[dakotadan]

PCM, on Oct 14 2005, 06:29 PM, said:

From the Babson Free Press (Babson College, Mass.):

NCAA Against Native American College Mascots

Quote

However, the financial resources used for court battles or changing logos or not playing games could have been used far more efficiently to improve the actual lives of Native Americans. NCAA could impose a reasonable tax on the use of Native American titles and images, an action far less disruptive to universities, and far more beneficial to Native American communities and tribes.

Ah, yes, an NCAA tax on American Indian nicknames. Why am I not surprised that such an idea would come out of Massachusetts?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And we all know that the NC$$ could provide a higher quality Native American program than UND ever could. Why didn't UND ever think of trying to provide education to NAs to "improve the actual lives of Native Americans."

What bugs me most about this debate is what little research people do before having an opinion on the issue and the naive things people say about UND and it's treatment towards Native Americans.

[Goon]

I really like this article and I would like GK to comment on it. Also, I had this Liberal Arts teacher quite a few times during my Under Graduate and Graduate days, the man is definately a hand wringing do gooder that is highly misguided. it just backs up what I have been saying all along, even when others have tried to tell me its not about politics, the fact remains that it is about politics.

http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/n...on/12915065.htm

Quote

Hail the anointed ones for their words of wisdom

Thank goodness for the liberal arts professors at UND! If it weren't for them, people in Grand Forks never would know they are closet racists.

This post has been edited by Goon: 16 October 2005 - 11:26 AM

[Sioux-cia]

Goon, on Oct 16 2005, 11:24 AM, said:

I really like this article and I would like GK to comment on it. Also, I had this Liberal Arts teacher quite a few times during my Under Graduate and Graduate days, the man is definately a hand wringing do gooder that is highly misguided. it just backs up what I have been saying all along, even when others have tried to tell me its not about politics, the fact remains that it is about politics.

http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/n...on/12915065.htm

Quote

Hail the anointed ones for their words of wisdom

Thank goodness for the liberal arts professors at UND! If it weren't for them, people in Grand Forks never would know they are closet racists.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

GK will tell you that this http://www.spiritlakecasino.com/ is a more honorable image of the Sioux people than this http://www.siouxillustrated.com/

[dagies]

Goon, on Oct 16 2005, 11:24 AM, said:

I really like this article and I would like GK to comment on it. Also, I had this Liberal Arts teacher quite a few times during my Under Graduate and Graduate days, the man is definately a hand wringing do gooder that is highly misguided. it just backs up what I have been saying all along, even when others have tried to tell me its not about politics, the fact remains that it is about politics.

http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/n...on/12915065.htm

Hail the anointed ones for their words of wisdom

Thank goodness for the liberal arts professors at UND! If it weren't for them, people in Grand Forks never would know they are closet racists.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Quote

Until I read that letter, I had not seen evidence of "hostile and abusive" bigotry, hate, and racism at my beloved UND. I now must admit that it does exist.

But you must look closely, my friends. For it is much closer to the classroom than it is to any sports arena.

Beautiful shot!

[PCM]

From The Minnesota Daily:

North Dakota’s nickname offends many
The NCAA’s efforts to address the issue are commendable and necessary for change

Quote

It was this football game at UND that changed my perspective and made me really think about the whole mascot issue. I witnessed several of my white peers painted up exorbitantly with fake feathers adorning their bodies, chanting around and doing the tomahawk chop. I was filled with so much anger and hurt I couldn’t hide it for Nape’ and Cetan — my two nephews. They asked what was wrong. I grabbed their hands, turned around and left. It is inevitable that with a team name like the “Fighting Sioux,” opponents and spectators will “unknowingly” say or do something that may hurt an actual Dakota/Lakota person who is watching. Why should one group of people have to differentiate between the literal term and fun in the name of sports?

From The New Britain (Conn.) Herald:

The NCAA’s nickname debate

Quote

If you thought the NCAA’s dictum against the use of "Native American" nicknames and mascots was, shall we say, a bit over the top, just wait until you hear what a self-proclaimed "coalition" of 90 university faculty members and "human rights advocates" are proposing as a way of ridding the world of this "dreaded scourge."

[mountainman]

PCM, on Oct 17 2005, 08:49 AM, said:

From The Minnesota Daily:

North Dakota’s nickname offends many
The NCAA’s efforts to address the issue are commendable and necessary for change

Quote

It was this football game at UND that changed my perspective and made me really think about the whole mascot issue. I witnessed several of my white peers painted up exorbitantly with fake feathers adorning their bodies, chanting around and doing the tomahawk chop. I was filled with so much anger and hurt I couldn’t hide it for Nape’ and Cetan — my two nephews. They asked what was wrong. I grabbed their hands, turned around and left. It is inevitable that with a team name like the “Fighting Sioux,” opponents and spectators will “unknowingly” say or do something that may hurt an actual Dakota/Lakota person who is watching. Why should one group of people have to differentiate between the literal term and fun in the name of sports?

From The New Britain (Conn.) Herald:

I go to games all the time and have never witnessed anyone doing the "tomahawk chop". I think this is a bunch of overexaggerated BS!!

The NCAA’s nickname debate

Quote

If you thought the NCAA’s dictum against the use of "Native American" nicknames and mascots was, shall we say, a bit over the top, just wait until you hear what a self-proclaimed "coalition" of 90 university faculty members and "human rights advocates" are proposing as a way of ridding the world of this "dreaded scourge."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Great, can't wait to hear this.

[Goon]

Quote

It was this football game at UND that changed my perspective and made me really think about the whole mascot issue. I witnessed several of my white peers painted up exorbitantly with fake feathers adorning their bodies, chanting around and doing the tomahawk chop. I was filled with so much anger and hurt I couldn’t hide it for Nape’ and Cetan — my two nephews. They asked what was wrong. I grabbed their hands, turned around and left. It is inevitable that with a team name like the “Fighting Sioux,” opponents and spectators will “unknowingly” say or do something that may hurt an actual Dakota/Lakota person who is watching. Why should one group of people have to differentiate between the literal term and fun in the name of sports?

I say B.S. I was at UND from Fall of 1993 till Dember of 1999. I have never in all of my years here seen anyone wearing anything like that nor have I seen anyone doing the Tomahawk chop. I have also had season tickets at UND since the Ralph opened for hockey, plus I have gone to many football games and I have never, never, never, never, never; seen this type of bull crap described by this person, nor would it have gone unchallenged if it did happen. I doubt this person is even a student at UND but a hired gun to stir up trouble in the national media to strong arm UND into changing the name.

This story is wrong and needs to be addressed. Nothing like spewing non facts to make your case. I wouldn't be shocked if she was talking about the people that wear the green hair.

This post has been edited by Goon: 17 October 2005 - 10:09 AM

[PCM]

Goon, on Oct 17 2005, 10:07 AM, said:

I say B.S. I was at UND from Fall of  1993 till Dember of 1999. I have never in all of my years here seen anyone wearing anything like that nor have I seen anyone doing the Tomahawk chop. <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wondered what others thought of this claim. I've been to quite a few Sioux football games since I moved to Grand Forks in 1992 and I've never seen anything like this.

[UND92,96]

PCM, on Oct 17 2005, 11:12 AM, said:

Goon, on Oct 17 2005, 10:07 AM, said:

I say B.S. I was at UND from Fall of  1993 till Dember of 1999. I have never in all of my years here seen anyone wearing anything like that nor have I seen anyone doing the Tomahawk chop. <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wondered what others thought of this claim. I've been to quite a few Sioux football games since I moved to Grand Forks in 1992 and I've never seen anything like this.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've been going to UND games for pretty much my entire life, and I've never seen anyone dressed up in feathers or doing the tomahawk chop at a UND game. I think perhaps the writer confused us with Florida State.

[dagies]

I've been at a handful of hockey games over the past 5 years and never seen anything like it either.

She barely got in the door of one event, and never attended one additional event yet portrays this behavior as pervasive. She says she doesn't have a chip on her shoulder.

I suspect she just doesn't recognize the block she's always carried.


Again, she goes on to elaborate on all the racism she's encountered, but the nickname didn't cause people to react that way. And if someone challenges you because you wear a "change the nickname" t-shirt, is that necessarily harrassment? What exactly happened?

She wants a group to come and say how bad things are. What governmental Civil Rights group came and checked things out and found nothing?

[HockeyMom]

Quote

Throughout those five years at UND I was glad I did not attend another game because the vulgar, despicable T-shirts, signs and cheers made by both sides would have undoubtedly infuriated me more. I don’t think another race of human beings has to put up with chants such as “Pillage the village, rape the women!” There would be an uprising! — if we had more of a population.

So she "claims" she attended ONE and then says she was glad she didn't go to anymore because she would have seen and heard vulgar things if she did? Yeah right and pretty soon monkeys.......

And where did she hear the chant, "Pillage the village, rape the women!" I don't think anyone would put up with someone saying that.

I was at UND from 92-97 and I didn't see in 4.5 years what she claims she saw at less than one football game. WAIT that would mean I was probably at that football game she was talking about.......

[Goon]

UND92, on 96,Oct 17 2005, 11:20 AM, said:

PCM, on Oct 17 2005, 11:12 AM, said:

Goon, on Oct 17 2005, 10:07 AM, said:

I say B.S. I was at UND from Fall of  1993 till Dember of 1999. I have never in all of my years here seen anyone wearing anything like that nor have I seen anyone doing the Tomahawk chop. <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wondered what others thought of this claim. I've been to quite a few Sioux football games since I moved to Grand Forks in 1992 and I've never seen anything like this.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've been going to UND games for pretty much my entire life, and I've never seen anyone dressed up in feathers or doing the tomahawk chop at a UND game. I think perhaps the writer confused us with Florida State.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I mean really did anyone check this crap out before it was written. Most Gopher fans that come to the REA know this crap isn't true.

[Sioux-cia]

PCM, on Oct 17 2005, 08:49 AM, said:

From The Minnesota Daily:

North Dakota’s nickname offends many
It was this football game at UND that changed my perspective and made me really think about the whole mascot issue. I witnessed several of my white peers painted up exorbitantly with fake feathers adorning their bodies, chanting around and doing the tomahawk chop. <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Where have I been? I have never seen anyone with fake feathers adorning their bodies, chanting around and doing the tomahawk chop. Yes, I've seen painted faces, not a'la American Indian but rather the same painted faces I see on faces of fans of schools without Indian names.

[PCM]

Waste’wica Ku Win Young and Waste’Win Yellow Lodge Young are certainly making the rounds. Now she's telling Harvard not to play UND.

Quote

I hope that Harvard fans, team members, and the athletic department take into consideration my experiences and the experiences of those like me when Harvard and the University of North Dakota ice hockey teams meet this December. At the very least, I hope that your fans will be more considerate of our traditions than many of our other opponents or our own supposed supporters.

Of course, it helps to throw in a racially inflamatory image of the "average Sioux fan."

[fightonsioux]

At the Saturday hockey game there was a student with a headdress on. I do no condone this and I'm sure it was some idiot that was drunk and thought it was funny. I hope he was put in his place. It's a few idiots like that that give all of us a bad name.

To quote Dorreen Yellow Bird

"don't judge a whole group by the actions of a few."

[redwing77]

fightonsioux, on Oct 17 2005, 11:51 AM, said:

At the Saturday hockey game there was a student with a headdress on. I do no condone this and I'm sure it was some idiot that was drunk and thought it was funny. I hope he was put in his place. It's a few idiots like that that give all of us a bad name.

To quote Dorreen Yellow Bird

"don't judge a whole group by the actions of a few."
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As liberal as what I'm about to say is going to sound: if I were the security people, I wouldn't have let that person in with that headdress.

That's disrespectful, but even so, the Northeastern crowd doing the tomahawk chop probably did more damage to our cause.

[Sioux-cia]

PCM, on Oct 17 2005, 10:49 AM, said:

Waste’wica Ku Win Young and Waste’Win Yellow Lodge Young are certainly making the rounds. Now she's telling Harvard not to play UND.

Quote

I hope that Harvard fans, team members, and the athletic department take into consideration my experiences and the experiences of those like me when Harvard and the University of North Dakota ice hockey teams meet this December. At the very least, I hope that your fans will be more considerate of our traditions than many of our other opponents or our own supposed supporters.

Of course, it helps to throw in a racially inflamatory image of the "average Sioux fan."
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I bet ten bucks, oops, I mean dollars, that she is sending this same editorial with school name changed to every school we will be competing with this year.

[star2city]

HockeyMom, on Oct 17 2005, 11:29 AM, said:

And where did she hear the chant, "Pillage the village, rape the women!" I don't think anyone would put up with someone saying that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

She probably never neard that chant unless she was at an NDSU/UND football game. This poster says that chant occurred, but it was uttered by NDSU fans against Grand Forks and the UND campus:

gjacks, on March 6 2003, 6:10 PM, said:

To JBB, bisonguy, tony, and all of the other Bison apologists who have offered their "insights" on the behavior of fans at Saturday night's game: Shame on you. Couch it any way like but these acts are deplorable and have no place in a civil society. Vulgarity, profanity, and this kind of in-your-face intimidation from the bleachers have turned a great traditional rivalry from a fun time for all into an episode of "Survivor" (but without the intellectual benefits of that program). I think the chant of "rape their women" from NDSU students during a game at Memorial Stadium signalled the beginning of the end of a civil rivalry. Take your boorish behavior to Division I and Godspeed to you. I for one am looking forward to a time when I can again enjoy the atmosphere of fans being enthusiastic about THEIR team.

http://siouxsports.com/forums/index.php?sh...indpost&p=11382

[Goon]

If Harvard decides not to come, won't happen mind you (we are probably giving them a nice hunk of change to come here), they would have to forfeit their games.

[ScottM]

Quote

I am a 27-year-old college graduate who aspires to be a lawyer, a mother and a teacher.

She should quit when she's ahead.

Besides, if she thinks UND is a "white boy's fraternity", she's never seen Harvard's athletic department.