College Basketball in decline?

[star2city]

College hoops attendance truly anemic

Watch almost any team that isn't in the Top 25 — and some that are — and you'll find empty seats, and plenty of them.

There are many reasons why fans are staying away from college basketball games by the thousands nowadays: traffic, the economy, competing entertainment, too much defense and not enough scoring. I'm convinced the biggest culprits, though, are television (saturation and scheduling) and the NBA, which have combined to make college hoops an I'll-watch-it-if-I-get-around-to-it event.

TV has long been the double-edge sword of college hoops. For a time, universities carefully controlled how many home games were televised. The thinking was that if the games weren't readily available on TV, people would attend. But soon the money got too big. Broadcast revenues exceeded the additional tickets sales if the games were blacked out.

Utah: Where are the fans?

Utah men's basketball coach Jim Boylen ... despite all his efforts, when he glances up in the stands during home games he sometimes can't help but cringe at the empty seats.

"We just do the best we can and try to put a good product out there," he said.

This season the Utes unveiled reduced season-ticket options, offering some packages for $199 and others for $99 in the lower bowl for the 16 home games.

Despite the declines, Utah ticket manager Zack Lassiter remains encouraged, noting the Utes were losing about 500 season ticket sales a year from 2001-2007 but are now down to losing about 50 a season.

Butler rated and still attendance drops

Maybe the Butler Bulldogs aren't entertaining enough. Maybe a Horizon League game has zero attraction. Maybe Colts hype has completely taken over Indianapolis. Maybe the TV contract with WNDY-23 is keeping people away.

Whatever the reason, Butler crowds are declining. Of course, Butler wasn't going to draw anything near a sellout Thursday night against Cleveland State. But attendance figures have steadily dropped: Xavier (9,114), Wisconsin-Green Bay (6,754), Wisconsin-Milwaukee (6,151) and Cleveland State (5,383).

Iowa attendance drops off cliff

From 1978 through 2006, Iowa ranked in the top 25 nationally every year in attendance. Seven times during that span Iowa averaged a sellout, the latest was in 2001. From the time it opened in midseason 1983 through 2002, Iowa averaged more than 15,000 tickets sold 13 times.

Today, Iowa ranks ninth among Big Ten schools, averaging 9,164 tickets sold per game, and is one of three schools without a sellout this year. The actual attendance figures are even more startling, however.

Iowa’s actual attendance average is 4,591, slightly more than half of the announced attendance at each game. The largest crowd was 7,659 — officially listed at 12,468. The smallest was 2,521 — listed as 8,021 — against Tennessee State.

PAC10 Decline unthinkable

In sports, and especially in college basketball, down years are a fact of life. Sooner or later, everyone takes their lumps.

But no major conference has gone through what the Pac-10 is enduring right now: there is a strong chance only one team from the Pac-10 will reach the NCAA men's tournament

[FargoBison]

I looked at the attendance stats(quickly) and from 1993 to 2009 the average tournament and regular season attendance are pretty much the same. There are some minor jumps and dips, but the 1993 averages are very close to the 2008 averages.

[star2city]

I looked at the attendance stats(quickly) and from 1993 to 2009 the average tournament and regular season attendance are pretty much the same. There are some minor jumps and dips, but the 1993 averages are very close to the 2008 averages.

No shows aren't indicated by most schools in the statistics.

It just seems like fans - and students - are demanding much more than there were 20 years ago:

more comfort, more video, more social outlet (there to be seen), better food, higher level play.

[The Sicatoka]

... too much defense and not enough scoring.

College basketball.

College hockey ...

[FargoBison]

No shows aren't indicated by most schools in the statistics.

It just seems like fans - and students - are demanding much more than there were 20 years ago:

more comfort, more video, more social outlet (there to be seen), better food, higher level play.

I'm just saying stats say not much has changed, fans do want more and some places have done a better job at catering to those needs then others. Of course winning cures everything and that is certainly the case at Iowa. They packed them in when they were good, but who wants to go watch a lousy Big 10 basketball team?

[Shawn-O]

I'm just saying stats say not much has changed, fans do want more and some places have done a better job at catering to those needs then others. Of course winning cures everything and that is certainly the case at Iowa. They packed them in when they were good, but who wants to go watch a lousy Big 10 basketball team?

Indiana, Purdue, and Illinois fans will, that's about it.

[Cratter]

I looked at the attendance stats(quickly) and from 1993 to 2009 the average tournament and regular season attendance are pretty much the same. There are some minor jumps and dips, but the 1993 averages are very close to the 2008 averages.

Yet the population of the United States increased by 17% during that time period.

Some would argue "no growth" is negative growth.

[moser53]

Is college basketball in decline? It seems so. What has happened to the lost art of shooting. The 3 point line may have been a bad thing for shooters. The 3 point line has been in effect for about 25 years and I think the shooting has gotten poorer. If I was a coach there are 2 things I would want on my team.

1-A big man who can rebound and block shots.

2-A guy who can make shots on a consistant basis.

Our favorite team unfortunatley has neither. Maybe one of the freshman can become a scorer.

[Smoggy]

Is college basketball in decline? It seems so. What has happened to the lost art of shooting. The 3 point line may have been a bad thing for shooters. The 3 point line has been in effect for about 25 years and I think the shooting has gotten poorer. If I was a coach there are 2 things I would want on my team.

1-A big man who can rebound and block shots.

2-A guy who can make shots on a consistant basis.

Our favorite team unfortunatley has neither. Maybe one of the freshman can become a scorer.

The 3 point line should certainly be removed for younger kids. They all ruin their shots because all they want to shoot is 3's and they aren't strong enough.

[siouxfan123]

I will add my $.02 to the mix, which is probably the exact value of my opinion. I think there is a combination of things that is hurting college basketball.

1. March Madness - Everyone will admit that the tournament is hugely successful but it has become such that the regular season means very little for most teams. Every year on the selection show CBS has a graphic on the at-large bids granted to schools from "mid-majors" and in the past couple of years they have only gotten a couple of the tournament slots. This means that for the mid-major schools the regular season does not matter, the only way to get into the dance is win your conference tournament. For the major schools it means play a relatively weak non-conference schedule, clean up on those games, go .500 in conference and you are in the tournament.

2. Non-conference match ups - Major schools are making sure to schedule their non-conference games to maximize their ability to get an at-large bid in the NCAA tournament. This means they are not willing to travel to good mid-majors, they play several cupcakes and are willing to only play one or two tough out of conference games. This also hurts the smaller schools because they have no chance of getting a big name at home which would create excitement for the smaller schools.

3. Many of the compelling non-conference match ups are not on campus - Watching what very little basketball I have this year it seems like all of the good non-conference games are played at the endless holiday tournaments that occur at this time of year. This prevents student/fan ownership of the teams. If you can get one or two good OOC match-up on campus I think you would have better attendance all around.

4. Random scheduling - It is hard to keep track of when your team is scheduled to pay. One of the great benefits of WCHA college hockey is that you know the games are going to be on Friday and Saturday night, with little exception.

5. TV - There is just so much basketball on TV I am already getting burned out (this is getting to be a problem with football too, IMHO). I remember back in the 90s (when ESPN 2 was fairly new) getting a pocket schedule in Sports Illustrated that listed EVERY game ESPN and ESPN 2 were showing that year, needless to say I am sure it was less then what those two networks have already broadcast.

6. College Students - College students today are different then college students of yesterday. They have many more entertainment options, they have more demands for their time, and they have a wide variety of interests. Many times sports just doesn't fit in.

7. The Product - I don't know about you, but I just don't find the product to be very good, let alone good enough to warrant the prices some schools charge.

[FargoBison]

I actually think the tournament is perfect, thankfully they only added a few teams because anything more than what they did would have killed it.

I do agree about the lack of true on campus games, lots of great matchups are played in front of a pretty boring atmospheres. If I wanted to watch good teams play in front of a quiet crowd I'd watch an NBA game.

I love the TV games, but I'm a junkie. I can't get enough. As for the product on the whole college basketball is deeper but elite talent has been hard to come by as of late. The Duke team that won last year might be weakest champ I can remember in sometime.

[GeauxSioux]

I lost interest in basketball when it ceased to be a non-contact support. The game is less about skill and more about brawn.

Remember when the scores in an NBA game were rarely below 100 and 110-115 was the norm? There were 11 NBA games yesterday. 9 teams scored over 100 points. The Lakers beat the Clippers 87-86. The Pistons scored 74 points.

That style of play has migrated to college BB. Brawn over skill. No thanks.

[WYOBISONMAN]

I think student participation in most University activities is down. Across the USA volunteer work is down as is membership in service organizations. I am not sure what the hell Americans do anymore. Life is not all about video games and laptops. Our sense of "communitiy" is in decline. I suspect the attendance at college athletic events is a symptom of this.

[UNDershirt]

I think student participation in most University activities is down. Across the USA volunteer work is down as is membership in service organizations. I am not sure what the hell Americans do anymore. Life is not all about video games and laptops. Our sense of "communitiy" is in decline. I suspect the attendance at college athletic events is a symptom of this.

oh, the irony!

[Ole in MSP]

I think student participation in most University activities is down. Across the USA volunteer work is down as is membership in service organizations. I am not sure what the hell Americans do anymore. Life is not all about video games and laptops. Our sense of "communitiy" is in decline. I suspect the attendance at college athletic events is a symptom of this.

Maybe in a backassward state like Wyoming. Here in Minnesota the volunteer network is stronger than ever. More volunteers than can be accomodated by the needed charitable events and organizations. I volunteer for 5 different organizations as a retiree and have to wait sometimes because so many want to do something for someone else. Quit generalizing based on your limited population and experiences. Minnesota is one of the most generous states in the union and one of the best places to live as a result. AND, I am being Minnesota nice to you. Based on Wyoming's history and your blessed son, Dick Cheney, I would hang my head in shame.

[WYOBISONMAN]

Maybe in a backassward state like Wyoming. Here in Minnesota the volunteer network is stronger than ever. More volunteers than can be accomodated by the needed charitable events and organizations. I volunteer for 5 different organizations as a retiree and have to wait sometimes because so many want to do something for someone else. Quit generalizing based on your limited population and experiences. Minnesota is one of the most generous states in the union and one of the best places to live as a result. AND, I am being Minnesota nice to you. Based on Wyoming's history and your blessed son, Dick Cheney, I would hang my head in shame.

We might be Bison v. Sioux on this board.........but I suspect we have a helluva lot in common. LOL!

I would say the Midwest does better with community than the West.......no argument here at all. (But, I am probably rather biased being from NoDak).

[star2city]

Maybe in a backassward state like Wyoming. Here in Minnesota the volunteer network is stronger than ever. More volunteers than can be accomodated by the needed charitable events and organizations. I volunteer for 5 different organizations as a retiree and have to wait sometimes because so many want to do something for someone else. Quit generalizing based on your limited population and experiences. Minnesota is one of the most generous states in the union and one of the best places to live as a result. AND, I am being Minnesota nice to you. Based on Wyoming's history and your blessed son, Dick Cheney, I would hang my head in shame.

Not to get political here, but I believe Wyo is rather liberal - as in he would be inclined to vote for Minnesota's esteemed comic Franken.

As far as civic-minded, when a state continually counts more votes from precincts than people who actually voted there - in election after election, many observers believe Minnesota is approaching banana-republic status. Twenty years ago, I would have agreed with your civic-minded statement about Minnesota.

[fightingsioux4life]

Getting back on topic here, I think that College Basketball is starting to get sucked into the media hype machine that generally ruins most things it touches. College Football started to lose it's shine as soon as the media started to hype every big matchup as "The Game of the Century". When the game doesn't live up to it's hype, people feel let down and start to lose their interest and excitement levels. More exposure ususally leads to more fans and more interest, but there is a level where you start getting diminishing returns and I think we have reached it and/or passed it.

As to the comments that March Madness is getting too big and it is making the regular season meaningless, I agree to a certain point. The tournament should not be expanded beyond the current 68 teams. But with over 300 teams in Division I, the playoff field is not excessively large. And what are the alternatives to the current system? A BCS-type system where the media and coaches vote on who the National Champion is? With all it's warts, College Basketball has a pretty good system for crowning a champion. But I really don't expect the BCS-ites in that other sport to ever understand that.

[Cratter]

I actually think the tournament is perfect, thankfully they only added a few teams because anything more than what they did would have killed it.

They will never subtract teams from the tournament. Just keep adding more as time goes on.

I could see a "BCS" system for basketball*. Meaning basically the big schools say: "thanks but no thanks" to the "minor schools." We can play you in the schedule but your aren't eligible for our National Championship.

*32 team name school tournament.

Division I basketball will keep getting watered down by the UND' and NDSU's. The "majors" have no division to move up to.

[DI IN FARGO]

The 3 point line should certainly be removed for younger kids. They all ruin their shots because all they want to shoot is 3's and they aren't strong enough.

This raises a different point and something I've talked to my dad about also. How many of us over 35ish crowd when we were kids on summer vacation would find things to do on our own "outside"? Hell we never sat in front of video games playing for hours on end. Kid nowadays do that constantly. Rather than going outside and riding bike, getting exercise, playing a game of baseball or basketball with our friends kids nowadays are slaves to the almighty video games. I have a nephew that is a perfect example. Kid would rather sit and play video games. I asked him what he wants to do when he grows up and he says be a video game programmer. Ugh! One last point and this came from an ex basketball coach with 20+ years of high school basketball coaching experience. Let me warn you right here if you like hockey you won't want to read this. His comments were that kids need to start playing sports at a young age. Saturday morning basketball leagues were common among grade schoolers back when I was in grade school. This coach said that many kids who would have and should have been basketball players (especially big tall kids) when they are young are trying to play hockey. By the time they get to high school and realize they are not going to be very good at it they quit and then decide they want to try Basketball or football. Problem is according to this retired coach is it's to late for them. While you can't coach or make a small kid big that same big kid who's never picked up a basketball or practiced (seriously practiced) is just another body on the court with little to no basketball skills. Maybe the US is a product of it's own success and families with little kids who can't just let their kids go out and play in the summer for safety concerns would rather spend a few hundred bucks and get a built in electronic babysitter also known as a Nintendo, WII or Playstation or a myriad of other brands and names. My parents didn't have to worry about letting me or my brothers go out during summer vacation. Can't do that anymore parents have to watch their kids like a hawk these days. Well anyway this post has gotten rather long but I do think there are way less kids these days who are interested in athletics and way to many who are zombies in front of a stupid video game!

[FargoBison]

They will never subtract teams from the tournament. Just keep adding more as time goes on.

I could see a "BCS" system for basketball*. Meaning basically the big schools say: "thanks but no thanks" to the "minor schools." We can play you in the schedule but your aren't eligible for our National Championship.

*32 team name school tournament.

Division I basketball will keep getting watered down by the UND' and NDSU's. The "majors" have no division to move up to.

With the new rules on transitioning it is going to be very difficult to add many more schools, each school needs a conference invite. The tournament is the NCAA cash generator, I don't see anything changing.