POLL: Should UND-NDSU Resume the Football Series?

[82SiouxGuy]

Good lord, I hate to post in this thread. I've been pretty consistent over the years about my desire to NOT schedule NDSU in football. IMO it doesn't greatly help either program in football like it does in every other common sport. But I grow tired of hearing how it would be financial loser for NDSU to play North Dakota every other year in football.

I'll use round numbers to make it simple...............

If NDSU bought an NEC, Patriot League, Pioneer Leage, or OVC team for it's home non-conference game over 4 years:

• With attendance of 18,000 (near capacity) at $20 per seat NDSU would gross $1,440,000 over 4 years
  
• Assuming a conservative payout cost of $125,000 to buy an opponent each year, total cost would be $500,000
  
• Over 4 years, that is a net profit of $940,000
  
  If NDSU and UND played home-and-home every other year over 4 years:
  • With attendance of 19,000 (capacity) at $25 per seat (a very modest dynamic pricing model) NDSU would gross $950,000 over 4 years
    
  • They would have no expense except the cost of a 70 mile bus trip
    
  • Over 4 years, that is a net profit of $950,000
    

  Additionaly, this doesn't account for the extra media coverage that a series would produce. At the very least, it would GUARANTEE at least one more televised game for both schools each year that it was played.

  It is really too bad that NDSU doesn't have competent administrators that understand the "dynamic pricing" model for tickets. They are about the only school in our loosely defined region that hasn't adopted the model. As I recall, Minnesota Gopher fans could not purchase tickets to see their hated rival Iowa Hawkeyes play in Minneapolis without also buying tickets to see the Gophers play NDSU......................

  This is a point I've tried to make several times. But we should make a small adjustment. Some of those seats go to students and I believe that student tickets are free. Let's say 3,000 student tickets per game. For the 4 home games that would add up to $240,000 that you need to take off the $940,000, which leaves about $700,000. For the home and home that's only $120,000 off the $950,000, for a net of $830,000. Looks better for the home and home. And you will have other expenses for each game, and having 2 games versus 4 means less expenses for the home and home over the 4 purchased games.

[bincitysioux]

But we should make a small adjustment. Some of those seats go to students and I believe that student tickets are free. Let's say 3,000 student tickets per game.

I believe that NDSU reserves 3,800 (20% of seats) for students, while North Dakota reserves 2,600 (21% of seats) for students. Pretty much a wash if I have my figures straight........................right?

[82SiouxGuy]

I believe that NDSU reserves 3,800 (20% of seats) for students, while North Dakota reserves 2,600 (21% of seats) for students. Pretty much a wash if I have my figures straight........................right?

Pretty much a wash between the schools. But pulling the student seats out at NDSU games show an even bigger margin over the 4 years for the home and home with UND versus paying 4 stiffs to come and play. Just trying to help emphasize your point a little bit.

[bincitysioux]

Pretty much a wash between the schools. But pulling the student seats out at NDSU games show an even bigger margin over the 4 years for the home and home with UND versus paying 4 stiffs to come and play. Just trying to help emphasize your point a little bit.

I get what you are saying..................................

[Smoggy]

As I recall, Minnesota Gopher fans could not purchase tickets to see their hated rival Iowa Hawkeyes play in Minneapolis without also buying tickets to see the Gophers play NDSU......................

That is also done because so many Iowa fans come up.

[bincitysioux]

I just realized that the numbers I've been using are assuming that there is a North Dakota-NDSU football game on an ANNUAL BASIS. So over a 4 year span, each team would get two home games.

Now I know what the average Bisonville poster feels like...............................

So here's what I came up with now:

If North Dakota and NDSU NEVER played over a 4 year span:

• With an attendance of 18,000 @ $20 per seat NDSU would gross $1,440,000 in revenue
  
• They would incur at the very least $500,000 in expense for guarantees
  
• Net profit for NDSU over those 4 years would be $940,000
  
  If North Daktota and NDSU played EVERY OTHER YEAR over a 4 year span:
  • NDSU would host North Dakota one time (19,000 x $25) $475,000*
    
  • NDSU would "buy" a non-confence game (18,000 x $20) : $360,000
    
  • Cost for guarantee is $125,000
    
  • NDSU would travel to North dakota for the cost of bus-fare.
    
  • NDSU would "buy" a non-confernce game (18,000 x 20) : $360,000
    
  • Cost for guarnatee is $125,000
    
  • Net profit for NDSU over those 4 years would be $945,000
    

  If North Dakota and NDSU were to play every single year:

  [*]NDSU would host North Dakota (19,000 x $25): $475,000*

  [*]NDSU would ride a bus to Grand Forks

  [*]NDSU would host North Dakota (19,000 x $25): $475,000*

  [*]NDSU would ride a bus to Grand Forks'

  [*]Net profit to NDSU over those 4 years would be $950,000

  * This all assumes that NDSU's administration will someday understand and adopt the "dynamic pricing" structure that most colleges around the country have already transtioned to.

  The point is that the argument that NDSU playing UND is a "money loser" for NDSU is hogwash..............................

[Cratter]

But it would help UND and hurt NDSU. NDSU is like "Montanaesque" halfway to FBS already.

A championship erases 3-8 seasons in a second.

[bincitysioux]

But it would help UND and hurt NDSU.

Again, I hope to never give NDSU the priveledge of playing us in football.

But, how would it hurt it NDSU?

Other than to expose their A.D. for being incompetent?

[Bison Dan]

Again, I hope to never give NDSU the priveledge of playing us in football.

But, how would it hurt it NDSU?

Other than to expose their A.D. for being incompetent?

The only incompetency is your athletic dept. Remember a couple of years ago Muss and Faison refusing the every other year contract that NDSU offered. That was when we had a open schedule which is pretty much filled now. That's right UND refused to play and now they're begging to play a every other year game? Your leadership in this whole DI transition is about as screwed up as it's gets. Only someone from UND would call our AD incompetent as the facts say other wise. Face it NDSU does not need or want you. Just look at the article from UMD now do you know why no one wants to schedule you?

[UND1983]

Who said UND is begging to play every other year? If they wanted that contract, they would have took it.

How does the article from Duluth say that "nobody wants to play us"?

Are you OK Dan?

[Dagger]

NDSU more or less have said they don't need the UND game. Isn't NDSU still trying to fill their schedule for next year? Didn't NDSU scramble to fill their schedule last year too. NDSU has scrambled a lot of years to fill their schedule.

[darell1976]

NDSU more or less have said they don't need the UND game. Isn't NDSU still trying to fill their schedule for next year? Didn't NDSU scramble to fill their schedule last year too. NDSU has scrambled a lot of years to fill their schedule.

Accoding to Dom Izzo there are only 15-20 FCS teams left to schedule which is about 20 teams less than he tweeted last week. So time is running out on their 11th game. Do they choose another FBS team, do they suck it up and play a NON-DI opponent, or just play 10 games. The new soap opera continues.

[Bison06]

I just realized that the numbers I've been using are assuming that there is a North Dakota-NDSU football game on an ANNUAL BASIS. So over a 4 year span, each team would get two home games.

Now I know what the average Bisonville poster feels like...............................

So here's what I came up with now:

If North Dakota and NDSU NEVER played over a 4 year span:

• With an attendance of 18,000 @ $20 per seat NDSU would gross $1,440,000 in revenue
  
• They would incur at the very least $500,000 in expense for guarantees
  
• Net profit for NDSU over those 4 years would be $940,000
  
  If North Daktota and NDSU played EVERY OTHER YEAR over a 4 year span:
  • NDSU would host North Dakota one time (19,000 x $25) $475,000*
    
  • NDSU would "buy" a non-confence game (18,000 x $20) : $360,000
    
  • Cost for guarantee is $125,000
    
  • NDSU would travel to North dakota for the cost of bus-fare.
    
  • NDSU would "buy" a non-confernce game (18,000 x 20) : $360,000
    
  • Cost for guarnatee is $125,000
    
  • Net profit for NDSU over those 4 years would be $945,000
    

  If North Dakota and NDSU were to play every single year:

  [*]NDSU would host North Dakota (19,000 x $25): $475,000*

  [*]NDSU would ride a bus to Grand Forks

  [*]NDSU would host North Dakota (19,000 x $25): $475,000*

  [*]NDSU would ride a bus to Grand Forks'

  [*]Net profit to NDSU over those 4 years would be $950,000

  * This all assumes that NDSU's administration will someday understand and adopt the "dynamic pricing" structure that most colleges around the country have already transtioned to.

  The point is that the argument that NDSU playing UND is a "money loser" for NDSU is hogwash..............................

  Your analysis did nothing more than further prove what I have been saying all along, it is a wash financially.

  UND posters were saying NDSU was throwing money out the window by not playing UND. My contention was and always has been that we don't GAIN money from playing the game, so come up with a better argument as to why NDSU should be interested.

  There are plenty of other reason why this game should be played and I would be ecstatic to come watch the game, but NDSU gains nothing financially by playing this game.

[darell1976]

Your analysis did nothing more than further prove what I have been saying all along, it is a wash financially.

UND posters were saying NDSU was throwing money out the window by not playing UND. My contention was and always has been that we don't GAIN money from playing the game, so come up with a better argument as to why NDSU should be interested.

There are plenty of other reason why this game should be played and I would be ecstatic to come watch the game, but NDSU gains nothing financially by playing this game.

Why should Florida play Florida State? Why did Sac St play UC Davis every year? There was nothing to gain, not in the same conference, so why did they do it?

[Bison06]

Why should Florida play Florida State? Why did Sac St play UC Davis every year? There was nothing to gain, not in the same conference, so why did they do it?

What does that argument have to do with NDSU v. UND? Every situation is different, I can't speak intelligently about the non-conference scheduling strategies of those schools. What I do know is UND fans on this board seem to be throwing everything at the wall and seeing what sticks.

First we talk about financially why NDSU is making a bad decision by not playing UND, then when that is disproved we talk about the state deserves the game, then it's we are rivals we have to play each other.

I am in the camp that would like to see the game played, but UND has far more to gain than NDSU does financially. When it is a rival institution, you think twice about helping them out.

If the situation were reversed UND would be doing the exact same thing.

[darell1976]

What does that argument have to do with NDSU v. UND? Every situation is different, I can't speak intelligently about the non-conference scheduling strategies of those schools. What I do know is UND fans on this board seem to be throwing everything at the wall and seeing what sticks.

First we talk about financially why NDSU is making a bad decision by not playing UND, then when that is disproved we talk about the state deserves the game, then it's we are rivals we have to play each other.

I am in the camp that would like to see the game played, but UND has far more to gain than NDSU does financially. When it is a rival institution, you think twice about helping them out.

If the situation were reversed UND would be doing the exact same thing.

It is the same thing. Both teams are not in the same conference, both teams starting this fall will be fighting for a playoff spot, there is a lot to play for...plus media exposure which every Bison fan knows UND is much more superior than NDSU. UND at NDSU basketball...not televisied...NDSU @ UND televised on multiple channels and available across the country on Fox College Sports. Don't you think seeing NDSU on tv would help recruiting? Which is going to bring more money to the FM area UND @ NDSU or Robert Morris @ NDSU?

[bincitysioux]

Your analysis did nothing more than further prove what I have been saying all along, it is a wash financially.

UND posters were saying NDSU was throwing money out the window by not playing UND. My contention was and always has been that we don't GAIN money from playing the game, so come up with a better argument as to why NDSU should be interested.

There are plenty of other reason why this game should be played and I would be ecstatic to come watch the game, but NDSU gains nothing financially by playing this game.

You're right. Whether NDSU never plays UND, or if they play twice in 4 years, or if they play every single year, it is basically a wash.

The point of my excercise was to disprove the myth that is commonly spread by NDSU posters that any agreement to play UND would be a financial loser for NDSU.

[Bison06]

You're right. Whether NDSU never plays UND, or if they play twice in 4 years, or if they play every single year, it is basically a wash.

The point of my excercise was to disprove the myth that is commonly spread by NDSU posters that any agreement to play UND would be a financial loser for NDSU.

I gotcha, it would be interesting to see what the numbers look like from the UND side of the financial equation. Big gain for UND in playing NDSU is my guess.

Also, your equation is predicated on NDSU only getting 18,000 for the game against the other team. I believe within 5 years it simply won't matter who we are playing it will be a capacity game. Not necessarily butts in seats, but from a tickets sold perspective, which is all that matters when talking money.

[Bison06]

It is the same thing. Both teams are not in the same conference, both teams starting this fall will be fighting for a playoff spot, there is a lot to play for...plus media exposure which every Bison fan knows UND is much more superior than NDSU. UND at NDSU basketball...not televisied...NDSU @ UND televised on multiple channels and available across the country on Fox College Sports. Don't you think seeing NDSU on tv would help recruiting? Which is going to bring more money to the FM area UND @ NDSU or Robert Morris @ NDSU?

The only argument I believe makes sense is to play the game just to continue the rivalry, which IMO is enough reason to get it done. But, UND fans seem to be trying to come up with some sort of logical reason to continue the game, IMO there isn't one. It will be an emotional decision to continue the rivalry because it is fun for the fans.

[Dagger]

You can't put a price tag on the kind of exposure that game could mean. NDSU doesn't realize it. The media focus that game would have would be priceless. NDSU normally doesn't want to put big home contests on TV because it might hurt ticket sales. UND has always had a different attitude on that. Some day NDSU will wake up and smell the roses.

[darell1976]

The only argument I believe makes sense is to play the game just to continue the rivalry, which IMO is enough reason to get it done. But, UND fans seem to be trying to come up with some sort of logical reason to continue the game, IMO there isn't one. It will be an emotional decision to continue the rivalry because it is fun for the fans.

Thats the number one reason to schedule it. It would be fun to play the closest team to your school and your most hated rival. As I would like to see UND play the other Dakota teams just one game with NDSU could really get the ball rolling on renewing the rivalry.

[Bison06]

Thats the number one reason to schedule it. It would be fun to play the closest team to your school and your most hated rival. As I would like to see UND play the other Dakota teams just one game with NDSU could really get the ball rolling on renewing the rivalry.

What is the word on the Nickel if/when the Sioux name goes away? Never to be played for again I would assume. New trophy?

[darell1976]

What is the word on the Nickel if/when the Sioux name goes away? Never to be played for again I would assume. New trophy?

I do believe the Nickel is retired for good. I don't think a replacement will be there unless the two are in the same conference or agree to play every year.

[Bison06]

That was my understanding as well. The game will be played within the next 3 years I believe.

[darell1976]

That was my understanding as well. The game will be played within the next 3 years I believe.

Closest would be 2015 unless they move the NDSU-USD game to a conference game instead of non-conference in 2014 (back end of home and home). UND is full in 2013 unless they want 12 games. 2013 and 2014 are 12 game seasons for the FCS.