zonadub

thank you. respectful disagreement can be constructive.

There is no 'good' process to pick a new nickname to replace one that was a beloved as the Sioux name was. What would you suggest? Another committee? This one was trying to do the best job they could for the University of North Dakota. Yes, the results are not full of names that have people saying "how can we be expected to pick one name from a list of such awesome names". I don't know if you have ever given time to a government committee, but they are not the place to go for inspired innovation. A student vote? Like Cal State Santa Cruz? Banana Slugs? We were all witness to the excellent suggestions of the 'marketing consultant'. What a great inspiration his input to the process was! Maybe you would rather a committee of one pick the name? Well, that would fall on the President, and I am pretty confident that you, and most everyone else, would not want Kelly to make that selection on his own. Maybe you would want that committee of one to be petey23. Sure, that would work. Then you would be happy. On the other hand, I doubt even you could come up with a nickname that would have universal appeal, however. This is why the consultant came up with a 'safe' <school color> <name a bird> recommendation. At least UNDErmines came up with something imaginative. Uninspiring, but imaginative. There is no way to pick a perfect name. Can you imagine the University of Minnesota going through something like this and picking a name like ... Gophers?! How about the University of Oklahoma coming up with a name like Sooners? Yet those schools would probably fight over having their names taken stolen from them now, too. There has been 10 years of this fiasco and more than 3 years of moratorium since North Dakota (the University and the state) succumbed to the NCAA. And that is not enough time? Seriously? Yes, I may be more accepting of this process than some because I felt that Roughriders was a good choice from the get-go, but there have also been several names that have been removed from consideration that I felt would have been better than any of the ones still under consideration, including Roughriders. For example, I really liked ericpnelson's suggestion of Wolves, especially after the video clip he posted of the pack of wolves taking down the bison. Don't really like seeing the inclusion of any weather phenomenon as a choice, but this is the 21st Century, and that's the world we now live in. North Stars is OK, but don't think a North Dakota flagship university should name itself after a neighboring state. And would rather have seen Owls or even Pheasants as the bird instead of Hawks (on the other side of it, Lowell Schweigert championed the Hawks theme and his loyalty and devotion to UND are without question), but the committee (and Pres Kelly) are in a no-win situation. How do you come up with a replacement for the Sioux name that will be accepted? I think the people on the committee did what they felt was best for the university and provided a list of five names they felt were appropriate. They eliminated 'North Dakota', but left the totally lame and unimaginative shortened version Nodaks, which makes me shudder. I would rather see Sundogs over Nodaks, but at least they should be given credit for accepting a volunteer position which could not possibly have a widely acclaimed and universally supported outcome. You have said that you 'can live with' Roughriders (my paraphrase). While not happy about most of the choices, the one I, personally, would not like to see chosen is not having a nickname at all. If it is such a good idea, why wouldn't a well-known and respected school like Stanford (which could stand on its own without a nickname if any school could) have already gone that direction? If no nickname is included in a popularity poll, I hope it is defeated because it, for lack of better wording, just doesn't feel right. Waiting another 3, 5 or 10 years to do it all over again in the hope that this time they 'get it right' doesn't make sense, because I don't think that the next time will produce a significantly different or better result. It's UND's Kobayashi Maru. My hope is that you will accept that my position on this has nothing to do with fear-mongering and everything to do with accepting that the committee was put into an impossible situation and tried to do the best job they could for the University of North Dakota, it's students, alumni and fans. They should be thanked for their service and their efforts, not vilified because the list of names doesn't please everybody (we could, after all, be bestowed with a name like Banana Slugs). No list could, now or in another 3, 5 or 10 years. Sorry, I was only going to a write a couple short paragraphs, but one thought led to the next and turned into a rant.

then the argument that UND cannot be the Roughriders because Red River has that name also has no relevance.

with tongue deeply planted in cheek... so so if UND were to go back to fighting Sioux, does that mean that no more playoff games can be held in North Dakota? Can UND mess with NDSU that way and keep football playoff games out of the Fargodome as well as the Alerus? Cool! Let's do it!

Stanford changed their nickname long before the NCAA got involved.

Add Skyhawks and Wolves to Petey's list. kinda disappointed Pony Express never gathered any momentum.

Unfortunately, in the politically correct world of the NCAA, the majority would not sway their opinion. The basis of political correctness is that the majority is wrong at the expense of the few, the minority. So, in the infinite wisdom of the NCAA, the majority is often wrong and the minority must make the rules.

I am just thinking in print here... for or all those people who support staying North Dakota and facing the NCAA sanctions, whatever they may be, why not just come out and say stay Fighting Sioux? The sanctions would be the same whether the nickname is Fighting Sioux in fact or no nickname in endorsement, but Fighting Sioux de facto. So why not just be honest and support returning to the Fighting Sioux name? we all realize that no nickname will be as strong or unique as the Fighting Sioux name, but there has to be resolution to this. For those of you who say the choices are bad, my guess is that your proposed names would not be universally accepted either, IF YOU HAD AN ACTUAL NAME TO PROPOSE, not just have the position of being against any name.

UC Santa Cruz Banana Slugs North Dakota style.

If I recall correctly, the NCAA did not require UND drop the Fighting Sioux name. They said UND could continue as the Sioux if that is their desire. The sanctions for using the Sioux name were the penalty for continuing to use the name. It sounds an awful lot like they have just said the same thing about going forward without a nickname (that will be a de facto endorsement of continuing to use the Sioux name). As far as the NCAA is concerned, they just pulled a Pontius Pilate and washed their hands of it and placed the final verdict in the hands of UND's opponent - whether on the ice, field or floor or the hands of the victim crowd. Any of these subgroups can yell "crucify them" and the NCAA, like Pilate, will happily comply.

Actually, the football jerseys have only said "North Dakota" for a long time. Don't think that is going to change. ? p.s. Took almost 4 years to get to my 1000th post.

Besides the limited number of people who frequent this forum keeping the size of the sample lower, the control of only being allowed to cast your vote(s) one time will keep the size smaller. This site does its best to limit ballot box stuffing, where the Herald/Forum poll and the nickname submission link allowed a single person to submit as many votes/suggestions as they were willing to spend their time doing. One person could hypothetically cast 100 votes easily in an hour. (See 'Ermines' for an example) My feeling (and I have absolutely no data to back this up) is that the no nickname/North Dakota group will not rally behind any nickname. I agree that there is no nickname is good enough to replace the Sioux name, especially when it is taken away by force. The committee was in an impossible predicament. There is no way they could have come up with a list of 5 names that people would have said "Wow, those 5 names are so good that I can't decide which one I like best." Oxbow's question in another thread is really unfair in that respect because the committee did the best they could under the circumstances. So, back to the why can't UND stay without a nickname in perpetuity, like the 'football' teams in the UK? Yes, it is unique. But why is it unique? And do you really think that being unique in this particular way is in the best interest of the student athletes and the University of North Dakota? I can't give you any better reasons than those posted above, but for me, I would prefer that the North Dakota something's take the field/ice/floor over the North Dakta Nothings (not saying that 'Nothings' would become the de facto nickname, but who knows what outside sportswriters might start doing as derisive humor in absence of a true nickname).

The same here in Arizona. Followed by a chuckle.

So, if this is going to be put to a vote, how about having the vote be between no nickname and Fighting Sioux and have the vote take place only on the 3 Sioux reservations and only among the enrolled members who live in North Dakota... No Sioux members from South Dakota. Then take that to the NCAA.

The only problem I see with that scenario is that the choices would be "North Dakota" vs. Sundogs.

Wow. First point... Schweigert voted against removing North Dakota from the list. Get over yourself and read more closely. Second point... What is your basis for claiming Bahl was not voting according to what he has been hearing from the people around him? Just as your circle of influence may prefer North Dakota, his may prefer that an actual nickname should be chosen.

Add to your redundancy list North Dakota Nodaks, leaving only Roughriders and Fighting Hawks. Roughriders was my first choice since the realization the Sioux was gone, but there are a couple of Hawks that have taken up residence on our golf course. They are very impressive raptors. Miami RedHawks would be the only other Hawk in either of UND's conferences, so not opposed to it. Really hope it won't be Sundogs, North Stars or Nodaks, but UND is still my alma mater and I will cheer for the UND ___________, no matter what the final choice is.

My apologies. Big thumb on iPad mini gave -1. Meant +1.

<putting on my 'Darrell' troll-baiting mask> but the Bizun lost more games in 2014 under Klieman than they did in Bohl's last year (2013). So Schweigert improved by 2 games while Klieman slipped by a game. <taking off the troll-baiting mask>

Can't believe that 5 pages later, nobody has mentioned that this is Klieman's second year also...

Even if you disregard the two negative scores and use only the positive score for North Dakota, it score less than any other name on the list. On the other hand, maybe the only way to prove that remaining North Dakota is not the answer to the 'North Dakota only' crowd is to have a 2 candidate vote between no nickname and each of the rest of the finalists. It should beat out Sundogs, but highly unlikely that it would beat Roughriders head to head, imho.

Don't think it will ever happen, however remember the old axiom: "if you're not moving forward, you're going backward."

Sorry, guys... Lincoln was shot 5 days after Lee surrendered. He really didn't have a lot to do with how the South was treated after the war.

It would be a huge upset if UND won , but that's why they play the game.