I respectfully decline

[Blackheart]

I know there is a nickname thread but...Regionals are going to neutral sites? Ok...tell the NCAA and that a**clown Miley Cyrus Brand to stick to scheduling games...that's their job...leave the politics to the liars and cheaters...I say nuts! Stick to your guns and every year when UND is in the playoffs they will have to digitally blur the Sioux logo off the jerseys...Oh, and this message was brought to you by Pontiac...official sponsor of the NCAA, a nice mid-size sedan, and a Native American hero...frickin hypocrites...end of rant...

[Goon]

I know there is a nickname thread but...Regionals are going to neutral sites? Ok...tell the NCAA and that a**clown Miley Cyrus Brand to stick to scheduling games...that's their job...leave the politics to the liars and cheaters...I say nuts! Stick to your guns and every year when UND is in the playoffs they will have to digitally blur the Sioux logo off the jerseys...Oh, and this message was brought to you by Pontiac...official sponsor of the NCAA, a nice mid-size sedan, and a Native American hero...frickin hypocrites...end of rant...

Apparently the school/University won't do it because they want Basketball and Football to host playoffs at home.

[Blackheart]

Apparently the school/University won't do it because they want Basketball and Football to host playoffs at home.

How much opportunity is there to host FB and BB at home with the move to D1? With BB they could possibly host a conference tourney I guess but I'm not sure how FB does there playoffs for the subdivision teams...

[Goon]

How much opportunity is there to host FB and BB at home with the move to D1? With BB they could possibly host a conference tourney I guess but I'm not sure how FB does there playoffs for the subdivision teams...

I think we would have have a chance in Division one Basketball, after what 3-1/2 to 4 years maybe in football.

NDSU found out how hard it is to beat a top opponent.

[Goon]

I agree. Better to live with the consequences of being placed on the "hostile and abusive" list than to fade into oblivion.

Go ahead and sell one of us your season tickets to hockey. Someone will gladly take them off your hands.

[LB#11]

If and when the name changes, I trust that a lot of season tickets will suddenly become available. Let's hope that we never have to find out if my gut feeling about that is right or wrong.

I am a total Fighting Sioux guy, I would never give up my hockey tickets if the name is changed. I don't think there's much anyone can do about the PC some bitches...it sucks, but it is what it is. At least they can never take away the University of North Dakota name...at least for now, with this country losing their backbone lately you never know.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

If and when the name changes, I trust that a lot of season tickets will suddenly become available. Let's hope that we never have to find out if my gut feeling about that is right or wrong.

I'll say this: your scenario would not please your Athletics Department. A glut of tickets on the market isn't good at any time. You simply can't replace longtime support very easily, and you'll never replace it totally. There will be a dip in contributions, estates, and all the other methods of support: and how long and how deep is undoubtedly a concern for them.

Those season-ticket holders are taking a LOT of games that the cherry-pickers won't buy. That's the concern. Your biggest rivalry games will always sell-out: its the early season blowouts that are going to suffer at the gate. THOSE are the games that the season-ticket holders eat as a price of having a good, guaranteed seat for the big game at the end of the season.

Principle of marketing: its far easier (and cheaper) to keep an existing customer than to gain a new one.

[Goon]

I'll say this: your scenario would not please your Athletics Department. A glut of tickets on the market isn't good at any time. You simply can't replace longtime support very easily, and you'll never replace it totally. There will be a dip in contributions, estates, and all the other methods of support: and how long and how deep is undoubtedly a concern for them.

Those season-ticket holders are taking a LOT of games that the cherry-pickers won't buy. That's the concern. Your biggest rivalry games will always sell-out: its the early season blowouts that are going to suffer at the gate. THOSE are the games that the season-ticket holders eat as a price of having a good, guaranteed seat for the big game at the end of the season.

Principle of marketing: its far easier (and cheaper) to keep an existing customer than to gain a new one.

I don't know if that would actually happen because a lot of Sioux fans know the political forces behind changing the name are unstopable.

We are powerless short of taking the NCAA back to court again and getting the policy ruled unconstitutional there is NOTHING we can do about the

name changing. It would probably take a intervention from the congress or some court to stop this.

[The Sicatoka]

I support the University of North Dakota.

Consider:

- there was a UND without Aero; there is one with

- there was a UND before Tom Clifford; there is one after

- there is Athletics today; there will be tomorrow

- there was a UND with an old moniker (Flickertails, blech); there is one with a new one (Sioux)

If all you know about UND is athletics I feel sorry for you. You are missing so much.

UND is an institution that will come out of this stronger, no matter the outcome.

[Goon]

I support the University of North Dakota.

Consider:

- there was a UND without Aero; there is one with

- there was a UND before Tom Clifford; there is one after

- there is Athletics today; there will be tomorrow

- there was a UND with an old moniker (Flickertails, blech); there is one with a new one (Sioux)

If all you know about UND is athletics I feel sorry for you. You are missing so much.

UND is an institution that will come out of this stronger, no matter the outcome.

I am going to have to say that while I am not happy with the change, I am going to say that I am getting to where Sicakota is with his statement.

I will still be a fan of the Sioux no matter what. I don't think we have to worry about them being the Flickertails either...

[Goon]

If they were to change the name the Sioux would be no more. I think what you meant to say is you'll be a fan of whatever team happens to represent the University of North Dakota regardless if that team is the Sioux or a team of some other name... or did I misinterpret your statement?

As an alumnus of the University of North Dakota classes 1996 and 1999 of course I am going to support my team no matter what the names becomes (except Flickertail) I may have an aneurism if the change the name to that. I am not happy about this but I am powerless as the rest of us are to stop the wheels of changed. A few stuffed shirts are making this decision for all of us. Even if the name changes it isn't going to stop me from wearing my unis and hats until they wear out and fall apart. I might also have to buy a few jerseys before they become non existant.

[Sioux-cia]

I support the University of North Dakota.

Consider:

- there was a UND without Aero; there is one with

- there was a UND before Tom Clifford; there is one after

- there is Athletics today; there will be tomorrow

- there was a UND with an old moniker (Flickertails, blech); there is one with a new one (Sioux)

If all you know about UND is athletics I feel sorry for you. You are missing so much.

UND is an institution that will come out of this stronger, no matter the outcome.

There's only one so called 'fan' on this forum who thinks otherwise. The rest of us will always support our team/coaches/athletic programs. To do less because of a name change is ridiculous!!

[dmksioux]

There's only one so called 'fan' on this forum who thinks otherwise. The rest of us will always support our team/coaches/athletic programs. To do less because of a name change is ridiculous!!

I feel the same way and have stated that on other threads. However, after thinking about this a bit more, I can kind of see this point of view. I am an Alum of UND. If I were not an Alum, I could see not supporting the team if it were to change it's name. For example, I have always been a fan of the Tarheels basketball team. I do not have any ties to the school. I like the name tarheels and their school colors. If they got rid of the name and changed colors, I would honestly say I probably wouldn't follow them as closely as I would otherwise.

That being said, if you have ties (ie. attended/graduated) from the school, I feel you should support your alma mater no matter what their athletic teams are called.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

I don't know if that would actually happen because a lot of Sioux fans know the political forces behind changing the name are unstopable. We are powerless short of taking the NCAA back to court again and getting the policy ruled unconstitutional there is NOTHING we can do about the name changing. It would probably take a intervention from the congress or some court to stop this.

I agree, there's nothing you can do at this point to stop whatever will happen.

The administration is well aware of the feelings of the great majority of fans, and in spite of that they've chosen to go another way. But I do know that

my

support for

my

team has gone down: and I'm not alone. I really think your team will experience the same thing.

Now how many people will go to fewer games, buy fewer t-shirts, contribute less to the Athletic fund (or the overall University fund), work less for expansion of the University's programs? That I can't predict. Nor could I say how long any of those effects may last. But I'm confident that when the name is dropped, the dollar revenue to the University (or the Sports Department) will drop too. And IMHO, the revenue lost will never be made up in future years.

I really, really don't think that FSU would have fought as hard (or continued to pay off the Seminole tribe) if they thought this change was somehow benign.

[Sioux-cia]

I support the University of North Dakota.

Consider:

- there was a UND without Aero; there is one with

- there was a UND before Tom Clifford; there is one after

- there is Athletics today; there will be tomorrow

- there was a UND with an old moniker (Flickertails, blech); there is one with a new one (Sioux)

If all you know about UND is athletics I feel sorry for you. You are missing so much.

UND is an institution that will come out of this stronger, no matter the outcome.

bump

[darell1976]

I have a question i don't think was ever asked, could the NCAA propose sanctions on UND if the Sioux tell them to F off after the 3 year deadline? Could the NCAA either tell UND no more scholorships, no playoffs all together since we are in the NCAA its their association i would think they could do what they want. So telling the NCAA where they could stick their deadline could maybe cost the Sioux more than home playoff games.

[mksioux]

I have a question i don't think was ever asked, could the NCAA propose sanctions on UND if the Sioux tell them to F off after the 3 year deadline? Could the NCAA either tell UND no more scholorships, no playoffs all together since we are in the NCAA its their association i would think they could do what they want. So telling the NCAA where they could stick their deadline could maybe cost the Sioux more than home playoff games.

From an immediate standpoint, UND would go back on the NCAA's sh!tlist and be subject to the same sanctions that were under the original policy, which would basically mean UND would never host a playoff game ever again in any sport, and would have to alter their uniforms in all post-season events. However, there is nothing prohibiting the NCAA from strengthening its sanctions in the future and making them more severe. As long as UND is on the NCAA's sh!tlist, UND will be at the mercy of whatever sanctions the NCAA deems fit.

[darell1976]

From an immediate standpoint, UND would go back on the NCAA's sh!tlist and be subject to the same sanctions that were under the original policy, which would basically mean UND would never host a playoff game ever again in any sport, and would have to alter their uniforms in all post-season events. However, there is nothing prohibiting the NCAA from strengthening its sanctions in the future and making them more severe. As long as UND is on the NCAA's sh!tlist, UND will be at the mercy of whatever sanctions the NCAA deems fit.

That is why i frown on some that think its okay to defy the NCAA and just stay on their list meaning no playoff home game, because who knows if say UND does great in another sport all of a sudden the NCAA comes out and says oops sorry UND you are not eligible for playoffs including hockey! What would people do, get mad at the NCAA or mad at the U for not changing the name. For myself i say change it enough is enough, yes i love the Fighting Sioux name and will wear the Sioux jerseys if and when its changed it won't change my love for the team, just like i still love Grand Forks Central i still have a Redskins jacket and people ask me where i got it and i said i got it from the school store (i was a sophmore at GFC when the last of the Redskin stuff was being sold) so even though they are the Knights i still cheer for them. So i say you got til Nov 30, 2010 set up a nickname committe now and discuss future nicknames because i don't see the tribal council changing their minds especially with that @sshole Ron His Horse Is Thunder still in charge of his tribe.

[Sioux-cia]

....when its changed it won't change my love for the team, just like i still love Grand Forks Central i still have a Redskins jacket and people ask me where i got it and i said i got it from the school store (i was a sophmore at GFC when the last of the Redskin stuff was being sold) so even though they are the Knights i still cheer for them.

My older son graduated a Redskin and my younger son graduated a Knight. I still love them both. Sometimes one more than the other. All depends on the day...

[darell1976]

My older son graduated a Redskin and my younger son graduated a Knight. I still love them both. Sometimes one more than the other. All depends on the day...

I was the nickname in the middle, Redskins was changed the summer of 1991 when i was to start my sophomore year at Central that fall. I was a freshman at Valley(formerly the Warriors) until that spring when this nickname crap started so i never "officially" became the Redskins and the Knights were the offical name in the fall of 1994 I graduated the spring of 94 so never a Knight I was GFC from 91-92 then from 92-94 a Maroon and Grey. Yea i think our mascot could have been 2 crayons.

[siouxforeverbaby]

From an immediate standpoint, UND would go back on the NCAA's sh!tlist and be subject to the same sanctions that were under the original policy, which would basically mean UND would never host a playoff game ever again in any sport, and would have to alter their uniforms in all post-season events. However, there is nothing prohibiting the NCAA from strengthening its sanctions in the future and making them more severe. As long as UND is on the NCAA's sh!tlist, UND will be at the mercy of whatever sanctions the NCAA deems fit.

the settlement states that in three years, if the tribes won't give us a yes answer....we change the name which would mean we wouldn't be on the list after that.

[Stromer]

From an immediate standpoint, UND would go back on the NCAA's sh!tlist and be subject to the same sanctions that were under the original policy, which would basically mean UND would never host a playoff game ever again in any sport, and would have to alter their uniforms in all post-season events. However, there is nothing prohibiting the NCAA from strengthening its sanctions in the future and making them more severe. As long as UND is on the NCAA's sh!tlist, UND will be at the mercy of whatever sanctions the NCAA deems fit.

I am not so sure about this. The reason the NCAA resricted the logo only in the postseason is because it was proven that they did not have the authority to force a university to change it. Therefore, they decided to restrict schools from postseason play because that is directly under the NCAA's control where as the regular season is not directly controlled by the NCAA (think different restrictions on alcohol and advertisements during the playoffs compared to the reg season). Thats why schools playing FBS football wouldn't even be affected as the bowl system is not part of the NCAA playoff system. However, other sports at those schools would still be affected. So I am having a hard time thinking that the NCAA can somehow take away scholarships or do other things of that nature. I just don't think they have the legal right to do things like that but I am no expert.

[petey23]

I am not so sure about this. The reason the NCAA resricted the logo only in the postseason is because it was proven that they did not have the authority to force a university to change it. Therefore, they decided to restrict schools from postseason play because that is directly under the NCAA's control where as the regular season is not directly controlled by the NCAA (think different restrictions on alcohol and advertisements during the playoffs compared to the reg season). Thats why schools playing FBS football wouldn't even be affected as the bowl system is not part of the NCAA playoff system. However, other sports at those schools would still be affected. So I am having a hard time thinking that the NCAA can somehow take away scholarships or do other things of that nature. I just don't think they have the legal right to do things like that but I am no expert.

True. Plus the NCAA already knows that they are walking a fine line as it is. Unfortunately Congress didn't bring them up on hearings as there was some talk of it, but any more of this crap from them and they probably will. I am pretty sure the NCAA doesn't want their books and policies being opened up for all to see during congressional hearings.

[mksioux]

I am not so sure about this. The reason the NCAA resricted the logo only in the postseason is because it was proven that they did not have the authority to force a university to change it. Therefore, they decided to restrict schools from postseason play because that is directly under the NCAA's control where as the regular season is not directly controlled by the NCAA (think different restrictions on alcohol and advertisements during the playoffs compared to the reg season). Thats why schools playing FBS football wouldn't even be affected as the bowl system is not part of the NCAA playoff system. However, other sports at those schools would still be affected. So I am having a hard time thinking that the NCAA can somehow take away scholarships or do other things of that nature. I just don't think they have the legal right to do things like that but I am no expert.

What if the Executive Committee decides that upon further reflection, not only can offending institutions no longer host NCAA playoff games, they can't participate in NCAA playoff games? Who is going to stop them?

[redwing77]

I don't think there would be an appreciable drop in ticket sales. In fact, it may even benefit the atmosphere at the Ralph. Like DaveK and dmksioux state, the only people giving up season tickets would be the fair weather fans who don't have much ownership in UND outside of getting season tickets.

That number would be really small as the monetary cost of the tickets would, I'd assume, indicate commitment to the Sioux even if they don't necessarily care what's going on in the game.

mksioux is right on, the exec commitee has outstretched its boundaries. However, there are no schools that are willing to launch a fight against them because they don't want to be the subject of an investigation or some spiteful reprisal as Brand and his cronies are apt to begin.

Isn't it interesting that we're so spiteful of the leader of Iran and all of these dictators in the world and yet we don't even care about the ones we find in our own country?