Cap and Trade

[sioux7>5]

I heard yesterday that a senator from OK said that the cap and trade bill is dead on arrival in the senate since Obama and his pals at the EPA decided to bury a report saying that Global Warming is not that critical. And that CO2 emmisions have improved and not gotten worse. IF Bush had try to bury a report he would be crucified, wher eis the outrage from the media and from all citizens.

[Snake]

I hate to say it but the first 2 sentences are close to being true. The "market" determines what prices are set at. Where his reasoning goes in the toilet is the last 2 statements. The market is now world wide and this bill will put us at a competiltive disadvantage with most countries (China and India). So what does it do? It puts additional costs on US businesses which in turn will HURT American consumers & business. Some cost can be passed on but you can only pass on so much until your cost of goods are too high conpared to your competition (world). The American consumer will suffer, American businesses will suffer, and America as a whole will suffer. For what? Phony science?

The key statement here is that THE MARKET DETERMINES PRICE. So, when a company is hit with another tax or increased cost that reduces their profit margin, the only way to continue to make that profit is to get rid of variable costs, the largest component of which is usually labor.

I guess the silver lining is that even if prices rise you won't have to worry about it if/when you have no income to buy things with, right?

[Shawn-O]

I heard yesterday that a senator from OK said that the cap and trade bill is dead on arrival in the senate since Obama and his pals at the EPA decided to bury a report saying that Global Warming is not that critical. And that CO2 emmisions have improved and not gotten worse. IF Bush had try to bury a report he would be crucified, wher eis the outrage from the media and from all citizens.

Senator DeMint also said this morning that the bill in its current form is DOA when they get back from break, but something very likely will get passed and then it goes to conference committee, where the Dems are completely running the show right now of course...so there is still cause for a lot of concern. Fox was the only outlet that I saw covering the EPA report story...there's a shocker for ya. True journalism in this country is pretty much dead, but that's a whole other topic in and of itself.

[The Sicatoka]

'Suppressed' Climate Change Report

A top Republican senator has ordered an investigation into the Environmental Protection Agency's alleged suppression of a report that questioned the science behind global warming.

The 98-page report, co-authored by EPA analyst Alan Carlin, pushed back on the prospect of regulating gases like carbon dioxide as a way to reduce global warming. Carlin's report argued that the information the EPA was using was out of date, and that even as atmospheric carbon dioxide levels have increased, global temperatures have declined.

[Goon]

Vulnerable House Democrats in GOP sights after energy vote [Politico]

The people in conservative seats are going to be put on notice.

[Goon]

The key statement here is that THE MARKET DETERMINES PRICE. So, when a company is hit with another tax or increased cost that reduces their profit margin, the only way to continue to make that profit is to get rid of variable costs, the largest component of which is usually labor.

I guess the silver lining is that even if prices rise you won't have to worry about it if/when you have no income to buy things with, right?

Hence it will kill the economy and send jobs over seas.

[Snake]

Hence it will kill the economy and send jobs over seas.

Yup!

[Bison Dan]

'Suppressed' Climate Change Report

Does this really surprise anyone? This has been reported for the last few years - that's why they changed their lingo from "global warming" to "climate change". News flash to libs - the earth's climate is in a constant state of change, always has been, always will.

[Goon]

Does this really surprise anyone? This has been reported for the last few years - that's why they changed their lingo from "global warming" to "climate change". News flash to libs - the earth's climate is in a constant state of change, always has been, always will.

No it doesn't, and it's a load of crap that they suppressed this report. Argue against the administrations Green Religion and you get slapped down.

Despite the EPA official's remarks, Carlin told FOXNews.com on Monday that his boss, National Center for Environmental Economics Director Al McGartland, appeared to be pressured into reassigning him.

Carlin said he doesn't know whether the White House intervened to suppress his report but claimed it's clear "they would not be happy about it if they knew about it," and that McGartland seemed to be feeling pressure from somewhere up the chain of command.

Carlin said McGartland told him he had to pull him off the climate change issue.

"It was reassigning you or losing my job, and I didn't want to lose my job," Carlin said, paraphrasing what he claimed were McGartland's comments to him. "My inference (was) that he was receiving some sort of higher-level pressure."

[MplsBison]

'Suppressed' Climate Change Report

Typical bait-n-switch garbage politics.

It has nothing to do with global warming.

It's always been about capping/curbing carbon emissions.

[MplsBison]

Vulnerable House Democrats in GOP sights after energy vote [Politico]

The people in conservative seats are going to be put on notice.

And here is where our current two-part system is a pathetic failure.

More money is spent on this bulls**t psuedo-war between Democrats and Republicans than it is actually helping the people of this country.

Political parties should be banned. Politicians should have to fall back on their own ideologies and not just pick up the party line.

[MplsBison]

I haven't responeded to your twised take on most things but here is the true analogy:

1) I'm a Dr. and your "true anaolgy" above is so flawed...

2) But you have your head to far up your arse to understand it..."methods"? How about "standard of care". "Not compliant"? Or do you mean malpractice?

Your analogy above doesn't hold any water whatsoever. Medicine isn't like banking...there are no "fees". Compentence to patients thru standard of care and fulfilling insurance regulations, mostly government imposed, are in a nutshell what your analogy should have been. I can bill whatever I want but contractually thru 3rd party insurance or Medicare/Medicaid, THEY tell me what they'll pay me.

Then medical was simply a bad basis for the example, NOT that the logic of the example was flawed.

[The Sicatoka]

It's always been about capping/curbing carbon emissions.

No, it's been about making money for your friends when you're in power in Washington.

Ask Al "I'm up $100 million since I was VP" Gore.

And it's also about creating a false economy: buying and selling "credits".

Must be nice to create something new "of worth" out of nothing, and also have to power to force people to buy the nothings.

When a situation confuses you and nothing seems to make sense:

Stop.

Rise above.

Look in objectively from the outside.

And ... Follow the Benjamins, for then all will become clear.

[redwing77]

No, it's been about making money for your friends when you're in power in Washington.

Ask Al "I'm up $100 million since I was VP" Gore.

And it's also about creating a false economy: buying and selling "credits".

Must be nice to create something new "of worth" out of nothing, and also have to power to force people to buy the nothings.

When a situation confuses you and nothing seems to make sense:

Stop.

Rise above.

Look in objectively from the outside.

And ... Follow the Benjamins, for then all will become clear.

Not likely.

Not many diehard Democrats/liberals nor many diehard Conservative Republicans can see or handle the big picture. They're too wrapped up in the extremism of their party's ideology.

There is no rationalization with these people. There's no reasoning to be made. They're the same kind of people who say that you are stupid, retarded, racist, anti-American, etc. when you disagree with them. Politically, these people need to be put on a large ship, put out to see, and then blown up. Of course, to have that happen in reality would be a tragedy and I do not wish that upon anyone. HOwever, politically speaking, the thought processes that lead them in that direction must be marginalized.

[Goon]

Not likely.

Not many diehard Democrats/liberals nor many diehard Conservative Republicans can see or handle the big picture. They're too wrapped up in the extremism of their party's ideology.

There is no rationalization with these people. There's no reasoning to be made. They're the same kind of people who say that you are stupid, retarded, racist, anti-American, etc. when you disagree with them. Politically, these people need to be put on a large ship, put out to see, and then blown up. Of course, to have that happen in reality would be a tragedy and I do not wish that upon anyone. HOwever, politically speaking, the thought processes that lead them in that direction must be marginalized.

That is fine and dandy but to play on peoples fear and then come up with this silly repressive tax in the hopes of fooling people into thinking that it's a solution to the protecting the enviornment is dishonest. This is about redistribution of wealth, it's a travesty. This is going to kill job and make people like Al Gore rich and the guy is one of the worst offenders. If he really cared he would fly coach, buy a way smaller house.

[DamStrait]

Typical bait-n-switch garbage politics.

It has nothing to do with global warming.

It's always been about capping/curbing carbon emissions.

Either explain why you feel carbon emissions need to be capped/curbed or refrain from further comment on this thread.

[The Sicatoka]

Politically, these people need to be put on a large ship, put out to see, and then blown up. Of course, to have that happen in reality would be a tragedy and I do not wish that upon anyone.

Of course you don't.

Imagine the environmental impact statement paperwork you'd have to do over all of that toxic waste dumped into the ocean.

[MplsBison]

Now that Franken is officially in, the democrats in the senate can't be stopped from passing this important legislation.

It's all over for big carbon emitters. Either fix your process or pay the price, consumers win either way.

[sioux7>5]

Now that Franken is officially in, the democrats in the senate can't be stopped from passing this important legislation.

It's all over for big carbon emitters. Either fix your process or pay the price, consumers win either way.

You have completely lost your mind. This so called important legislation is garbage just like the libs trying to pass it. But then again I realize logic might not work you did go to NDSU!

Franken is about the biggest idiot on the planet! I can think of only one person that is a bigger idiot, he lives in a white house in Washington, DC

[Goon]

Franken is about the biggest idiot on the planet! I can think of only one person that is a bigger idiot, he lives in a white house in Washington, DC

Franken getting elected to office is a travesty.

[Shawn-O]

Franken getting elected to office is a travesty.

What an embarassment. Votes found in trunks of cars in the Iron Range and what not. Back on topic, I don't think the Franken situation changes the fact that the House version of this bill is dead on arrival on July 6.

[Flatland]

It's all over for big carbon emitters. Either fix your process or pay the price, consumers win either way.

Yeah... That's funny. The consumers are the ones that wind up paying for this. It's not like companies can just absorb this costs without going out of business. Costs due to government are always passed to the consumers.

[MplsBison]

Yeah... That's funny. The consumers are the ones that wind up paying for this. It's not like companies can just absorb this costs without going out of business. Costs due to government are always passed to the consumers.

Companies can't just pass those costs on when their competitors aren't raising their costs.

For example, Wendy's can't just jack the price of their burgers up a $1 each if Burger King isn't raising their prices.

But to your point they can't just pay these huge fees and stay in business.

Hmm, what to do? I guess they'll be forced to upgrade their processes to be compliant! That will create new jobs and consumers will be the big winners.

[redwing77]

Yeah... That's funny. The consumers are the ones that wind up paying for this. It's not like companies can just absorb this costs without going out of business. Costs due to government are always passed to the consumers.

Don't argue with him.

He'll gladly pay the price. It is all part of the great government programming.

Hmmmm I wonder if living in Nebraska isn't as bad as I thought...

[Shawn-O]

Companies can't just pass those costs on when their competitors aren't raising their costs.

For example, Wendy's can't just jack the price of their burgers up a $1 each if Burger King isn't raising their prices.

But to your point they can't just pay these huge fees and stay in business.

Hmm, what to do? I guess they'll be forced to upgrade their processes to be compliant! That will create new jobs and consumers will be the big winners.

Say the minimum wage gets jacked up another couple bucks an hour. You're sure Wendy's can't jack up the price of those burgers? The competition is subject to the same constraints. Nobody raises their prices, none of it's passed on to the consumer? In this analogy, both Wendy's and Burger King either pass costs along or sustain economic losses and ultimately go out of business.