better off not playing each other, no matter what the two programs have or haven't recently accomplished. The revenue the hosting institution would make for that weekend would dwarf any other regular season game and it would only rejuvenate interest in both UND and NDSU fan bases; although I do agree there is more potential in that department for UND. It was only a year ago when "sioux suck sh*t" chants were being yelled in Fargo. I'm pretty sure that indicates UND is not completely off the mind of NDSU fans and players. UND-NDSU should happen and I don't think there is any question it will eventually happen, but not in 2013.
Gothmog Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 This should be an OOC rivalry game played every year. I don't agree that UND and NDSU, only 70 miles from each other, are suddenly better off not playing each other, no matter what the two programs have or haven't recently accomplished. The revenue the hosting institution would make for that weekend would dwarf any other regular season game and it would only rejuvenate interest in both UND and NDSU fan bases; although I do agree there is more potential in that department for UND. It was only a year ago when "sioux suck sh*t" chants were being yelled in Fargo. I'm pretty sure that indicates UND is not completely off the mind of NDSU fans and players. UND-NDSU should happen and I don't think there is any question it will eventually happen, but not in 2013. We've had this discussion before, but here it is again. There would be no additional revenue for NDSU. In fact NDSU would lose revenue because of the loss of one home game every x years. As far as rejuvenating interest among Bison fans, eliminating UND from NDSU's schedule seems to have had exactly that effect. Fan interest in Bison football has never been higher than it is right now.
jdub27 Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 We've had this discussion before, but here it is again. There would be no additional revenue for NDSU. In fact NDSU would lose revenue because of the loss of one home game every x years. Except you don't have to pay a $250K+ guarantee the year there is a home game and you can charge more for the UND game (dynamic pricing). Not sure how many times people have done the actual math to show that NDSU doesn't lose money in this scenario, but apparently you missed it.
Gothmog Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 Except you don't have to pay a $250K+ guarantee the year there is a home game and you can charge more for the UND game (dynamic pricing). Not sure how many times people have done the actual math to show that NDSU doesn't lose money in this scenario. Math based on numbers picked out of thin air. There's never been any evidence that NDSU could, or would, charge more for tickets if UND were added to the schedule. In fact, the history of the last few years seems to indicate that Bison fans are quite happy with things as they are. WIthout significantly increased ticket prices, no scenario results in NDSU being financially better off playing UND.
Bison Dan Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 Except you don't have to pay a $250K+ guarantee the year there is a home game and you can charge more for the UND game (dynamic pricing). Not sure how many times people have done the actual math to show that NDSU doesn't lose money in this scenario, but apparently you missed it. Why would we want to jump start interest in your fb program by playing you? Your gain and we have nothing to gain.
jdub27 Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 Math based on numbers picked out of thin air. There's never been any evidence that NDSU could, or would, charge more for tickets if UND were added to the schedule. In fact, the history of the last few years seems to indicate that Bison fans are quite happy with things as they are. WIthout significantly increased ticket prices, no scenario results in NDSU being financially better off playing UND. And what numbers are you using to show that they are losing money? The price for bringing teams will only go up and NDSU's margin on games will keep shrinking unless they raise ticket prices. NDSU already charges more for certain basketball games, so obviously the athletic department isn't adverse to doing it, they just haven't yet for football. Frankly, I'm surprised they don't (I guess I haven't cared to look at their single game ticket prices to verify), but if they want to leave money on the table for SDSU, UNI and homecoming games, fine by me.
Gothmog Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 And what numbers are you using to show that they are losing money? The price for bringing teams will only go up and NDSU's margin on games will keep shrinking unless they raise ticket prices. NDSU already charges more for certain basketball games, so obviously the athletic department isn't adverse to doing it, they just haven't yet for football. Frankly, I'm surprised they don't (I guess I haven't cared to look at their single game ticket prices to verify), but if they want to leave money on the table for SDSU, UNI and homecoming games, fine by me. What you're missing is that NDSU is selling mostly season tickets -- one price for all the games. That makes so-called "dynamic" or "premium" pricing pointless. However, your point about SDSU and UNI is right, if NDSU was inclined to engage in premium pricing, it would already be doing so with SDSU, UNI, and maybe others.
jodcon Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 You factor it into the season ticket prices, most football programs and some other programs have certain rivalry games that they charge more for and whatever that is they tack on the season ticket price, it's probably only $10 per year so nobody even notices. It's pretty common, Montana does it for MSU and I believe EWU, UND does it for Minnesota and Denver, etc...
WeAreNorthDakota Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 And at this point, NDSU is maxed out. There's very little they can do besides increasing prices across the board. Bohl just got a big raise and was guaranteed top assistant coach budgets. Without another high revenue sport NDSU is going to have to make more money with the football program.
Gothmog Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 You factor it into the season ticket prices, most football programs and some other programs have certain rivalry games that they charge more for and whatever that is they tack on the season ticket price, it's probably only $10 per year so nobody even notices. It's pretty common, Montana does it for MSU and I believe EWU, UND does it for Minnesota and Denver, etc... That's not premium pricing. It's just an increase in season ticket prices, which they could likely do with, or without, scheduling UND. The flawed premise here is that NDSU could charge more for tickets BECAUSE of UND being on the schedule. I don't think that's true.
jodcon Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 And at this point, NDSU is maxed out. There's very little they can do besides increasing prices across the board. Bohl just got a big raise and was guaranteed top assistant coach budgets. Without another high revenue sport NDSU is going to have to make more money with the football program. And this is one of the problems with getting them to agree to future home-and-home series, football is their cash cow and it's in their best interests to get the extra game at home every year, that's logical from a business point.
jodcon Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 That's not premium pricing. It's just an increase in season ticket prices, which they could likely do with, or without, scheduling UND. The flawed premise here is that NDSU could charge more for tickets BECAUSE of UND being on the schedule. I don't think that's true. You're missing the point, I'm just stating that when you have certain rivalry games that people are willing to pay more for you can increase prices across the board including walk-up and increase revenue for those games, in this case UND would be a game that would fit that scenario, whereas some OOC who nobody has ever heard of would not.
WeAreNorthDakota Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 That's not premium pricing. It's just an increase in season ticket prices, which they could likely do with, or without, scheduling UND. The flawed premise here is that NDSU could charge more for tickets BECAUSE of UND being on the schedule. I don't think that's true. That may be true, but what seems more justified? A $25 season ticket price increase with Western Carolina on the schedule or with UND on the schedule. I guarantee nobody bats an eye at the increase if UND's on the schedule but it may not seem to be worth the extra money just to see Western Carolina or St Francis.
Gothmog Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 You're missing the point, I'm just stating that when you have certain rivalry games that people are willing to pay more for you can increase prices across the board including walk-up and increase revenue for those games, in this case UND would be a game that would fit that scenario, whereas some OOC who nobody has ever heard of would not. No, you're missing the point. The additional revenue from a few "walk-ups" could not possibly replace the lost revenue from a whole home game that would be lost every 2 (or perhaps 4) years.
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