Where can we get Sioux Jerseys after next year?

[BobIwabuchiFan]

Anyone have ideas on how we can continue to secure Sioux Jersey's after the NCAA driven namechange next year? I would think some enterprising businessman would have a great business going forward especially since the Unversity will jerk us around for a year or so just using North Dakota until we have a PC driven nickname.

BobIwabuchiFan

[xI Hammer Ix]

K1 still sells the old Nike style Jerseys. Maybe they'll continue to sell them. I'm not an expert on the name change and all its details, however.

[CMSioux]

I think it's okay to mention my website Siouxpride.com, we don't sell jerseys but we have hooded sweatshirts and exclusive Sioux designs. After the school's deadline, you won't find the Sioux logo anywhere unless it's sold as second-hand items.

[darell1976]

I read that retailers cannot sell Sioux products after June or July something like that but at "retail" wouldn't that mean they could sell it at a "clearance" price and continue to sell it until its gone.

[ScottM]

Glad I stocked up before the "madness" finally took over.

[darell1976]

In all seriousness... how much will I be able to ebay/craigslist my jersey for in a year or two??

A lot!

[jimdahl]

I read that retailers cannot sell Sioux products after June or July something like that but at "retail" wouldn't that mean they could sell it at a "clearance" price and continue to sell it until its gone.

My understanding of the agreement is that all licensed merchandise will be pulled from the shelves on June 30, 2011. "Retail" refers to the sales channel, I think, not the pricing scheme.

Basically, UND issued the last "Sioux Head" license renewals on July 1, 2010, with explicit instructions that they were one year licenses and that licensees would pull all merchandise bearing that imagery at the expiration of the license. Given my own interactions with UND's licensing agent in the past, I would expect them to police that pretty carefully (e.g. I would expect them to have agents walking store aisles in N.D. the first couple weeks of July making sure all merchandise is gone).

UND Merchandising Timeline -- UND University Relations

[The Whistler]

My understanding of the agreement is that all licensed merchandise will be pulled from the shelves on June 30, 2011. "Retail" refers to the sales channel, I think, not the pricing scheme.

Basically, UND issued the last "Sioux Head" license renewals on July 1, 2010, with explicit instructions that they were one year licenses and that licensees would pull all merchandise bearing that imagery at the expiration of the license. Given my own interactions with UND's licensing agent in the past, I would expect them to police that pretty carefully (e.g. I would expect them to have agents walking store aisles in N.D. the first couple weeks of July making sure all merchandise is gone).

UND Merchandising Timeline -- UND University Relations

I don't doubt their ability to prohibit the manufacture of new merchandise using the Sioux trademarked logo. I wonder how legal it would be for them to get that merchandise pulled. Of course that would depend if there's any merchandise left.

On the other hand the ONLY thing UND owns is the University of North Dakota and the trademarked logos. (I assume the bug-ugly geometric logo is trademarked.) Anyone can produce a Sioux Hockey t-shirt with a different picture on it.

You can also say ND Hockey.

The NCAA agreement says that the logo must be retired OR given to one of the Indian tribes. By all rights UND should relinquish the rights to the logo to the spirit lake tribe. I'd love to buy Jersey's made on the reservation.

[ScottM]

A quick search of Amazon revealed a lot of Sioux gear for sale, including K1 hockey jerseys.

[yababy8]

My understanding of the agreement is that all licensed merchandise will be pulled from the shelves on June 30, 2011. "Retail" refers to the sales channel, I think, not the pricing scheme.

Basically, UND issued the last "Sioux Head" license renewals on July 1, 2010, with explicit instructions that they were one year licenses and that licensees would pull all merchandise bearing that imagery at the expiration of the license. Given my own interactions with UND's licensing agent in the past, I would expect them to police that pretty carefully (e.g. I would expect them to have agents walking store aisles in N.D. the first couple weeks of July making sure all merchandise is gone).

UND Merchandising Timeline -- UND University Relations

I'm wondering, when our day of reckoning comes next June where we all become painfully aware that the idea of our Society being some sort of democracy is nothing beyond a child's brain fodder, what will SIOUXsports.com become???

[The Whistler]

I'm wondering, when our day of reckoning comes next June where we all become painfully aware that the idea of our Society being some sort of democracy is nothing beyond a child's brain fodder, what will SIOUXsports.com become???

I already feel that Jim is hostile and abusive to me for not making me a moderator.

[lomackman]

I don't doubt their ability to prohibit the manufacture of new merchandise using the Sioux trademarked logo. I wonder how legal it would be for them to get that merchandise pulled. Of course that would depend if there's any merchandise left.

On the other hand the ONLY thing UND owns is the University of North Dakota and the trademarked logos. (I assume the bug-ugly geometric logo is trademarked.) Anyone can produce a Sioux Hockey t-shirt with a different picture on it.

You can also say ND Hockey.

The NCAA agreement says that the logo must be retired OR given to one of the Indian tribes. By all rights UND should relinquish the rights to the logo to the spirit lake tribe. I'd love to buy Jersey's made on the reservation.

Yes they can stop it. It is called copyright infringement. It does not have to be exactly the same to sue, just similar.

[Cratter]

Once UND doesn't keep using the Sioux logo the Trademark expires.

When the logo becomes common use I don't know.

As a trademark must be used in order to maintain rights in relation to that mark, a trademark can be 'abandoned' or its registration can be cancelled or revoked if the mark is not continuously used.

Trademarks rights must be maintained through actual lawful use of the trademark. These rights will cease if a mark is not actively used for a period of time, normally 5 years in most jurisdictions.

In the U.S., failure to use a trademark for this period of time, aside from the corresponding impact on product quality, will result in abandonment of the mark, whereby any party may use the mark.

I doubt UND would be taking people to court for using a logo they no longer care about.

[82SiouxGuy]

Once UND doesn't keep using the Sioux logo the Trademark expires.

When the logo becomes common use I don't know.

I doubt UND would be taking people to court for using a logo they no longer care about.

They will still care about the logo. They won't want people to continue to use it because then people will continue to use the Fighting Sioux nickname and not transition to the new name (whatever that may be). Letting the logo remain in the general population will extend any difficulty in transitioning to a new name. They will control the logo as long as possible. They may even be able to find a way to extend the period in which they control the logo. Once the new name and logo is in general use and gains enough traction (gets popular enough) they will probably let the Fighting Sioux logo go.

Edit: Since I'm not a lawyer I don't know if this is possible or not. The University owns the art work that is the current logo. Owning and controlling that artwork may give them more rights to control its use than just the basic trademark laws. Or not. Another question for trademark attorneys would be whether the continued use of the logo by REA is enough to give UND control since it wouldn't be totally abandoned. The logo would be visible to people all over the country as long as UND hockey games are shown on Fox College Sports.

[lomackman]

They will still care about the logo. They won't want people to continue to use it because then people will continue to use the Fighting Sioux nickname and not transition to the new name (whatever that may be). Letting the logo remain in the general population will extend any difficulty in transitioning to a new name. They will control the logo as long as possible. They may even be able to find a way to extend the period in which they control the logo. Once the new name and logo is in general use and gains enough traction (gets popular enough) they will probably let the Fighting Sioux logo go.

Edit: Since I'm not a lawyer I don't know if this is possible or not. The University owns the art work that is the current logo. Owning and controlling that artwork may give them more rights to control its use than just the basic trademark laws. Or not. Another question for trademark attorneys would be whether the continued use of the logo by REA is enough to give UND control since it wouldn't be totally abandoned. The logo would be visible to people all over the country as long as UND hockey games are shown on Fox College Sports.

They plan on it never to be public domain.

[MoreSiouxForYou]

According to the Signs at Scheels, they will retian the right to make up anniversary gear or special run items to honor past championship teams in the future and this year they can issue permits to honor any team that wins a championship this athletic year.

[jimdahl]

I'm wondering, when our day of reckoning comes next June where we all become painfully aware that the idea of our Society being some sort of democracy is nothing beyond a child's brain fodder, what will SIOUXsports.com become???

We talked a little about this back in '07.

This website is neither bound by the agreement nor using any UND-licensed logos or imagery, so don't have to change anything at any particular time.

That said, we want to be good members of the UND community and not intentionally annoy UND (more than usual); and, trying to be a UND sports information hub loses some value if the site is no longer discoverable and recognizable as associated with UND athletics. So, we'll probably largely follow their nickname moves. You already see fightingsioux.com de-emphasizing "Sioux" on all their newer pages and switching to straight "North Dakota" branding. Rather than go down that path, perhaps we should just sell naming rights e.g. "The Jiffy Lube UND Fan Forum", until a new nickname is chosen.

[darell1976]

We talked a little about this back in '07.

This website is neither bound by the agreement nor using any UND-licensed logos or imagery, so don't have to change anything at any particular time.

That said, we want to be good members of the UND community and not intentionally annoy UND (more than usual); and, trying to be a UND sports information hub loses some value if the site is no longer discoverable and recognizable as associated with UND athletics. So, we'll probably largely follow their nickname moves. You already see fightingsioux.com de-emphasizing "Sioux" on all their newer pages and switching to straight "North Dakota" branding. Rather than go down that path, perhaps we should just sell naming rights e.g. "The Jiffy Lube UND Fan Forum", until a new nickname is chosen.

A little off topic but what about FSSN, is it going to be the UND Network?

[darell1976]

According to the Signs at Scheels, they will retian the right to make up anniversary gear or special run items to honor past championship teams in the future and this year they can issue permits to honor any team that wins a championship this athletic year.

Could UND use the SIoux logo in throwback uniform games? Since UND is retaining the rights to the nickname and logo?

[MoreSiouxForYou]

Could UND use the SIoux logo in throwback uniform games? Since UND is retaining the rights to the nickname and logo?

I don't know. I was going to take a pic of the sign and post it but camera phone is only 5 meg and it didn't turn out great with print so small.