iramurphy

Obviously, Honest ABE met you Fetch. How the hell old are you???

What you don't seem to understand is that Hakstol stood by his convictions. His contract was not a factor in his statement. He is not in favor of losing the name and logo and he isn't being forced to make a statement. He is smart enough to see the harm these sanctions will cause UND hockey and therfore he stated that. He has spoken out in order to defend his program. Dale Lennon has confirmed the issue has UND FB in recruiting. Anyone who thinks hockey recruiting is not hurt by this are fools. Hakstol is also aware of that fact. There is no one in there right mind who understands intercollegiate athletics that doesn't understand sanctions by the NCAA will hurt UND hockey and UND athletics. Not being in the Big Sky or similar conference will destroy UND athletics. Calling people sheep or insinuating Hakstol was coerced is foolish. I read the letter from the SL folks and I thought it was well written. They are being told that UND officials are making up the real threat to the Big Sky membership and they are told that the NCAA will cave in if the State of N.DAk. would force the name on UND. What they are being told is not true. Just like the NCAA believed the crap they were told by the Jeanottes and Longies about the name being hostile and abusive, these folks are believing the crap they are told by the Frank Burgraffs and name supporters. Simply put the NCAA gave UND the same chance that FSU, Utah and Central Michigan took advantage of and that was support by one named trib in 2005. Don't come now and blame UND or UND officials because the tribes didnt' want to help back then There is ample evidence that if UND brings the name back the same cast of Characters will be picketing and lobbying against the name. UND needs to move on. All of the things UND stands for is unchanged and UND can still provide the same programming and advantages for our State's Native American students.

Wrong. They may schedule whomever they wish and all they need to do is state that FSU, Utah or whomever are not under sanctions by the NCAA.

No, they may choose to schedule whomever they wish. It isn't a legal issue.

That would be great. He believes that I am sure, but all of that could happen without forcing the name issue on UND. Too many factors out of UND's control to risk the future of UND hockey and UND athletics on the opinion of a few people. The NCAA wouldn't relent when legislation was passed by the legislature. Get Standing Rock to relent, then we can start figuring our if we can then get the NCAA to move back on this issue. In the meantime, our teams and athletes have new conferences to join and games to win. The name will have to be a lower priority until we know for sure we will be held harmless.

Burgraff's statement is another example of the misinformation some in his group have been spreading when they took the petitions around. First of all, if you look at the the list of contributors to UND athletics published in the UND hockey program, it does not contain Frank's name for some reason. His comments about Dave Hakstol is why I would never go to war with a guy like Frank. You can't count on him to have your back. Frank takes a shot at Hakstol for stating the obvious. Frank would not be privy to negotiations between UND and Hakstol. A government employer could face complaints were they to make an employee make public statements concerning polictical issues such as this. He didn't have to say anything and his future at UND is not in jeopardy. What might gain credibility for Frank would be if he had countered Dave's opinion with facts and he didn't do that. Hakstol has the best interest of UND and UND hockey in mind. It is obvious Frank Burgraff is uninformed and does not have the best interest of either UND nor UND hockey as his top priority. He uses a combination of the emotions and affection people have for the name, with the disdain we have for the NCAA, with rumors and partial facts and supposition, to confuse some and convince others that his measures will somehow defeat the NCAA, the SBoHE and allow UND to retain the name without penalty or harm and that is just not accurate. Taking a shot at David Hakstol for speaking the truth tells me a lot about the character of one of our former (very mediocore) hockey players. He won't let facts or truth confuse him as he plows blindly forward. What an embarassment.

Appreciate Dave's support and insight. He sums things up pretty clearly, the threat to UND and UND athletics has become too serious and the name and logo and what we like about it, does not out weigh the risk to UND and UND athletics including hockey.

I agree let the Bison have the first game, then alternate. Might be good to play in Bismarck but I don't think their Stadium at Bismarck State (or whatever they are called) is big enough. They should play WBB or MBB in Bismarck but that is for a different thread. I wouldn't take it our of state. You would also take the revenues for Businesses in Fargo or Grand Forks that they won't want to give up.

You are correct. As long as UND was D2 they did not get their share of Frozen Four revenues. We lost about $400,000 per year. the expense money UND received fro the NCAA didn't usually cover our costs. The D2 issue vs D1 issue is irrelevant because we would still have the same sanctions regardless of which Division we are in. They are both NCAA. Would there still be an NCC? With SDSU, USD and the AC all gone maybe, probably not but we woudl give up the home playoff games which is a big deal for FB whether you are D1 or D2. D2 became so watered down and was losing scholarships. With 14,000 students and the history of UND athletics and academic excellence, we outgrew D2. Dolphinswin: UND is a hockey school but not hockey only. Get the WBB or MBB or FB into the tournament and you will learn that UND will support any successful program and especially hockey, BB, or FB. Force the logo and name issue on UND and you will learn we are not a "hockey school" we are a University with a great hockey program with a great tradition. The great tradition of UND hockey does not need nor has it ever needed the name for its success and tradition. How many National titles have we won since the team moved into the Ralph??? How many did UND win when they played in the old quonset? How many did they win playing in the old Ralph that didn't have the name and logos everywhere? I want a successful hockey program a lot more than a name or logo that without NCAA approval hurts my hockey team. We will end up a bunch or rubes with a great logo and name and beautiful arena and no where to go.

Coach you are correct you didn't say that, but others have. I also believe your comments about Ralph and what he said are correct.

The NCAA has said repeatedly they can to live with it. They can afford to because they lose nothing. We can't afford to, because we lose too much, maybe everything. Why would anyone in their right mind want to subject our hockey teams (forget the other teams for now) to those sanctions? Don't forget the NCAA, as part of their policy, also encourages member institutions not to schedule teams on their sanction list. Over 400 member schools voted to support their policy. The list is growing. Anyone who thinks that the scheduling part of this sanction by itself won't hurt UND hockey is living in a bubble that does not allow logical discussion or thinking. You can't have ever coached or recruited at the college level. There are kids out there who do factor in who is on our schedule. Dont' forget how pissed we get when we lose a kid to Juniors in Canada. Don't kid yourself, every college hockey coach in the country with an IQ above 50 will use this as a tool against us. They can tell kids anything they wish about how this will hurt our scheduling. If you are going to continue to support the name despite NCAA sanctions then you are going to be part of a group of people who set UND hockey back 50 years and the Ralph in all its glory will not be enough to neutralize the damage. The only way to fight the NCAA is by backing the litigation by the Spirit Lake tribe. I don't know if they will be able to force the NCAA to review and change their discriminatory policy against Native American names and logos, but changing the State consitution or trying to force UND to keep the name in face of these sanctions and penalities is not in the best interest of our hockey team and especially not our University or athletic dept. The high regard we hold our hockey team is not shared by everyone else in the country nor even in the hockey world. There are those who despise us because of our success and there are those who feel because we are from N. Dak. we are irrelevant. We all want to fight the injustice of the NCAA but sitting with an athletic dept. and hockey team in shambles with sword in hand standing on our principles is the wrong approach. We need to somehow live to fight another day. If we go down this path led by people who don't have a stake in this fight or have an axe to grind with either the SBoHE or UND we are going to get burned and once that happens it will be too late. This name issue and issues with the SBoHE or legislature need to be separated from UND athletics so UND can move on with what is more important to UND and that is the viability of our hockey team and athletic dept. Those of you who don't care about atheltics, it will affect the viability or our University if we end up losing the standing and prestige our athletic teams now have. I have heard too many times that once we stand up to the NCAA or once we get a tribe to support us or once we get the legislature to pass a law etc,. the NCAA will back down and the conferences around the country wil want to take us in. That isn't happening and in fact no one other than Spirit Lake has stepped up to the plate. I appreciate that, but had they done so in 2005, we would have met the criteria the other schools did to keep the name. It is too late for that now.

That's why we are screwed.

Over 400,000 hits on this. The kid is a senior at Detroit Lakes and a member of the White Earth reservation. He was a hell of a FB player but some idiot convinced him to quit FB and focus on hockey. I dont' know who he scored against but it was an away game. There were some nasty comments about his hair which is part of his culture. He also competes in Native American dancing competition. Good kid, good student. Pretty good hockey player on a below average team. Goal reminds me of Evan Trupp's move in the Final Five and his recent goal in his minor league game.

A couple of things that need to be clarified. First of all, Ralph did not get Baker fired. The SBoHE made the decision and it wasn't related to the name and logo nor to Ralph's gift. Ralph's gift never required UND to keep the name and logo. After he was told it was ok and then later Kuppy balked, he got pissed and threatened to walk away from the unfinished arena. The SBoHE had their meeting scheduled before Ralph sent his famous letter and they already planned to direct UND to keep the name and logo. That may have had something to do with pressure from UND supporters and Alumni and a reported threat from Dean Blais to quit if UND dumped the name. Wanless wasn't fired by the SBoHE. However he ended his employment, it was UND's doing, not the SBoHE. I do not know if Ralph had anything to do with Wanless leaving UND. I am not stating Ralph didn't make statements others said he made, I am saying the decisions by the SBoHE weren't due to pressure from Ralph. Anyone who serves on a public board like this would know it is poor form to bend to threats from wealthy benfactors. To state the SBoHE made a decision about a UND president based on dislike by a benefactor I do not believe is accurate.

I agree with you but short of the litigation by the Spirit Lake Tribe they don't seem to care what we think.

The NCAA adopted the policy in 2005 which affected 19 institutions using Native American imagery. These schools were given until 2/1/2006 to obtain consent from a "namesake tribe". Two schools, Illinois and San Diego State were given exemptions because the Illinois tribe and Aztecs had become extinct. (I agree the policy is already a bit hypocritical). Florida State, Utah, Central Michigan all complied with the NCAA directive and thus face no sanctions. Pembroke apparently has permission or was given an exemption, i read the comments on our blogs but I didn't look that one up. The other schools are now in compliance. There was not a requirement initially to obtain permission from two tribes. UND and the State of N. Dak. sued in 2006 and would have won that initial lawsuit because the NCAA didnt' follow there own policy. They have since changed their bylaws so this policy will now stand up in court. In order to get an additional 3 years to obtain permission UND had to get the permission of two tribes. That was the trade off to get the extra time. The agreement is binding between the NCAA, UND and the SBoHE. We have not been able to get consent from Standing Rock and they are not receptive to either the SBoHE or UND attempts to sway that vote. The council claims they have voted against approval or voted against considering to vote on the issue 7 or 8 times and question the lack of respect shown them as a sovereign nation. In addition they have had two council elections in the last 4 years and the people of Standing Rock have twice elected councils with a majority of members who oppose giving consent. SBoHE Haugne stated that 6 of 8 districts at Standing Rock have voted to support the councils position. The petition passed attempts a referendum to force UND to keep the name and this will be declared unconstitutional by the N. Dak Supreme Court. The danger is the referendum that threatens to change the constitution. That could be a disaster for UND and UND athletics. UND must belong to a conference and until we hear from the Big Sky that we are in, we must take the warnings from Fullerton seriously. In addition the NCAA member schools voted 400 something to 6 to support the 2006 policy banning the name. The NCAA leadership has made it clear to UND and State of N.DAk. officials that they are not going to change their stance. They point out they have an agreement between the NCAA, the State of N. Dak. and the SBoHE negotiated by the AG of N.Dak. Anyone naive enough to think the NCAA is going to fold save successful litigation from the Spirit Lake Tribe? The rhetoric about the Fighting Irish, Vikings etc. I believe should be valid. You either prohibit use of ethnic groups or you don't and you certainly shouldn't be able to single out one group. Unfortunately the US Supreme Court has previously ruled the NCAA can make up their own rules about membership simialr to your country club which can kick you out if you play golf without a shirt, throw your clubs, use vulgar language or other club rules that are unique to the club. Thus far they have sided with the NCAA when it comes to the issue of whether or not they are a monopoly. In essence they can take their ball and go home or let us play in their yard only by their rules. We can take it or leave it.

"Coming where Mollberg came from"?? He came from Detroit Lakes. The head coach has been Minnesota Coach of the Year and part of 4 State Championship Teams. They run both veer looks and a spread look. One of the better High School programs in the upper midwest. In the "down years" they are still winning 7-9 games per year. Not all against weaker competition. Kids have excellent HS weight training program and college coaches and the kids themselves feel they are well prepared for college. Having said that, you are correct, he will be better off sitting a year and learning under Hanson (as well as the other QB's) and I believe he is very excited to do that.

One might argue that UND didn't do enough but it is a fact that UND and SBoHE officials were stonewalled by His Horse is Thunder and other Tribal Officials when the SBoHE was still trying to keep the name. I can't tell you if they attempted to speak with individuals or just the Triabl Chair but there were efforts made. Easy to say now all it would have taken was UND to find these people "sitting on the fence" and convince them They had every opportunity to call for a meeting of the Tribal Council with UND and every opportunity to speak out publically in favor of gathering more information. I would guess there is more that people at UND and other name supporters could have done but to say if only UND sould have ......... doesn't cut it. There are a lot of things supporters at SR and SL could have done to move the process ahead on their end too. Bottome line, we are where we are. The SR people can still step up to the plate and be counted. It is their reservation and their tribal council. Should they be inclined I still believe if they join with SL they could make a difference with the NCAA. The legislature and UND don't seem to be able to and this new attempt at legislation doesn't hold any promise with respects to moving the NCAA off of their position..

Wanless cleaned up a financial mess. There are a lot of people who think he did a very good job. He certainly is more articulate than Faison. UND athletics had good success under Terry. The hockey team had a couple of tough years around the time Gino left. There is another story that he could have remained hockey coach but the mess in the athletic dept. needed to be cleaned up and people were starting to grumble about hockey. I would be cautious about assuming Wanless was run out of town or that Ralph got everyone fired. Ralph disliked Kuppy and he couldn't get him fired. I am not saying Wanless was or wasn't fired, and I'm not saying Ralph was or wasn't able to move Baker or Wanless out but we are turning rumor and coincidence into facts. Not sure I have seen or heard solid evidence but I certainly see the coincidence. I don't believe Gino was a Wanless fan but it is a good reminder, no matter how popular you are as a coach, even in hockey, you answer to the AD and the president. If Ralph was that powerful how was it he couldn't save Gino???

That is as long as UND is in the Big Sky or a conference. He said we would have a lot of trouble without a conference.

Well, thanks for setting us all straight. I knew we could count on an AC fan to set us straight. It wasn't a mistake to quit playing you in FB at the time. Had we played NDSU when we were D2 it would have been held against us and the one year we likely wouldnt' have made the playoffs at all. That has been rpeviously documented and discussed. It was a mistake to quit playing the AC in the other sports. Tim is in the Alumni Office and I am not sure he is informed of all of the ramifications of the D2 FB playoffs.

I am a die hard UND hockey fan but also a die hard FB, VB, MBB, WBB, Swimming, Baseball, Track and University fan. This is as important for hockey's future as it is for FB, BB etc. Some don't see it because they refuse to believe what those in the know are telling them. Frank Burgraff is maybe a hockey only guy. He doesn't remember or probably doesn't care about all of the Sioux FB, BB, Baseball, Track coaches who went to bat for Gino when Miller was not going to give hime a shot at the hockey job. Those guys are not UND hockey nor is anyone person. UND hockey is about all of those guys, coaches, cheerleaders, fans who supported the team over the years to enable them to be in a position to win 7 championships. I will remember Frank's stance and how it is hurting UND but I don't want anything bad to happen to hockey. I didn't like Haks email to support the flawed legislation but I want him t continue as our coach and I hope he wins 3 or 4 championships before he is done. I hope people closer to him than we are will remind him how UND athletics is a family who have benfited from the successes of each other over the years and we may need his help lobbying hockey fans to defeat this measure. I would guess he speaks to other college coaches who see no problems with the NCAA sanctions. UND administrators speak to college presidents and AD's and seem to be learning otherwise. This is a University matter and it is as important to the future of hockey as it is to the other sports. We simply can't afford to be sanctioned by the NCAA.

That is Minnesota High School League policy not the NCAA.

Best post you have ever posted. It reminds me though of a term people in the miitary referred to those who remained behind when the bullets started to fly yet were wanting to tell the combat soldier how things should be done. They never had anything to lose and didn't have a dog in the fight, so to speak. The were referred to as REMF's. Rear Echelon............. you can figure out the rest. There were and are many support soldiers who do their job in those rear areas with courage and strength but they don't dictate to the combat soldier what they think they should do. They make sure they have the resources to complete the mission successfully. In this case UND needs the Big Sky. We would love to keep the name but we don't need it. We need to make sure UND has all of the resources to be succesful. The membership in the Big Sky is a higher priority than the name.

Faison has said it publically and privately Kelly isn't opposed to the name as long as we don't have sanctions. He was wearing logo gear less than a year ago. These two guys are not the enemy nor are they the problem. You might try going in a meeting these guys. (leave your pink lady friend in the pick-up). Until you hear them say I doubt you will believe anyone else. The enemy is the NCAA and the problem is the entry to the Big Sky. If we had to live with the sanctions until the SL litigation works its way through the system it would be a bitter pill to swallow but we would be OK. I'm afraid it would hurt the hockey teams more than the other sports because of scheduling and the advantage of last line change when you are playing away. . Home field advantage in BB and FB are more psychological because of the fan support and that can be overcome. Baseball also benefits from batting last but I don't know how they choose there playoff sites. We cannot exist without a conference. We aren't Notre Dame and they have had to bite the bullet in most sports except for FB which for now still stands alone. We can't do that.