Siouxbooster#33 Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 Question. Why are we putting so much effort into this bill? From the sounds of it, it's only going to lead to more lawsuits, more $$ spent, and a pi$$ed of NCAA. Why not put this effort into getting a blessing from the other tribe that we need it from? I don't have an answer. Except to say that our elected officials are finally listening to their people. They should have done this 15 years ago in the face of Terry Wanless' nonsense. They should ahev done this 10 years ago to coincide with the opening of the new Ralph. They should have done this in 1969 when the Spirit Lake elders blessed the use of the name. An important part of the way of life in North Dakota was (is) under direct, hostile, and utterly baseless assault, and somebody in Bismarck decided enough was enough. Quote
The Whistler Posted February 21, 2011 Author Posted February 21, 2011 That would be 2012. Providing we actually had a team that qualified. Quote
Siouxbooster#33 Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 I am elated at this most recent development and refuse to buy into the doomsday scenarios. I currently live in Kentucky. There are no reservations here. The Native American population is non-existent. The real tragedy is that a whole race of indigenous people are gone from here and are unlikely to ever return in significant numbers. But then, there's North Dakota. There is an uneasy history between Native and Non-Native Americans. We often view each other with a degree of distrust that lingers over 100 years from the last war, But from this, we have found some common ground. The name, the Fighting Sioux, may not have started out with such noble underpinnings, but it ended up that way. This name keeps the Lakota people as the standard bearer for UND. How many groups of people can say that? I don't see the Fighting Swedes or Norse, etc... but I do see the people who have helped shape our state to what it is today. The Sioux name creates a positive image and and I am humbled for the privilege of being affiliiated with the Fighting Sioux. The Native Americans of Spirit Lake have sued, fought, testified, voted, and begged the NCAA to let the name remain. Many of Standing Rock members are only asking that the 1969 pipe ceremony be recognized for the gift it is or that they be given the chance for a referendum. Enough already, I say, to the NCAA, SBofHE, UND admin and the other powers that be that stopped listening too soon. The people, ALL the people, have spoken time and time again. I'm glad, even if it's late, that the State Legislature is at least trying to do something about it. Fighting Sioux, forever. Well said. Has there been any other issue, in the history of our Great State, where white and native peoples have stood side by side? Has there ever been a greater tool for learning about the Native culture than this nickname issue? Quote
Predator Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 I don't have an answer. Except to say that our elected officials are finally listening to their people. They should have done this 15 years ago in the face of Terry Wanless' nonsense. They should ahev done this 10 years ago to coincide with the opening of the new Ralph. They should have done this in the 1970's when the Spirit Lake elders blessed the use of the name. An important part of the way of life in North Dakota was (is) under direct, hostile, and utterly baseless assault, and somebody in Bismarck decided enough was enough. Well my thoughts are: 1) The NCAA isn't out to get UND. 2) They dont really care if we are called Fighting Sioux or something else 3) They want to know we have approval from the 2 namesake tribes 4) LETS GIVE IT TO THEM 5) The nickname oppents can eat $hIt Quote
darell1976 Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 Heidi Heitkamp was on KFGO and she brought up the anti-trust part of the lawsuit that might be winnable for the Sioux nickname. Is it possible that UND and the NCAA could settle this out of court and maybe have the NCAA take UND off the list since we did get at least 1 tribal approval plus another who won't let their tribe vote plus a state law passed. Quote
PhillySioux Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 Providing we actually had a team that qualified. Yes. Would it be prudent to assume otherwise? Quote
beebsb010 Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 I am elated at this most recent development and refuse to buy into the doomsday scenarios. I currently live in Kentucky. There are no reservations here. The Native American population is non-existent. The real tragedy is that a whole race of indigenous people are gone from here and are unlikely to ever return in significant numbers. But then, there's North Dakota. There is an uneasy history between Native and Non-Native Americans. We often view each other with a degree of distrust that lingers over 100 years from the last war, But from this, we have found some common ground. The name, the Fighting Sioux, may not have started out with such noble underpinnings, but it ended up that way. This name keeps the Lakota people as the standard bearer for UND. How many groups of people can say that? I don't see the Fighting Swedes or Norse, etc... but I do see the people who have helped shape our state to what it is today. The Sioux name creates a positive image and and I am humbled for the privilege of being affiliiated with the Fighting Sioux. The Native Americans of Spirit Lake have sued, fought, testified, voted, and begged the NCAA to let the name remain. Many of Standing Rock members are only asking that the 1969 pipe ceremony be recognized for the gift it is or that they be given the chance for a referendum. Enough already, I say, to the NCAA, SBofHE, UND admin and the other powers that be that stopped listening too soon. The people, ALL the people, have spoken time and time again. I'm glad, even if it's late, that the State Legislature is at least trying to do something about it. Fighting Sioux, forever. EXCELLENT EXCELLENT POST!! VERY WELL SAID!! Quote
mksioux Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 I don't think we should look at the past but rather the future and hosting future football playoff games is clearly the only issue left to debate and to me keeping the name is more important than hosting future playoff games especially when future playoff football games are neither guarenteed or expected on a yearly basis. In addition, you are speculating that the NCAA will not allow us to host football playoffs aren't you? As of today the NCAA has not said we can't host at the Alerus? WIll they?...maybe, but that is not an absolute given...so my basis is even stronger... There is already precedent by the NCAA on this issue. The lawsuit was started right before UND was scheduled to play Winona State in a first-round football playoff game. UND had earned the right to host that game, but UND was forced to go to court and get a temporary restraining order to allow that game to go forward in Grand Forks. Quote
The Sicatoka Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 As much as I'm deeply concerned about the consequences of this bill on the football program, I admit I smiled when I read the results of this vote. I'm really torn on this. Man, I really wish the legislature had done this two years ago. Question. Why are we putting so much effort into this bill? From the sounds of it, it's only going to lead to more lawsuits, more $$ spent, and a pi$$ed of NCAA. Why not put this effort into getting a blessing from the other tribe that we need it from? Those two pretty much sum up where I'm at. Quote
darell1976 Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 Both of my district reps voted for the bill. I guess they are closet Sioux fans representing North Fargo. Quote
UND Fan Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 Did any of those that responded state that their opinion on what the law would mean in terms of NCAA sanctions? The following is an example of one of the responses I received from a House member this afternoon. My response is listed below it. I will let you know what his/her response may be. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Excellent news! In response to the many emails that people like you have sent, the House voted today to require that UND retain the Fighting Sioux nickname by a vote of 65-28! I would like to thank everyone for their support on this issue, but I need to remind you that the battle is only half over. We will still have a tough fight in the Senate and will need all of your support to help us get through that hurdle. Please continue to show us your support of the Fighting Sioux name and stay involved in the process. Well need you as we go into the second half of the session and push this bill through the Senate. Thank you again for your support and have a great day! ----- xxxxxx xxxxxxxx ND House of Representatives District xx - xxxxxx ___________________________________________________ Mr. xxxxxxxx - I certainly appreciate your supportive vote and your taking the time to send me this note. However, isn't there much more to this than simply having the Senate approve the bill. Do we have any form of assurance that its enactment will: 1) Appease the NCAA to the extent there will be no further sanctions against us. 2) Be credible enough that other "politically correct" universities will not blacklist us. If U of M, U of WI, etc. continue to refuse to play us, this will not be good! It will hurt us in many ways: revenue, recruiting, regional stature, etc. Are these issues being considered in your discussions? Again, thanks for your vote! Quote
FargoBison Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 What playoff games are you speaking of? Men's hockey--no they are all off campus now....men's and womens basketball -- never in a million years UND would ever host as any so called sports fan would realize...Football - possibly...all other sports...who cares. So it boils down to let the name go or we may not get a playoff football game every few years (if we are lucky)...to me that is a no brainer--keep the name! As far as scheduling goes...hockey-no effect WCHA occupies all but 8 or so non conference games and there isn't a team in the country that wouldn't want to play us, especially the way our fans travel for hockey. Football--again Big Sky occupies all games but maybe 3 nonconference games...pretty sure we can fill that with the 200 teams out there to play. Basketball, again Big Sky occupies all but maybe 10 nonconference games and with 330 D1 teams and numerous local D2 I wouldn't think that would be an issue. Other sports are the same...Big Sky Schedule occupies the far majority of the schedule leaving a few nonconference games. GFHomer your argument is just not valid. Hockey would be affected if the Big 10 Hockey conference comes to fruition, UND could be blacklisted by Minnesota and Wisconsin if things aren't resolved with the NCAA. Other schools could also take similar stances. Personally I've always thought UND should keep the name but I don't think this is the way it should be done. Quote
The Sicatoka Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 Heidi Heitkamp was on KFGO and she brought up the anti-trust part of the lawsuit that might be winnable for the Sioux nickname. Is it possible that UND and the NCAA could settle this out of court and maybe have the NCAA take UND off the list since we did get at least 1 tribal approval plus another who won't let their tribe vote plus a state law passed. Heidi? I'm not sure if that makes me happy or terrified. What I don't get is this: How can an organization made up of public entities (state universities, and some federal universities, like Air Force and West Point) and a few private entities (e.g. Notre Dame) that take federal funds, make a rule that is completely in conflict with The First Amendment? How can an organization that is majority public claim to be private? Quote
The Sicatoka Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 Both of my district reps voted for the bill. I guess they are closet Sioux fans representing North Fargo. Or ... (get your tin foil hat out) ... They are trying to take control of the universities back from the ND SBoHE, or ... They know this will damage UND in the athletics realm, and if it hurts UND it has to help NDSU, right? [/tin foil hat] Quote
UND Fan Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 The following is an example of one of the responses I received from a House member this afternoon. My response is listed below it. I will let you know what his/her response may be. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Excellent news! In response to the many emails that people like you have sent, the House voted today to require that UND retain the Fighting Sioux nickname by a vote of 65-28! I would like to thank everyone for their support on this issue, but I need to remind you that the battle is only half over. We will still have a tough fight in the Senate and will need all of your support to help us get through that hurdle. Please continue to show us your support of the Fighting Sioux name and stay involved in the process. Well need you as we go into the second half of the session and push this bill through the Senate. Thank you again for your support and have a great day! xxxxxx xxxxxxxx ND House of Representatives District xx - xxxxxx ____________________________________________ Mr. xxxxxxxx - I certainly appreciate your supportive vote and your taking the time to send me this note. However, isn't there much more to this than simply having the Senate approve the bill. Do we have any form of assurance that its enactment will: 1) Appease the NCAA to the extent there will be no further sanctions against us. 2) Be credible enough that other "politically correct" universities will not blacklist us. If U of M, U of WI, etc. continue to refuse to play us, this will not be good! It will hurt us in many ways: revenue, recruiting, regional stature, etc. Are these issues being considered in your discussions? Again, thanks for your vote! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It didn't take long to get the response - apparenlty they are not making these decisions in a vaccuum! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I appreciate your concern, and I share the some of those concerns as well. We have had discussions, not only in the committee hearings but in the debate on the floor to that affect. We want to ensure that this doesnt handcuff the University in their interactions with other Universities, and we dont want to do anything that will cause further animosity with the NCAA. In the debate, it seemed clear that the NCAA doesnt have the proper authority to impose further sanctions on UND without them having to take to task the Florida Seminoles, Utah Utes, Illinois Illini or other Universities in a similar circumstance. In terms of the other universities, it didnt seem like their blacklisting us would hold water and so the members of the assembly were willing to take that chance. Im sure that the issue will be further reviewed for those very concerns when it gets to the Senate, and I would encourage you to make those concerns known so that they come from citizens and not just from the other chamber. Thanks again for your words. Have a great day! Quote
darell1976 Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 If UND wins this and the Sioux nickname is safe...whats the odds other schools who were forced to change their nickname will try to do the same thing. Boy Miles Brand sure didn't know what he got himself into with that list. Quote
petey23 Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 Heidi? I'm not sure if that makes me happy or terrified. What I don't get is this: How can an organization made up of public entities (state universities, and some federal universities, like Air Force and West Point) and a few private entities (e.g. Notre Dame) that take federal funds, make a rule that is completely in conflict with The First Amendment? How can an organization that is majority public claim to be private? Boom! In the past the US Senate has hinted around at taking a look at the organization that is the NCAA and maybe it's time that they actually do so? Seems to most that the NCAA has severely overstepped their bounds in a few areas while looking out for the interests of the student/athlete takes a backseat to their profit margins and social engineering. Quote
cbcsioux Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 Its not a matter of being able to outbid someone. Its the fact that the NCAA will not allow us to host a home playoff game if we continue using the nickname and logo. That is why this is so damaging to the athletes. Add in the fact that we will start to see schools who won't want to schedule us because of this entire nickname-circus and its punishing the entire Athletic Department We can schedule the University of Illinois Fighting Illini, Central Michigan University Chippewa's, Florida Seminola, Utah Utes, College of William and Mary Tribe, USC Trojans, San DiegoState Aztecs, Notre Dame Fighting Irish, to name a few. We can also schedule Univeristy of South Dakota, South Dakota State, and North Dakota State as the name of the schools are Indian names. How about Univeristy of Iowa, a university with Indian origins in both it's name and nickname. Iowa Hawkeye's will not play any school with an Indian Mascots, oh yes, this policy only applies to non-conference games. We can play Portland State Vikings which is among a dozen or so schools with the name Vikings. How about University of Bradley Braves which are located in Peoria, IL, now that would be three strikes against them, city, state, and nickname. Univeristy of NC- Pembrooke Braves or the Mississippi College Choctaws or the Michigan State which is among a dozen or so schools names Spartans. There are about 5 or 6 other school using Trojans. Quote
siouxfan29 Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 If there is no effect in hockey, why then were we required to remove the logo from the rink at the Ralph when we hosted the 2006 West Regional Tournament? And would it really be fair to strip the football team of the ability to host a playoff game? Do you think the football team is inferior to the hockey team? Also, do you think the 2001 football team would have won the national championship if they couldn't have hosted 2/3 home games? For the NCAA West Regional Hockey Tournament, it is a requirement by the NCAA no matter where the event is being held that all the advertising on the board be taken off plus the logos on the ice, replaced with the NCAA. So, even if he got rid of our Fighting Sioux name and logo, the generic ND would have to go too! Quote
SIOUXPR Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 Ok, the House passed this bill today. Now it goes to the Senate. If the Senate approves, then this will 1 5 Quote
MDNSioux Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 Or ... (get your tin foil hat out) ... They are trying to take control of the universities back from the ND SBoHE, or ... They know this will damage UND in the athletics realm, and if it hurts UND it has to help NDSU, right? [/tin foil hat] I counted 13 reps that voted yes that attended UND. One, Stacy Dahl, who represents the GF District and also attended UND. Im sure they are all out to help NDSU also. Quote
SIOUXPR Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 Excuse me for my rants lol im jsut too excited but Elliot Glassheim represents my ward in the city and im sure he just lost 3 votes lol me wife and son. Im willing to bet he lost a lot more because prolly like other neighborhoods in this town, we are sioux crazy lol Here are Elliot Glassheim's remark's during the floor debate. They ring very true. Quote
ScottM Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 Heidi Heitkamp was on KFGO and she brought up the anti-trust part of the lawsuit that might be winnable for the Sioux nickname. Is it possible that UND and the NCAA could settle this out of court and maybe have the NCAA take UND off the list since we did get at least 1 tribal approval plus another who won't let their tribe vote plus a state law passed. Is she talking about the anti-trust claim that UND effectively agreed that it not raise in court again when it settled with the NC$$? That's what "dismissed with prejudice" will mean. Well that, and probably paying the NC$$'s attorney fees, court sanctions, etc. Quote
Siouxbooster#33 Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 Here are Elliot Glassheim's remark's during the floor debate. They ring very true. 2 Quote
Fetch Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 Who was it again that so eloquently brought up the idea of a Referendum & then we will know how the people in Sioux County really feel - this needs to be pushed now (?) or wait as a ace in the hole (?) - I want permission to Quote him ? ? ? *** I see that as where were going unless the NCAA & SBOHE comes to their senses Thank GOD & to the House Members who voted YES - May the Senate have the same wisdom & courage Shame on the Grand Forks Reps.& media & SBOHE & UND ADMIN. that showed their lack of real knowledge or stubborn PC attitudes This is not over & should have been allowed to go forward in as positive of a way as possible before the deadline & shame on you for not fighting to the end - You are not even close to the majority on this If so many of you would have not let us down, the past couple of years, the Legislature would not have had to step in & clip your wings Email / Write or call your Senators *** NOTE the only house member that wrote back to me (email) was Kaldor & he was still stuck on the idea that Standing Rock does not have referendums & we cannot force them to vote - WE KNOW THAT ! But a State wide Referendum would show how Standing Rock / Sioux County really feels Quote
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