iramurphy

Why is anyone even giving the tribal Government the time of day? They already made their point, we took it to court. The NCAA would have lost this round and won the next. Therefore we have a settlement. We can whine about it but it is what it is. Drop the name and if the tribes want to associate with UND they can make a proposal and UND can consider it. You don't pay someone to honor them. The tribes simply say they don't wish to be honored. That is not the message UND received from their elders many years ago and it is the tribes who have chosen to dishonor their elders not UND. diversity is only important to them when it is to their disadvantage. They make no attempt to understand our culture and what UND was trying to do. In fact if you read some of their rhetoric they will also tell us why UND adopted the name in the first place. For those activists who worked hard to change the name congratulations. For those who lobbied with misinformation and scare tactics, fabricated stories of the racial incidents, or exagerated stories of real incidents, good luck with finding some other issue to stir your juices. It is over, lets get on with the things that are more improtant and a lot more pleasant than dealing with the likes of His Horse is Thunder (especially if you put prunes in his hay) and support UND and Sioux athletics. We can cheer for the Sioux as long as we wish. We still have the right of free speech. Leave the NA students alone and don't harass them. They are UND students first and formost and deserve a chance at a good education and a great college experience same as the rest of us. No one can keep us from waering Fighting Sioux attire. no one will care that much about the issue when UND wins another FB, BB, swimming, hockey, or other sports championships. We look weak to those elsewhere and especially on the Rez when we come begging or buying. Time to move on.

I believe Walrus is correct about Molde and he would also be a viable candidate. I don't think the experience as an Asst. AD or even an AD are as important as the leadership skills of the person chosen. The issue about the budget isn't whether or not they can do the budget, the issue is that they are responsible to develop a budget, strategic planning, facility planning and make sure the Athletic Department opperates within the confines of the budget while at the same time "taking care of their people". All of these issues need to keep in mind the mission statement of UND and also make sure it fits within the Universities strategic plan. Blais, Molde, Purpur and Bollinger are all viable candidates. The references to the "good old boys club" ring familiar with those parents who think their kids lack of success is because the other kids gets the part in the play or is the starting Goalie or QB because of who their parents are. I don't care if they are in the good ol' boys club, the Elks Club or Rotary as long as they are the best person for the job.

Roger wasn't dead set against the D1 move he wanted it on a different time table. He wanted the facilities brought up to D1 standards first then make the move. I sat in on a couple of meetings and that was his position. Purpur, Bollinger and Blais would all be good candidates. I don't know if any of them are interested though. Blais just took a coaching job in Fargo, Bollinger is doing well at Bemidji and likes the area and Purpur is doing well at Stanford from what I understand. There will likely be more good candidates. This will be an exciting and challenging time for the person who takes the job.

I think too many people are equating the tribal governments with the native American people. I haven't found that I have a lot of respect nor am I impressed with tribal government that I am familar with, nor for that matter a number of those in leadership postions within the tribes. As far as the Native American people, they are like people anywhere else. Those that struggle with poverty and the socio-economic problems inherrent on the rez tend to fall into the welfare trap of dependence on others and the associated ills of drug and alcohol abuse and crime. That is not consistent with the American Indian Culture but you will find similarities in all races dependent on others. They tend to be raised by disfunctional families with leaders who lack the skills, experience and leadership qualities to lead their people to a better life. It is easier to blame whatever their problems are on someone else. You will find that those who take the opportunities to better themselves, take pride in their accomplishments and want their own families to grow up to be responsible citizens and have the opportunity to succeed. There are a lot of examples and many of those who succeed are the least patient with those who remain engulfed in the chains and problems associated with those unfortunate souls who don't believe life can be better. As I have stated before, it is time for UND to move on but still be willing to consider any request by our states American Indians who wish to re-establish a connection with the people of the State of North Dakota through the use of the Fighting Sioux name at UND. If no tribes come foreword, we should be smart enough to get the message. It is not worth negotiating. I would not be willing to negotiate our honor and dignity to those who have been so insulting and closed minded to what our culture thought was quite an honor to offer them. Their elders and ancestors understood and approved. You don't pay someone to let you honor them.

The original Parent Trap Movie at the summer camp. I think one of the 4 person cabins was named Arapaho. Great flick. Leave the name the University of North Dakota. No new nickname for now. We can still cheer for the Sioux, it is our right of freedom of speech. UND should not contact any of the tribal leaders. If the tribes wish to have any sort of special relationship with UND they may have the appropriate officials contact UND. If we keep trying to get them to change, we simply continue to empower guys like His Horse is Thunder (but he isn't). Let those folks do what they do and ignore them. UND will continue to be successful and the traditions will continue. The nickname and logos are not nor have they ever been who we are anymore than the UND Fighting Sioux have had any thing to do with the identity of being Native American. Those Native American leaders have chosen to dishonor their elders and ancestors who agreed to the issue in the first place and it is now their problem not ours. We will look weak and foolish if UND tries in any way to enter talks with these folks. If as many Native Americans as the polls indicated want the name to stay, let them deal with their own tribal governments and then come back to UND and ask if UND is interested.

There would be no reason to stop supporting UND athletics. The kids and coaches had nothing to do with this. There is no reason to rag on the attorney General or the other attorneys involved. I believe most legal minds felt we would win this lawsuit and the NCAA would be able to make sure they properly follow all of their own procedures and guidelines then return to court and make it stick. some times you need to be smart enough to cut your losses. The only thing I object to is that there is no reason to place any restrictions on the Ralph. Heck, its a piece of history and we should save it for generations yet to come. Choosing the name was done for the right reason and will be discontinued for the wrong reason. The logo and traditions of UND Fighting Sioux Athletics are something to be proud of and this decison doesn't change that. The Fighting Sioux have never been the name. The Fighting Sioux are not the Native American tribes. Other than recognizing their place in the history of the state of ND the Sioux American Indians have nothing to do with UND athletics. The Fighting Sioux are the University of North Dakota student body, alumni and supporters who have made Fighting Sioux Athletics what it is. The name and logo don't change that. If it does, then the activists and the NCAA will be able to claim a big victory. I would initiate plans to change the name or simply drop the name effective next school year. If one or more of the tribes wish the privilage and recognition that goes along with being associated with UND athletics then let them request the privilage and UND can decide if they are honorable enough to continue the name.. If they don't, I wouldn't approach them. They have chosen to no longer associate their history with UND and I would simply say too bad for you and ignore them. No protests, no harrassments, no special programs but make sure they are treated with the same fairness and respect as any other of our students or our states citizens. Some day they may regret the decision but who cares? It is their choice now. Their leaders seem to want to polarize their people and kids and so I would say good luck and you are welcome to go to school here, all you need is and ACT of 23(or whatever it is) and a GPA of 2.5 (or whatever it is). You will not be placed on committees or given places of honor that you don't earn with your own deeds, same as anyone else. They are not to be mistreated harrassed or in anyway treated differently. Many of them will say agreed and many of them will say wait a minute, that isn't what we want. My answer is that of today your leaders have decided you no longer wish to hold a place of honor and respect at UND based on your history. It was a great run, but good luck. We will get on with the next chapter of a storied and proud heritage at UND without you. I am a big supporter of the name and the great logo but I wouldn't be willing to prostitute the University and especially Fighting Sioux atheltics to a group of people who are not interested in continuing this relationship. It is a bit like the guy whose wife has been visiting all of the other guys in the neighborhood while he works the night shift and still thinks he can make it work. Go Sioux!

I wonder if he will wear his Feather Jacket?

UND has a good group of young kids and two very good recruiting years in a row. If Lennon stays and the $$$ support is there it could happen. We need to solve the AD issue and the new president needs to be proactive and recognize the value of using the athletic programs as a tool for the University. UND should be competitive from day one and even a top 20 team or better. #1 would be pretty tough and odds are against it. The AC beat the odds. I also think it will be tougher for both teams to stay on top because of the better competition.

You could argue whether or not this is the best AC team ever. Some of the guys from those teams in the 1980's might take exception. I might agree with them. This is a very good team however. A win over any big 10 team is big and this was a big win no matter how much the Gophers are down. (We still talk about the near win over the Gophers in 1974 and they weren't that good then either and it wasn't one of our best UND teams). The cupboard was left pretty bare by Mason, but a number of these kids did play last year when they had more wins and went to a bowl game so I don't think you can say none of those guys should be playing in the big 10. Weber will get better, Barber beongs, Hightower belongs just to name three. Some of their young kids will be OK. I would have liked to see us play the Gophers this year and if we could have won we would be thinking it was a pretty big deal too, because it would be. Best to let the AC and their fans enjoy this one. Anything else looks like sour grapes.

Not sure what you meant by the question. It may mean I have a role at a high school where kids are recruited by both guys and I think they both do a good job. Our HS coaches (who are very good and highly respected) speak highly of both of these guys. (My kids ACT score was over 30 so he was overqualified to go to the AC and he wasn't good enough in FB to play at either school). I did have the pleasure of telling Bohl he didn't belong on the sideline of our HS team during the game when he was recruiting and he was polite enough to leave without incident. Some of you guys remind me of the 5 yr olds who keep having to compare their manhood and think if they stretch the hell out of their monkey that makes them better than someone else. They are both good coaches and recruiters and to say otherwise would lead me to believe that person has no clue as to what they are talking aobut . The records of both coaches speak louder than my or your observations.

I would wonder how you came to this conslusion. Lennon is undefeated against Bohl. Doesn't mean anything other than he won the only game they coached against each other. He can flat out coach. So can Bohl. If you are still confused ask coaches who have no alligiance to the two schools. They will tell you both of these guys are excellent coaches and recruiters. I have personally witnessed both men recruiting and Lennon is every bit as good as Bohl as a recruiter. He is outstanding. His recruiting classes this year and last year are outstanding despite the planned D1 move. Maybe your personal experience is different. Feel free to explain. Too many people get confused by how the teams do in a particular game. These guys records speak for themselves and there is no reason to try claim one guy is better than another. They are both outstanding coaches. It is as simple as that.

Bohl has earned, and might have a shot at, the Nebraska job. He would leave in a minute if given the opportunity. He is not in Fargo for the long haul and has earned, and will receive, a chance to coach elsewhere. It isn't a question of if he will leave, but when. This year will be his best opportunity baring an upset loss to someone on the schedule and that is not be likely. The AC win over the Gophers is big no matter how bad the Gophers are this year. They should have won last year. If UND were healthy, I think they would also do well. This may be the last chance to beat them because Brewster is already having a lot of success with his recruiting and the Mn. HS coaches want to see him do well. One of the downsides to the win is Mn and other Big 10 schools may start looking closer at talent in NDak and that would hurt both schools. UND will do well in D1AA because just like the AC because they are committed to the transition. The disadvantage is the AC will be playoff eligible and this season's success will go a long way and they wil market it very well. . UND still has the academic advantage and Lennon and his staff do a great job. Bohl will leave soon if not this year. That is to their disadvantage.

I think the players are given the opportunity to make the plays and if they don't make them, you can't blame the coach. We are young, smaller on the D-line, hurt and lack depth this year. We can't afford to miss tackles and we need guys to step up and make plays but when they do that they sometimes will get burned. UND should have won the game. We missed three open receivers for TD passes and didn't make the fourth and short. We left too many points on the field. The defense played OK considering how many people we had hurt. we gave up a TD when the DB jumped the route and we gave up two big runs. They certainly didn't dominate us despite their big and experienced O-line and mobile athletic QB.

Contrary to what some believe, Martinson had no decision making authority and made no decisions about things within the athletic department. He served in an advisory capacity and his role was to assist with the D1 transistion which would require him to communicate with many people in the Athletic Dept. including coaches as well as Alumni office staff and administrative personel. A lot of what he did was garner financial support and committments to make the D1 move based on what those at UND told him it would require and to try and coordinate communication between the involved parties. If you have followed the D1 move in your own school, you should realize the D1 move is not just about athletics but involves academics, research, marketing, and support from students and faculty etc. I would hope that is all a part of what Martinson advised the president on. I am not sure why people assumed he had any decision making authority.

I am going to assume that you didn't read what was written. He wasn't working for any one in the athletic department. He obviously communicated with a lot of coaches, employees, athletes and alumni. His role was well outlined, and he did a lot to position UND to make the move to D1 with the necessary resources. There is no reason to belabor the point. I attended meetings with both of those guys present. The relationship was a cooperative one in the beginning and frankly there is no reason to air a lot of dirty laundry. I am not privy to all of the interactions within the athletic department. The issue was handled and you may certainly criticize how that was done but don't criticize the wrong people for the wrong reasons when you don't know what you are talking about. I may be wrong, but I doubt you will be brought up to speed on any of the details of this issue and can't figure out why you would really care. Better get stoked up for the Gopher AC game instead. I have a bet on the AC.

I'll take that bet and bet my house and pension. You have no idea what has gone on nor how things have been handled. Martinson wasn't "put in" Bunings Dept. He was working for and advising Kupchella. Don't get all of your info from the media or the blogs.

These people resigned long before the AD was let go. It helps if we are going to criticize someone we get the facts straight first. Before we make any assumptions based on preconceived notions consider a couple of things. Dan Martinson went to UND just like many of us. With his degree from UND, he worked in the insurance business. He was a person who had the vision and leadership to eventually create a very successful insurance company. He eventually sold this to SAFECO (if my informantion is correct) and during the course of his successful career in the insurance business and "retirement" he has given very generously of both his time and financial resources to UND. That has come without strings attached. He felt strongly UND was the "flagship" university of the state of North Dakota and we needed to continue to excel both academically and athletically so we wouldn't lose our competitive advantage in the upper midwest. He has served on a committee studying and discussing the move to D1 for the last 10yrs or so and met with President Kupchellla on a number of occasions to lobby on behalf of the move. When Dr. Kupchella asked him to help with the transition, he stepped up with more of his resources, but most importantly his time. He moved to Grand Forks and has lived in Grand Forks for about a year and does this as a volunteer. Rather than some of the cheap shots tossed at him occasionaly on this thread he deserves our thanks. He has a home on the west coast and a ranch out west (where I believe he also does some voluteer work and provides resources to help needy kids). If anyone thinks this issue was a "good old boy" issue or that there were no problems in the Athletic Dept. you a grossly misinformed. You can't have the number of people in the department (who are highly thought of) resign at the same time. Most of the coaches were unhappy and many supportive alumni were unhappy and we should be smart enough to know that there were serious problems. Lastly, when those who were your biggest supporters and most responsible for you getting the job in the first place decide you need to go( OKeefe and Harmeson), then I don't think anyone would be under the mistaken impression Dan Martinson got Buning fired. When people who have exceled all of their lives in careers like Maritinson did, that rely so much on working with people and communicating, see there is a problem, we should be thankful he asked those with the authority to look into the situation. That is what he should have done and that is what he seems to have done.

That clears up my questions I had about the Gopher-AC FB game (which was the thread topic at one time).

It was a good catch. He bobbled it but then gained control, both feet were in, butt was in, poor call. It also looked like Grover's TD was a good catch in the other end zone.

PCM has a good points but if you think it is just Wisconsin and Minnesota you are wrong. They won't look foolish to any fan base but some of ours and after a few years of lost revenue and opportunites, I wonder who would look foolish. According to some of the coaches it is an issue right now. Games against these schools are the ones that can bring in the 6 figure guarantees and are part of the budgeting for the move to D1. It won't be smart to "win the battle and lose the war" and miss opportunites to recruit kids or generate income because we can't get over the Fighting Sioux issue. It will be difficult enough to make the move to D1 without having problems we can avoid. Our opponents are on the field of play, basket ball and volleyball courts or ice arenas not in a court of law, nor at a tribal council meeting. I am not saying we should not see the lawsuit through. We should win the thing and try and come away with a reasonable settlement that allows UND to solve the issue on our own time in order to minimize the cost. If we can be awarded any damages so much the better. There is no sense in making our point, however valid, and then having higher travel costs to play further away or missing opportunites to have a better schedule because of this issue. It isn't a win or lose proposition it is a lose-lose deal. What do we accomplish if we keep the name and play Crookston or U of Mary instead of the Gophers or Wisconsin in FB, BB, VB or soccer? We will probably paly them anyway in some sports. An attorney who is very close to the situation Feels UND has a good chance of winning this suit because the NCAA didn't follow its own rules, but feels the NCAA will be able to make sanctions and restrictions stick once they follow their own guidelines . The pink locker room is irrelevant to us. I have been in it and it is unique. It isn't offensive and I wear pink sometimes and thus far don't seem to be a homosexual but I roomed with one once. He would have gotten a kick out of the pink locker room.

I agree. The Fighting Sioux and their history shoud always be part of the UND athletic teams. The cost is becoming too much.

UND is going to change the name. With the move to D1 we are having some big problems with scheduling and that includes U of Mn., and U of Wisconcisn. Both of them are in our prime recruiting areas and those kids who will come to UND to play, that might be D1 recruited walk-ons, are more likely to come to a place where periodically they will be able to go up against the so-called big dogs. They want to play rather than sit on the bench at a big school, but they also want the satisfaction of knowing what it is like to play at the highest level. The name isn't worth hurting recruiting or scheduling over. There are a number of people intersted in the Presidents position at UND who want the issue solved before they come on board. They think they will have better things to do than deal with the activists or NCAA. The NCAA has admitted off the record they screwed up with the name issue but mainly with not following their own procedures and how it was handled. They can lose the lawsuit, come back and if they follow their own guidelines, they can make it stick next time. The name isn't worth losing good candidates for president or hurting relationships with coorporations and governments who may have grant dollars. Lastly, if the Native American leaders, whomever they may be, keep focusing on the name and blaming their problems on the name issue, instead of leading their people, then indirectly it will hurt their kids and it is no longer worth the hassle. The leadership on many of the reservations is so inadequate that if getting rid of the name helps only a handful of kids then lets change and get on with life. The only way I would even consider keeping the name would be if the tribes (without prompting) came back to UND and requested the name be kept. ( I am pretty sure that won't happen). I would also require they put their money where their mouths have been and start cooperative programs for their youth to make sure the kids are healthy and safe and properly educated. I have worked with schools and programs for those kids and the kids themselves will tell you the biggest problems they have are their own parents and tribal leaders. They want to allowed to be kids. They could care less what the excuses are but they don't want to have the violence, drug use and umemployment used as excuses for dysfunctional families. They could care less about most of the cultural things until they get older. That is the sma ewith almost all kids. They just want to fit in and be kids and enjoy the same things other kids do. Unless the Fighting Sioux name can help those kids it is time to change. I have always thought it could and should be used to help reservation kids, be you can't fight the ignorance and racial bias we often face in dealing with the leadership at the reservations in order to accomplish what could have been done. It was done with respect and honor by UND, with the approval of the vast majority of Native Americans in the state and the logo is outstanding but it is going to have to change and it isn't worth fighting over anymore. I also believe the wheels of change are already rolling and the change will come within the next year or two.

What NDSU did at the D2 level and performing at the top of D2 for a number of years positioned them better for success at the D1AA level. Their reputation and traditions did indeed help with the success they have now. What makes the difference isn't that the schools competed successfully at D2 but how they went about achieving that success that makes the difference. UND will do well at the D1AA level because they are already positioned for success by how they are doing things in most programs right now. THe tradition and success of UND and the reputation of the University will be a big reason for UND's success. It isn't so much they were one of the top powers in D2 but how they became that power. The Fargo-Moorhead community got on board and have supported the move with $$$ and an upgrade in facilities. Add that to the schools athletic history and tradition and we could have predicted success. UND Alumni have gotten on board with additional $$$ and facilities have been upgraded and UND will also be successful for the same reasons.

None of this issue has anything to do with NDSU past or present. We need to take care of our own problems. It won't hurt FB recruiting nor athletics but it looks bad and the way it has played out leaves UND open to legitimate criticsim. Leave NDSU out of it. It reminds me of the parent whose kid gets in trouble and rather than dealing with their own problem child they are asking "what about the other kids?".

You must not have seen either the Gophers play nor the Sioux play. I do think UND could beat the Gophers but it would be close. I think the AC will beat the Gophers by at least three TD's and have made that bet. There are a lot of die hard Gopher fans who wouldn't bet against either NDSU or UND against the Gophers. They have been that bad this year. UND isn't as good defensively up front as NDSU this year and I think the Gophers would be able to run on us but will have trouble running against NDSU. They will have to pass to beat NDSU and I am not sure they have been consistent enough to do so. I don't think the Gophers would be able to stop us either running or passing. Why would that be a stretch? We have played them before when they were down and almost beat them and we weren't as good offensively in comparison as we are now. That was a long time ago but it was D2 against D1 before the D1AA stuff. Last year NDSU should have won and the Gophers are worse this year.