Another point of view of the UND vs NCAA

[darell1976]

http://www.collegesportingnews.com/content.php?466-NCAA-Misses-The-Whole-Aircraft-Carrier-on-North-Dakota-Nickname-Issue

Let me get this straight, the NCAA cannot find a way to stand up to Cam Newton as his father tries to sell him off to the highest bidder, but it thinks it is important to bother UND about its supposedly politically insensitive nickname of the Fighting Sioux

If you are a school like the Florida State Seminoles, or the Utah Utes, you throw a few tickets and some money at various tribal leaders and everything is hunky dory.

But if you are not one of the NCAA power brokers, you are viewed differently by the politically correct crowd.

[Chewey]

http://www.collegesportingnews.com/content.php?466-NCAA-Misses-The-Whole-Aircraft-Carrier-on-North-Dakota-Nickname-Issue

Awesome piece!!!!!

[Siouxfull]

This hits the nail on the head. Why is this so hard for some people to grasp? Nice to read an article that

[PhillySioux]

Arguably, this piece points out nicely why the NCAA is not going to back down. UND is big enough to attract attention but small enough to pushed around and it is the most visible school left in the NCAAs nickname crusade. Only small schools no one has heard of have actually dropped a nickname due to the 2005 policy.

UND is the hill that the NCAA will choose to die upon. Figuratively speaking.

[IrishSiouxFan]

If nickname supporters can drum up congressional support from not only North Dakota but other states it would go a long way in putting pressure on the NCAA. I'm not a fan of groups like the Tea Party, but it seems like they would support the state of North Dakota from being man-handled by a large liberal organization like the NCAA.

[darell1976]

If nickname supporters can drum up congressional support from not only North Dakota but other states it would go a long way in putting pressure on the NCAA. I'm not a fan of groups like the Tea Party, but it seems like they would support the state of North Dakota from being man-handled by a large liberal organization like the NCAA.

Like Florida, Michigan, and Utah. States that the NCAA went after in 2005.

[ScottM]

If nickname supporters can drum up congressional support from not only North Dakota but other states it would go a long way in putting pressure on the NCAA. I'm not a fan of groups like the Tea Party, but it seems like they would support the state of North Dakota from being man-handled by a large liberal organization like the NCAA.

I think you would have to at least get NoDak's current congressional delegation on board first. And we've heard nary a peep from them over the past few years. Perhaps they would be willing to expend some political capital for the people at home, rather than the K Street crowd. It's one reason the NC$$ probably views the state legislation as little more than a joke. Get them looking at Capitol Hill, and vice-versa, and they may reconsider their recent brush off.

[Fetch]

best article I have ever read from a news source on this subject - my view 100% - send it on to - to use as a example of great journalism - someone researched & hit the nail on the head

[star2city]

http://www.collegesportingnews.com/content.php?466-NCAA-Misses-The-Whole-Aircraft-Carrier-on-North-Dakota-Nickname-Issue

A piece like that, even though somewhat juvenile in tone, would never see the light of day in the Herald, which has had successive anti-nickname rants that were even more sophomoric by the Forum (editorial), Herald (editorial), Jacobs (column), and now Omdahl. All are warning of some huge tragedy that will befall UND athletics.

Jacobs is even going so far as to state Boston College and Maine won't play UND in the future. Guess his "journalistic" standards are dead, especially if he can tar and feather the Sioux nickname with unsubstantiated claims.

More and more, I think that Jacobs and the Forums' main concern is that UND must be amenable to professors with a granola culture like in Vermont or Portland, Ore. The Fighting Sioux nickname would disgust the same potential faculty that Jacobs and Kelley want to attract. The last thing Jacobs wants is a symbol of freedom that would show openness to more conservative faculty, and repel ultra-leftist ones, which is the true "irreparable" harm that Jacobs envisions.

But here are two huge news stories that do have indirect impact on the Sioux nickname issue:

Utah Attorney General Filing Antitrust Suit against BCS

NCAA files 13 page indictment against OSU's Tressel's behavior

While the Utah lawsuit doesn't involve the NCAA, it does potentially open up the NCAA to the same type legal action. The BCS antitrust could destroy that organization (forcing the schools to go back to a pure Bowl situation like before, or forcing a playoff in the NCAA). The NCAA just can not afford similar action by the state of ND's AG, even if the chance of ND winning is remote.

The Tressel issue, as well as all that is ongoing in the SEC, basically shows that much of the upper schools in the NCAA are nothing more than a den of liars, scoundrels, and thieves. Meanwhile, the NCAA chooses to focus its attention on that conniving bunch of North Dakotans that just won't get with a plan.

[mikejm]

Just a couple of observations here:

1. the NCAA cannot "indict" anyone; that can only occur through criminal court action. The NCAA has notified Ohio State of several

[star2city]

Just a couple of observations here:

1. the NCAA cannot "indict" anyone; that can only occur through criminal court action. The NCAA has notified Ohio State of several

[mikejm]

^Yahoo is also misusing the word.

[star2city]

^Yahoo is also misusing the word.

Are your word skills really that limited? Maybe you should stick to your knitting, hockey, where you won't appear so foolish. At the very least, give up your self-appointed role as internet message board sheriff.

indictment (noun) - an expression of strong disapproval . Link

[The Sicatoka]

I indict both of you of making mountains out of mole hills.

(I was tempted to use the word "impeach", in its "to accuse" form, but figured that'd be gas on the fire.)

[star2city]

I indict both of you of making mountains out of mole hills.

(I was tempted to use the word "impeach", in its "to accuse" form, but figured that'd be gas on the fire.)

Thank you!

[MoSiouxFan]

I indict both of you of making mountains out of mole hills.

(I was tempted to use the word "impeach", in its "to accuse" form, but figured that'd be gas on the fire.)

+1

[Blackburn87]

I enjoyed the article and it hit the nail on the head. The NCAA is upset that North Dakotans and UND alumni won't get with the program like so many other schools did and just capitulate. I am so proud that North Dakota did not simply throw up its hands and accept defeat on this issue.

If all we're looking at are sanctions as previously outlined, I say see how that plays out before we all start screaming that the sky is falling. I am still hopeful that the NCAA will meet with tribal and state leadership, although it will be on their turf in INDIANapolis, if it happens. They're too scared to come to little old North Dakota, I guess. Hmmm... open door meeting policy in the sunshine instead of behind closed doors was too threatening for an organization that is anything but transparent I guess.

The NCAA would find that we're not a bunch of dumb rubes who don't "get" the bigger picture. Very intelligent people, from different political and cultural perspectives have reached a different conclusion. The Fighting Sioux moniker is not racist, degrading, or insensitive. Believe me, if that were the case, the Spirit Lake tribal members would be the first to want it gone. Instead, they wear the Sioux logo with pride. The Sioux Nation is part of North Dakota... and all of us, too. I hope North Dakotans don't back down from this issue one bit. We're right. They're wrong. It's that simple.

[HowBoutThemBison?]

I enjoyed the article and it hit the nail on the head. The NCAA is upset that North Dakotans and UND alumni won't get with the program like so many other schools did and just capitulate. I am so proud that North Dakota did not simply throw up its hands and accept defeat on this issue.

If all we're looking at are sanctions as previously outlined, I say see how that plays out before we all start screaming that the sky is falling. I am still hopeful that the NCAA will meet with tribal and state leadership, although it will be on their turf in INDIANapolis, if it happens. They're too scared to come to little old North Dakota, I guess. Hmmm... open door meeting policy in the sunshine instead of behind closed doors was too threatening for an organization that is anything but transparent I guess.

The NCAA would find that we're not a bunch of dumb rubes who don't "get" the bigger picture. Very intelligent people, from different political and cultural perspectives have reached a different conclusion. The Fighting Sioux moniker is not racist, degrading, or insensitive. Believe me, if that were the case, the Spirit Lake tribal members would be the first to want it gone. Instead, they wear the Sioux logo with pride. The Sioux Nation is part of North Dakota... and all of us, too. I hope North Dakotans don't back down from this issue one bit. We're right. They're wrong. It's that simple.

The big cases (Florida St., Utah, Central Mich) didn't capitulate. They just got the approval.

The Sioux nation is apart of some of North Dakota. Don't throw us all into one basket. I sure as hell do not have a drop of "Injin" blood in me. Just Tiger blood, me and charlie sheen.

They aren't wrong. Their club, their rules. Essentially.....anyone BUT them is wrong.

[Siouxbooster#33]

It is a shame that our local media is so dedicated to its ancient cause, that it can't take a moment to consider the absurdity of the NCAA's position. The journalistic integrity of the Forum/Herald on this particular matter is so thoroughly questionable that their own professional journalistic ethics should preclude them from making further comment. They are journalists who are so fully and totally compromised that I charge their recent spate of editorials and columns are unethical, and deserving of being told -- via e-mail and letters to the editor, that their behavior on this issue is damaging their credibility on many other subjects, and they should -- for ethical reasons - refrain from future comment.

[Siouxbooster#33]

The big cases (Florida St., Utah, Central Mich) didn't capitulate. They just got the approval.

The Sioux nation is apart of some of North Dakota. Don't throw us all into one basket. I sure as hell do not have a drop of "Injin" blood in me. Just Tiger blood, me and charlie sheen.

They aren't wrong. Their club, their rules. Essentially.....anyone BUT them is wrong.

I must disagree.

The NCAA capitulated with all of the above listed schools, INCLUDING North Dakota. The settlement agreement came at the earliest of stages in the litigation. Discovery was barely complete, if completed at all, when the NCAA jumped into the settlement. The NCAA also capitulated even earlier with the other schools. The NCAA has yet to ever take a school to trial over this matter. The NCAA has yet to even get as far as a summary judgment argument with any school over this matter. The closest the NCAA came to court action over the indian-name-issue was North Dakota, and that case settled almost instantly (instantly when looking at the legal time-line and procedural process). The NCAA has a significant track record of capitulating on this issue. Florida State, Illinois, Central Michigan, Utah, and North Dakota -- any school that challanged the NCAA on this matter actually won.

You can agrue the merits and quality of the settlement reached between ND and the NCAA. But in the end, the NCAA SETTLED. The NCAA has never attempted to take this issue to an actual trial. The NCAA has never even attempted to take this matter to a summary judgment discussion. The NCAA has never even risked taking this issue to mediation. The NCAA has done everything possible to avoid media scrutiny of this issue (up to and including cancelling simple fact-finding meetings in Bismarck, North Dakota, if the doors were open to the public). One has to wonder how dedicated the NCAA is to this cuase if they are unwilling to open their opinions to the media.

This is not pro-nick-name rose-colored glasses. These are actually facts.

Just disagree with the concept of the NCAA not giving-in on this issue. All they have done, since they enacted this absurd and arbitrary ruling, is give in.

[star2city]

The big cases (Florida St., Utah, Central Mich) didn't capitulate. They just got the approval.

Those three schools only had to gain approval from one tribe in each state. In Michigan, there are at least 17 Chippewa/Objiwe tribes, but CMU only needed one of them.

The NCAA has always demanded two tribal approvals for UND- even before the settlement - when all other schools only needed one.

UND is also the only school that needs approval from a tribe (Standing Rock) that has a large portion of its people outside the state.

IMHO, the AG and SBoHE didn't believe it could gain either Sioux tribe approval, and they didn't want the wrath of ND to fall on either, so when they negotiated a settlement, they accepted both as needing approval, thinking neither would be possible. Technically, part of the Sisseton Sioux reservation is in ND, too.

But in all other cases, only one tribal approval has been required.

[Siouxman]

I sure as hell do not have a drop of "*****" blood in me.

Your use of a slang word here is inappropriate, disrespectful of Native American culture, and is part of the problem. Obviously you have the right to free speech, but please consider others in your use of vocabulary that may be considered racist by others.

[HowBoutThemBison?]

I must disagree.

The NCAA capitulated with all of the above listed schools, INCLUDING North Dakota. The settlement agreement came at the earliest of stages in the litigation. Discovery was barely complete, if completed at all, when the NCAA jumped into the settlement. The NCAA also capitulated even earlier with the other schools. The NCAA has yet to ever take a school to trial over this matter. The NCAA has yet to even get as far as a summary judgment argument with any school over this matter. The closest the NCAA came to court action over the indian-name-issue was North Dakota, and that case settled almost instantly (instantly when looking at the legal time-line and procedural process). The NCAA has a significant track record of capitulating on this issue. Florida State, Illinois, Central Michigan, Utah, and North Dakota -- any school that challanged the NCAA on this matter actually won.

You can agrue the merits and quality of the settlement reached between ND and the NCAA. But in the end, the NCAA SETTLED. The NCAA has never attempted to take this issue to an actual trial. The NCAA has never even attempted to take this matter to a summary judgment discussion. The NCAA has never even risked taking this issue to mediation. The NCAA has done everything possible to avoid media scrutiny of this issue (up to and including cancelling simple fact-finding meetings in Bismarck, North Dakota, if the doors were open to the public). One has to wonder how dedicated the NCAA is to this cuase if they are unwilling to open their opinions to the media.

This is not pro-nick-name rose-colored glasses. These are actually facts.

Just disagree with the concept of the NCAA not giving-in on this issue. All they have done, since they enacted this absurd and arbitrary ruling, is give in.

Ok, while they may have settled(your post makes sense), they gave UND time, around 3 years if I am correct. UND signed off on it, and couldn't get it done. We can discuss the one tribe not voting over and over again for an eternity but the only important part is exactly that. UND didn't get them to agree. So by the agreement, UND has to give up their nickname. Plain and Simple. The other schools did what they had to do to get it passed for them, UND didn't. UND has also been having issues for quite some time even before the NCAA made this rule.** Just let the nickname go, I'm not saying be happy about it, im not saying celebrate it, but let it go. The Oilers became the Titans, life went on. It is at the end of the day, a nickname. If they keep the name and get sanctioned, UND's football team gets hurt by it.

** I do not agree with the rule, but it is a rule that they made for their association.

[bigskyvikes]

^^ What makes you think anyone cares what a Bison fan thinks about the things we should do on the Sioux nickname?

If you want to fold when things get difficult, than fold! Don't tell us to!

"Opportunity is unattainable for most people, because it is disguised as hard work"

[The Sicatoka]

Those three schools only had to gain approval from one tribe in each state. In Michigan, there are at least 17 Chippewa/Objiwe tribes, but CMU only needed one of them.

The NCAA has always demanded two tribal approvals for UND- even before the settlement - when all other schools only needed one.

UND is also the only school that needs approval from a tribe (Standing Rock) that has a large portion of its people outside the state.

IMHO, the AG and SBoHE didn't believe it could gain either Sioux tribe approval, and they didn't want the wrath of ND to fall on either, so when they negotiated a settlement, they accepted both as needing approval, thinking neither would be possible. Technically, part of the Sisseton Sioux reservation is in ND, too.

But in all other cases, only one tribal approval has been required.

I always heard 5 Chippewa tribes in Michigan.

I didn't hear of "both tribes" for UND until the settlement. And the State agreed to it in the settlement (for whatever reason).

When the settlement came out Stenehjem said he believed he could negotiate with the tribes because he'd done so on other difficult issues.

The better question is this:

Where was the ND SBoHE when it came to driving the AG to go and negotiate for them?

Stenehjem's just the attorney; his client (SBoHE) has to direct his actions.