Chief Illiniwek Supporter Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 Since the vast majority of the posters here want the Fighting Sioux nickname to continue at UND, here's something to ponder: shouldn't someone at the actual university that bears the name take a public, active, vocal, point position to persuade people that the name should be kept? I understand fully that the SBoHE's role here, but that certainly doesn't mean someone at UND can't speak on behalf of the name. They know how to do a sell job when they are raising money, but to keep the name we are hearing crickets. Are Kelly and Faison telling the board they don't want the name? Are we advocating on behalf of a name the university doesn't even want anymore?At at a University of Illinois Spring football game, the head coach (Ron Turner) said this much: "How about the Chief? Isn't he great?" and recieved a loud ovation in return. For that, the AD informed him that in the future, all comments on the Chief would come from the AD's office. And of course, the official policy from the AD was "no comment". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Illiniwek Supporter Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 If a program isn't self-supporting fiscally it shouldn't exist at a public academic institution (college or high school). New football helmet or new math textbooks should never be an either/or question.Aiyeeee! The Title IX people just had their heads explode!! http://forum.siouxsports.com/index.php?sho...2438&st=194 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butkus33 Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 The obvious answer: football. The Summit Conference does nothing for the football program. The GWFC simply cannot attract more teams. The writing is on the wall that the GWFC is not a viable conference in the long term. UND needs to get its football conference affiliation resolved soon. Personally, I like the idea of being in the same conference as the other three Dakota schools. But all things being equal, the Big Sky would much better than the Summit solely due to the fact that it sponsors football. But the Big Sky is apparently not interested in UND, so it's a moot point. The Summit appears to be the only viable conference that is actually interested in UND. I know that the Summit is not a great conference, and that football is non-existent, however if they are going after staple schools that have legitimate football programs, the Summit looks like it could turn into the NCC. And with our geographical locations we would be able to pick up non-conference games in the Big Sky, MVAC, Big 10, Big 12. And something to this effect was said before, that either you earn your way in to a good conference or you build one. Why not build the Summit, and make it a premier conference! UND and NDSU those two football programs alone would make the Summit be recognized, that is after we get off of our 5 year probation period, but in 5 years you could turn a weak conference into a force by adding the right schools. UND, NDSU, SDSU, USD, and now talks of Omaha wanting to jump that is 5 programs right there! Build it and they will come! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackheart Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 Since the vast majority of the posters here want the Fighting Sioux nickname to continue at UND, here's something to ponder: shouldn't someone at the actual university that bears the name take a public, active, vocal, point position to persuade people that the name should be kept? I understand fully that the SBoHE's role here, but that certainly doesn't mean someone at UND can't speak on behalf of the name. They know how to do a sell job when they are raising money, but to keep the name we are hearing crickets. Are Kelly and Faison telling the board they don't want the name? Are we advocating on behalf of a name the university doesn't even want anymore? Unfortunately, the U does not seem too interested in supporting the name anymore. Of course they are probably spending a lot of their free time working on that new "marketing initiative". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 I know that the Summit is not a great conference, and that football is non-existent, however if they are going after staple schools that have legitimate football programs, the Summit looks like it could turn into the NCC. And with our geographical locations we would be able to pick up non-conference games in the Big Sky, MVAC, Big 10, Big 12. And something to this effect was said before, that either you earn your way in to a good conference or you build one. Why not build the Summit, and make it a premier conference! UND and NDSU those two football programs alone would make the Summit be recognized, that is after we get off of our 5 year probation period, but in 5 years you could turn a weak conference into a force by adding the right schools. UND, NDSU, SDSU, USD, and now talks of Omaha wanting to jump that is 5 programs right there! Build it and they will come! How long would it take for the Summit to get a FB autobid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmksioux Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 How long would it take for the Summit to get a FB autobid? I don't foresee this happening anytime soon. I would think there is a better chance of UND/USD being admitted to the Gateway Football Conference than there is of seeing a Summit League sponsored football conference. NDSU and SDSU would have little to no incentive for leaving the Gateway Football Conference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butkus33 Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 I don't foresee this happening anytime soon. I would think there is a better chance of UND/USD being admitted to the Gateway Football Conference than there is of seeing a Summit League sponsored football conference. NDSU and SDSU would have little to no incentive for leaving the Gateway Football Conference. OK so why does NDSU only play football in Missouri Valley Conference? Why be in the MVC and Summit? Doesn't make sense! Help me out here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 OK so why does NDSU only play football in Missouri Valley Conference? Why be in the MVC and Summit? Doesn't make sense! Help me out here! Because they aren't in the Missouri Valley Conference. They're in the Missouri Valley Football Conference, called the Gateway Football Conference until recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butkus33 Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 Because they aren't in the Missouri Valley Conference. They're in the Missouri Valley Football Conference, called the Gateway Football Conference until recently. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmksioux Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 Because they aren't in the Missouri Valley Conference. They're in the Missouri Valley Football Conference, called the Gateway Football Conference until recently. I would also add that if given the opportunity, NDSU and SDSU would both prefer to be in the Missouri Valley Conference for all sports. No one knows whether that will happen down the road or not. I believe this is one of several reasons UND is appealing to the Summit League. I believe they would like to see all 4 Dakota schools as the core of the conference. All four Dakota Schools have a history of consistency when it comes to conference affiliation (Old NCC)...perhaps that will transfer to the Summit League as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mksioux Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 I would also add that if given the opportunity, NDSU and SDSU would both prefer to be in the Missouri Valley Conference for all sports. No one knows whether that will happen down the road or not. I believe this is one of several reasons UND is appealing to the Summit League. I believe they would like to see all 4 Dakota schools as the core of the conference. All four Dakota Schools have a history of consistency when it comes to conference affiliation (Old NCC)...perhaps that will transfer to the Summit League as well. Right, but there's nothing stopping NDSU and SDSU from leaving the Summit if they could get into the MVC. And they would do it in a hearbeat. UND being admitted into the Summit would not diminish NDSU's aspirations to get into the MVC (in fact, it would probably bolster them). I'm not up to speed on the MVC landscape, but this could be a situation where UND is admitted to the Summit but NDSU and SDSU aren't there when UND actually joins. How attractive would the Summit look in that event? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 Right, but there's nothing stopping NDSU and SDSU from leaving the Summit if they could get into the MVC. And they would do it in a hearbeat. UND being admitted into the Summit would not diminish NDSU's aspirations to get into the MVC (in fact, it would probably bolster them). I'm not up to speed on the MVC landscape, but this could be a situation where UND is admitted to the Summit but NDSU and SDSU aren't there when UND actually joins. How attractive would the Summit look in that event? I agree. If the football arm of the Valley were invited into the MVC, that is a much more attractive option. Inclusion in that football conference is a real asset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmksioux Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 Right, but there's nothing stopping NDSU and SDSU from leaving the Summit if they could get into the MVC. And they would do it in a hearbeat. UND being admitted into the Summit would not diminish NDSU's aspirations to get into the MVC (in fact, it would probably bolster them). I'm not up to speed on the MVC landscape, but this could be a situation where UND is admitted to the Summit but NDSU and SDSU aren't there when UND actually joins. How attractive would the Summit look in that event? I believe both the XDSU's committed to a certain time length when admitted to the Summit League...granted they could always buy there way out if a better conference came calling. There are no certainties that either school will be there by the time we actually are in the conference, however, the Summit League is still more attractive than any other realistic option we have due to the fact that it is an autobid conference. If an autobid conference comes calling UND needs to be ready to accept vs. waiting for another option that may never materialize. Let's put it this way...I would rather be in the Summit League and potentially move to a "better" conference (ie MVC) vs. pass on the Summit League and hope that something better comes along for all sports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rochsioux Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 UND appears to be in panic mode to get the nickname resolved, all for the hope of getting into the great Summit league, The Summit League? Ya, let's throw 80 years of tradition down the drain so we "hopefully" can gain entrance to a bottom-feeder D1 conference. We don't get a second chance to keep the name, why are we giving up just when a few things started to fall in place to keep the name. Makes absolutely no sense to me. How bout this. We drop the nickname for all sports that are just dying to join the Summit. Hockey can keep the name forever, we will just not host any playoffs, probably wouldn't get any anyway. Football can wait and decide later. They're not eligible for post-season for four more years so there is no hurry. Any way we can do this given the surrender agreement with the NC$$ ? We can start a new trend of having multiple nicknames based on the sport. Gotta be some great marketing ideas there. I know if I had paid for REA I would not go along with the agreement. Not one logo would be removed from the arena, in fact I would probably start adding more. The only way I would go along with it is if the tribal members voted against the use of the nickname. That is a decision that I could respect. I would not give in to a pathetic group like the NC$$ or a group of professional complainers that will always find something or someone to blame for their problems when maybe they need to be looking in a mirror. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herd Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 I disagree that "Hockey drives UND". It has a huge presence, especially in the Athletic Department. It is the most well known entity in the Athletic Department. But if you talked to a variety of people around the country that know about UND I would say that there are other parts of the school, like the Aerospace School, that would get a lot of attention. Now as far as Hockey being the big dog in the Athletic Department, that doesn't mean it should damage the other programs. Conference membership in an auto-bid conference is huge for all of the other sports on campus. A move to the Summit would be great for all sports other than hockey and football. There are 17 other sports on campus, with hundreds of student-athletes, that would be able to take advantage of this opportunity. It will suck if UND has to actually give up the nickname, especially for the hockey program since they have done the most to build it up. But that sacrifice will probably have to be made for the rest of the Athletic Department and the rest of the school to prosper. Hockey drives UND in DII, but not in DI. When your basketball teams start to make runs at the NCAA tournament, when your football team makes FCS tournament, when your other teams are competing against the top level . . . this hockey is all that matters mentality will change. When all your sports are DI, people will see it differently. DI is relevant, DII is OK, but its a big difference. The UND alumni need to wake up to this fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Hockey drives UND in DII, but not in DI. When your basketball teams start to make runs at the NCAA tournament, when your football team makes FCS tournament, when your other teams are competing against the top level . . . this hockey is all that matters mentality will change. When all your sports are DI, people will see it differently. DI is relevant, DII is OK, but its a big difference. The UND alumni need to wake up to this fact. You really have no idea what makes the UND athletic department work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herd Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 You really have no idea what makes the UND athletic department work. You are talking about dollars, I'm talking about fan support, fan momentum, fan excitement. You can generate this in all your sports with success at the DI level. It doesn't have to be hockey, kinda football, and nothing else matters. Yes, I understand what makes the UND athletic department work in DII from a fan support standpoint . . . it can greatly improve. Do you understand what success at the DI level can do for your sports other than hockey, and what it can do for your national fan base? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 UND's had a long-standing national fan base because of hockey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747Guy Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 UND's had a long-standing national fan base because of hockey. There are other sports at UND? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 There are other sports at UND? I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND1983 Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 OK Hockey fans, we all know what you think of the Summit League. You think it sucks and the nickname is way more important that finding a conference for the majority of our teams. We also now know how crappy all other sports are on campus so, for the love of god, can you just give it a rest for awhile. Take a break. Go discuss jersey styles or prognosticate next years 4th line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SooToo Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 ... We don't get a second chance to keep the name, why are we giving up just when a few things started to fall in place to keep the name. ... ...I know if I had paid for REA I would not go along with the agreement. Not one logo would be removed from the arena, in fact I would probably start adding more. The only way I would go along with it is if the tribal members voted against the use of the nickname. That is a decision that I could respect. I would not give in to a pathetic group like the NC$$ or a group of professional complainers that will always find something or someone to blame for their problems when maybe they need to be looking in a mirror. And this would benefit your alma mater in what way? Or is success of the DI move -- and of UND -- not your concern. Whether you love the nickname or not, the game was over when the NCAA membership confirmed the executive council's authority to make policy about anything it likes. The lawsuit settlement included all we could get. The issue has only a tangential relationship to the Summit League. If you flout this "edict" and keep the name you can bet tougher sanctions will follow. Basketball, baseball, etc. might lose out on a conference home now, but hockey would be affected sooner or later. The affirmative vote at Spirit Lake was encouraging, but the agreement seems to require formal action by a governing body, at least at Standing Rock. Where have you seen any indication that will be forthcoming any time in the foreseeable future? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwing77 Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 OK Hockey fans, we all know what you think of the Summit League. You think it sucks and the nickname is way more important that finding a conference for the majority of our teams. We also now know how crappy all other sports are on campus so, for the love of god, can you just give it a rest for awhile. Take a break. Go discuss jersey styles or prognosticate next years 4th line. Wow. Thanks for the generalization. After you're done crying and getting all defensive, maybe you'll scroll back in this forum thread's history and realize that our defense of the nickname is more than just "because us Hockey fans love it so much." Maybe there's something to the fact that the Summit League is acting just as bush league as Brand and his idiot cronies? I chafe at the thought that some blowhard big wig uses their league as a lever to force its will on or, in this case, suck up to the NCAA front office to gain prestige or brownie points or whatever, on a school because they need to find a conference for its other sports to play in. Honesty in business is at a low. Folks, there's no guarantee that, even if we change the nickname to the UND Friendly Friends with as the logo, we'll even get into the Summit League! So why get bent all out of shape over a conference that is trying to jack with us using a carrot that may not ever be in reach? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mksioux Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 Whether you love the nickname or not, the game was over when the NCAA membership confirmed the executive council's authority to make policy about anything it likes. The lawsuit settlement included all we could get. Exactly. People love to criticize the settlement. But the NCAA membership vote a few months later confirmed that the settlement was a good decision. UND's basic argument was that the Executive Committee did not have the authority to enact the nickname policy. But after the settlement, the membership overwhelmingly supported what the Executive Committee did by expressly giving the Executive Committee such authority. Even if UND had won the lawsuit on the grounds that the Executive Committee did not have the authority at the time it enacted the policy, a new policy would have been swiftly enacted and there would have been no grounds for UND to challenge it. The lawsuit bought UND some time (which it did not use very wisely), and got some concessions relating to REA. Given the circumstances, that was about the best UND could have achieved out of a lawsuit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Illiniwek Supporter Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 ...Given the circumstances, that was about the best UND could have achieved out of a lawsuit.And with all that said, what did they (the UND Board of Trustees) do with the time? They secretly met or discussed the options among themselves, and then decided to move the deadline up (so why bother with the lawsuit and settlement negotiations? All you did was enrich lawyers) and IMHO, ask for the moon with their 30-year demand. And all we've heard is some vague notion of "this conference won't accept us". This last action showed me that there are plenty of people on that board who had no intentions of trying to retain the nickname. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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