MinnesotaNorthStar Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 For me I feel more into the game when standing, but I agree it doesn't add anymore to the atmosphere just because we stand. The students need to be cheering constantly like the Cameron Crayzies do at Duke basketball games. We can do this sitting down, we would PREFER to stand, but we can do it sitting like we have been TRYING to do. The agreement we had the last few years I feel was good, but the lack of enforcement was the major cause of its failure (not the only cause, but you have to admit it does play a significant roll). So I say this....keep the students where we are, we sit and cheer until exciting moments in the game, then we can stand. Again I would like to stand the whole game, but we need to be respectful of the people in the sections around us as well. I also agree with airmail....NASCAR??, you've got to be kidding me. Hockey is THE most exciting sport in the world, hands down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatspin7 Posted May 5, 2003 Author Share Posted May 5, 2003 [How do they manage to generate such atmosphere at the X without any standing students? The idea that students must stand to generate atmosphere is a myth, a way to rationalize the continuation of a rude, disrespectul and inconsiderate practice. Minneapolis has a great number of Hockey fans who were deprived of hockey for a few years. Your right no students are included there. And maybe you are right that students are not necessary to create noise and atmosphere in an arena, but when 1/2 of the season ticket holders are a bunch of status seekers who have never been a fighting Sioux ticket holder before (old ralph) they dont know what it was like. Maybe if the rest of the crowd would considder making some noise and what not at times other than TV time outs and between face offs maybe the atmosphere would improve. To be honest the atmosphere sucked even during the 1/2 of the season when we were killing everybody in sight. I can only think of one or two times when that building got really cranking and that noise ended the minute the puck was dropped... PATHETIC. Ok maybe the students do say and do things that can be construed as vulgar and inconsiderate but if it wasnt for that the Ralph would be so quiet you can hear Don Lucia fart on the opposing bench (sorry for the cheap shot at the gophers but I couldnt resist) So I am saying that maybe if the rest of the fans and I am not outing everyone here because I know there are some great fans out there who know what Fighting Sioux hockey is supposed to be like, but I turn the mirror on the rest of the fans, I am sick and tired of being villianized as a student who gets the the games at 4 o'clock to stand outside in Sub-zero weather just to get my seat behind the penalty box. I stand during power plays, I stand during the last minute of the game and when people tell me to sit my ass down during those times I turn to them and ask them "Why are you sitting?" During other parts of the game I respectfully sit and cheer and heckel the unfortunate soul in the penalty box ( I loved having the Wookie there... that was fun ) I make noise and encourage others to do so, if that involves using the F-bomb or other words I guess its all part of the deal. If you are a parent and bought general admit seats in the student section you should be prepared to hear that. There are some students that take things to far and cross the line, and frankly they dont care what the other students around them say. So stop this "students should police themselves" BullS**t. In the little perfect world where every respects everybody else this would work but this is the real world not Mr. Rogers (RIP) neihborhood. There are A$$holes out there and maybe they deserve to get booted out of the arena, I dont sit around them so they dont effect my ability to see the game. The few students that post on this board (that I know) probably agree with everything I have said here. Its a two way street PCM and Lawkota you must remember that those athletes that you are watching down there are STUDENTS. It sickens me to see fans in the expensive seats leaving the game with 3 minutes left in a one goal game. The students are the voice of UND. With out the Students there would be no UND and there for no Fighting Sioux hockey... Then what would you do for fun in this town. I apologize for the rant but I am fed up with the crappy ass light all the students are portrayed in and how the actions of a few individuals reflects students as a whole. The Old Ralph was feared by opponents you want to know why? That place was 50% students and it was always loud. Every game no matter what that arena cranked! I am sure some of the others here remember that too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 The same plaintive whines from students as when I went to UND. However, standing wasn't really an issue, people generally only stood when there was scoring, fighting or something else worth watching. From a fan, and former player's perspective, I don't really see how a bunch of semi-sober clowns standing really intimidates anybody on the ice, especially if they're just standing there, picking their asses and not paying attention to the game. A loud, noisy crowd is something else. If they move a bunch of the students to the upper bowl, they should try to do something to increase the sound/noise from that area. Maybe mic it or adjust any sound baffles they have so the noise is directed at the ice. As far as a "boycott" is concerned, they reduced student seating at least once in the old barn because the team wasn't doing well, student "fans" weren't showing up and the AD saw a chance to sell the seats to the public. Result: When the team came back again, more students were left standing outside or watching the games from home or a bar if they were on the tube. 60% students in the old REA? Maybe if there was a basketball game at Hyslop around the same time. Even when the gophers or badgers came to town, you might be pressing to reach 45-50% students. Unlike most student ticketholders, most season holders view the game as more than an excuse to get drunk, find out where the parties are and generally socialize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 Scott_M I think that was well put. These standers can go to the bar and stand and socialize, I am sure there is standing room only at the edge or at some other bar like the El Rocko, or else sit down and cheer and stand up when there is a goal or something exciting. Some of these students are acting like spoiled brats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatspin7 Posted May 6, 2003 Author Share Posted May 6, 2003 If you recall. I do sit for most of the game. I just dont appreciate the students getting moved because of a small group of a$$holes. A boycott would be a stupid idea. They would just open more seats for REA to sell at those games and it really wouldnt get any point across, but telling the powers that be whats on my mind... theres nothing wrong with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 Its a two way street PCM and Lawkota you must remember that those athletes that you are watching down there are STUDENTS. It sickens me to see fans in the expensive seats leaving the game with 3 minutes left in a one goal game. The students are the voice of UND. With out the Students there would be no UND and there for no Fighting Sioux hockey... I am well aware that the players are students. I imagine that's why they call it "college hockey." As I've said in this thread, I support the students being at ice level and having as many students as possible attend the games. It wouldn't be college hockey without the college atmosphere. The students are a major part of that. But I also know that standing up during games and chanting obscenities in unison does not equal college atmosphere. Those activities also don't endear students to the public. It would be nice to think that UND students today could be as creative and original as some of the students I've read about and heard about in years past. Finally, you need to disabuse yourself of the idea that without students, there would be no UND and no Fighting Sioux hockey. The fact is, without the taxpayers of North Dakota and alumni contributions, there would no universities in North Dakota. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mksioux Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 Come on people. Enough with the students vs. season ticket holder crap. Yes, there would be no UND without the students. And yes, UND would be too expensive for anyone to attend without alumni contributions and the taxpayers. Everyone knows this. Who cares! Both sides can coexist. I'm old enough to not want to stand for an entire hockey game. But I'm young enough to remember when that was fun. I also realize that people who pay money for tickets don't like an obstructed view. For whatever reason, fans tend to be louder when they're standing. In the long term, I think the atmosphere would be better to place less restrictions on the students. But this means moving them to a place where they will least obstruct the view of others. I wish that would be the south end, but everyone says that's not a possibility. So I guess the north end will have to do...with as many lower bowl seats as possible. With regards to profanity in chants...I get a kick out of it as long as it's creative or original. This debate likely falls along parent/non-parent lines. I don't have kids, but I'd like to think that a hockey game is as good of place as any for them to learn the swear words they're eventually going to learn anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinnesotaNorthStar Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 Come on people. Enough with the students vs. season ticket holder crap. Yes, there would be no UND without the students. And yes, UND would be too expensive for anyone to attend without alumni contributions and the taxpayers. Everyone knows this. Who cares! Both sides can coexist. I'm old enough to not want to stand for an entire hockey game. But I'm young enough to remember when that was fun. I also realize that people who pay money for tickets don't like an obstructed view. For whatever reason, fans tend to be louder when they're standing. In the long term, I think the atmosphere would be better to place less restrictions on the students. But this means moving them to a place where they will least obstruct the view of others. I wish that would be the south end, but everyone says that's not a possibility. So I guess the north end will have to do...with as many lower bowl seats as possible. With regards to profanity in chants...I get a kick out of it as long as it's creative or original. This debate likely falls along parent/non-parent lines. I don't have kids, but I'd like to think that a hockey game is as good of place as any for them to learn the swear words they're eventually going to learn anyway. I agree 100%...I had never been to a Sioux game before I came here, and I learned to swear just fine, they're going to learn and use them anyway (there are exceptions), so why not learn at a Sioux hockey game . The responsibility to tell the kids it's wrong falls on the parents, you can't tell me that nobody here didn't swear up a storm in college. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedorov Posted May 8, 2003 Share Posted May 8, 2003 How do they manage to generate such atmosphere at the X without any standing students? From tonight's game: "The fans have been on their feet for the last seven minutes." What?? I thought they weren't allowed to stand there. Maybe you guys better go take care of the situation. We don't want this epidemic to spread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxhockey1 Posted May 8, 2003 Share Posted May 8, 2003 What would you all think about having sections 108 and 109 student season tickets. They would be distributed on a first-come first-serve basis. You could show up with your friends on the day they are distributed and decide where you and your pals want to sit. The day would be advertised for a month or so in order to give people time to take off work or whatever. You could camp out or whatever to get the good seats. Some would be saved for single game tickets. This would help with keeping the uncooperative students out of the arena. We would also be able to get back the 80 some seats in the last 2 rows that have been roped off. Let me know what you guys think. Would you rather be moved to the corner and lose seats? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinnesotaNorthStar Posted May 8, 2003 Share Posted May 8, 2003 What would you all think about having sections 108 and 109 student season tickets. They would be distributed on a first-come first-serve basis. You could show up with your friends on the day they are distributed and decide where you and your pals want to sit. The day would be advertised for a month or so in order to give people time to take off work or whatever. You could camp out or whatever to get the good seats. Some would be saved for single game tickets. This would help with keeping the uncooperative students out of the arena. We would also be able to get back the 80 some seats in the last 2 rows that have been roped off. Let me know what you guys think. Would you rather be moved to the corner and lose seats? They have those...they're called student season tickets. I hate the idea of assigned seats for hockey games for students. It goes back to people not going to games and they're seat is empty. That's ridiculous. Let those of us who wait outside in the sub-zero weather for two hours get our seats tight up front. That's enough of a first come first serve. You must be one of those people that wants to have a good seat, but doesn't want to get to the arena early for games. Tough, buddy. Get there with the rest of us and EARN the good seats. Just because you can camp out for one night doesn't mean you should get the seats you want. You need to earn them each and every game. How would it help keep uncooperative students out anymore than general admin? So, to recap...BAD IDEA. It undermines the TRUE Hardcore fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatspin7 Posted May 8, 2003 Author Share Posted May 8, 2003 Assigned seats are a bad idea. I dont always go to the game with the same number of people and it would suck to say a friend could not sit with us becuase the schmuck next to us never uses his season ticket. Season tickets equals empty seats, I always tried to get pass off my ticket if there was a game that I was not going to be able to make, but people dont do that always. Assigned seats will only worsen the problem. At least now is some people dont show up no seats down low are left empty. If the guy who has some choice seats never shows up those seats are empty... booooo If the Ralph wants to avoid problem people all they have to do is get a hold of their ID and invalidate it effectively banning that person from the arena. The ticket checkers there are pretty through it is seems to be difficult to get in with someone elses ID even though Im sure its been done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinnesotaNorthStar Posted May 8, 2003 Share Posted May 8, 2003 Assigned seats are a bad idea. I dont always go to the game with the same number of people and it would suck to say a friend could not sit with us becuase the schmuck next to us never uses his season ticket. Season tickets equals empty seats, I always tried to get pass off my ticket if there was a game that I was not going to be able to make, but people dont do that always. Assigned seats will only worsen the problem. At least now is some people dont show up no seats down low are left empty. If the guy who has some choice seats never shows up those seats are empty... booooo If the Ralph wants to avoid problem people all they have to do is get a hold of their ID and invalidate it effectively banning that person from the arena. The ticket checkers there are pretty through it is seems to be difficult to get in with someone elses ID even though Im sure its been done. The ticket takers can be brutal...remember this: "If they give you trouble, kick 'em in the shins" And I think flatspin means they are thorough. ...BTW, I better see you at Springfest flatspin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mksioux Posted May 8, 2003 Share Posted May 8, 2003 From the mailbag in the Herald today. And, no, I'm not the writer....just throwing it out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted May 8, 2003 Share Posted May 8, 2003 What?? I thought they weren't allowed to stand there. Maybe you guys better go take care of the situation. We don't want this epidemic to spread. Nobody said you shouldn't ever be able to stand. I'm sure that if I'd been at last night's Wild game, I would have been standing and cheering for the last seven minutes of the game along with everyone else. But if I would have attempted to stand for the entire game, I would have been shown the door. I wonder how they got all that great atmosphere at the X without a large number of students and with all those greedy corporate suits cutting business deals in their expensive suites? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mksioux Posted May 8, 2003 Share Posted May 8, 2003 I wonder how they got all that great atmosphere at the X without a large number of students and with all those greedy corporate suits cutting business deals in their expensive suites? Maybe because it's the Cup playoffs. I've been to regular season Wild games with almost no atmosphere. Like them or not, college students are an integral part of the college hockey experience. While the atmosphere at NHL games can be exciting (especially in the playoffs), the student section is one of the ways college hockey distinguishes itself from NHL hockey. I don't think you'd fine too many college hockey fans that would want college hockey to emulate the atmosphere typical of most NHL hockey games. (the Ralph has gone as close to that line as they should) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted May 8, 2003 Share Posted May 8, 2003 Maybe because it's the Cup playoffs. I've been to regular season Wild games with almost no atmosphere. And I've gone to games in the old REA with almost no atmosphere. So what does that prove? It proves that what Ryan Bayda said last year: You can't expect the fans to cheer when you don't give them something to cheer about. Like them or not, college students are an integral part of the college hockey experience. Which is what I've said all along. I wouldn't have it any other way. I just don't buy into the idea that students should be able to do whatever they want simply because they're students. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatspin7 Posted May 8, 2003 Author Share Posted May 8, 2003 Which is what I've said all along. I wouldn't have it any other way. I just don't buy into the idea that students should be able to do whatever they want simply because they're students. I don't buy the idea that the Season ticket holder should be able to do what ever they want just becuase they make donations. Its a two way street PCM. There are compromises to be made, but unfortunatly some people dont want to do that. There are some students that will refuse to abide by any compromise, but those individuals might need to be dealt with, and expecting the students to police their own is unrealistic, they have been told and asked by the students to sit and they refused. What should be do? Take them out back and beat them senseless? I understand that donations permit the program to operate, but the students provide the other half of the equation, I graduate from UND in 2 weeks so I dont even know why I fight so hard for my fellow students even thought I am about to join the elite ranks of alumni, but I still have friends here and they dont deserve this treatment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedorov Posted May 8, 2003 Share Posted May 8, 2003 And I've gone to games in the old REA with almost no atmosphere. So what does that prove? Of course that happens, I've seen it several times. The students try to get the crowd going during EVERY game. It dies out when all of the season ticket holders are sitting on their a$$. When the team is losing, they are even worse about cheering and standing. I guess when you donate money you only have to like the team if they are winning. Before anything is said, I know there are student fans that jump on the bandwagon as well, but the student section is still always full even when the team is doing bad. That is not something the season ticket holders can say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted May 8, 2003 Share Posted May 8, 2003 I don't buy the idea that the Season ticket holder should be able to do what ever they want just becuase they make donations. Neither do I. So what are season ticket holders doing that prevents students from seeing and enjoying the games? Let me know, and I'll get on their case, too. Its a two way street PCM. There are compromises to be made, but unfortunatly some people dont want to do that. I see no reasonable compromise being offered by the Student Senate, which continues to back the idea that students have a right to stand throughout the entire game while occupying some of the best seats in the arena. And that's the problem. The organization negotiating on behalf of the students refuses to compromise. They don't want to sit and they don't want to move. That forces Roger Thomas to treat all students the same, even though most them don't deserve it. Like you, I don't agree that students should have to police themselves. At the same time, I also understand why the REA doesn't want to resort to the heavy handed tactic of using police or security to toss out students who insist on standing throughout every game. If you really want compromise, stop attacking the REA, Thomas and the season ticket holders. They're not the problem. The problem lies with the elected representatives of the student body, who appear to be hell bent on supporting the so-called "right" of a few students to stand at the expense of the majority who are willing to compromise. You might not have any influence with those who insist on standing, but you certainly do have influence with those you elected to negotiate with the AD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatspin7 Posted May 8, 2003 Author Share Posted May 8, 2003 I don't attack REA on this business becuase I know they do not have much in the way of say on how seats are allocated in the arena, but they did little to take care of the problem. The Senate is fighting for what the students want. I applaud the senate. The students want what they already have. We are not asking for any more. The lastest compromise that the senate sent to the ADs office should take care of the problem. It only the top 6 rows stand it shoulnt block anyones view of the game. I dont think that any one actually thinks that just moving the students to 111 is a fair move but the second plan with the assigned seating student section at the front of 110 is down right stupid. I understand that students do misbehave but it is not most of them. The vast majority of students have "gotten with the program" if it takes those students who havent getting kicked out of the arena so be it. I really dont care. Me personally as well as most of the students who go to the games sit for most of it maybe with the exception of powerplays and other critical times during the game, and most of that time they are making some kind of added noise. If they wanted to move the students to the corner they should move the students to the OTHER side of the ice, and give the students the big corner section and the one next to it at the end. While I dont know the exact numbers I think that they probably would be close. That section has a big cut out for the zamboni door. People should also not look beyond that fact that the Athletic office and the Fighting Sioux Club can make a lot of money by adding 100 lower bowl seats to the fray. It is apparent to me and a lot of other student leaders on campus that there is a financial aspect to this decision. I have spoke to and met with Roger Thomas a few times in the past 2 years and he has blatently lied to me on at least on occasion dealing with the Siouxcrew and the reservation of first 2 rows of the student section. They did if for about 3 or 4 weeks during the season, the day before the first game that they did this he claimed that they were not allowed to do it. Never the less they did. I am speaking truth from my personal experiances with Roger Thomas. I am not against season ticket holders or anything, I just want the fellow students to either keep what they have or to be treated fairly. Those that do what they are supposed to are being punished because no one in a position of authority wants to do anything about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted May 8, 2003 Share Posted May 8, 2003 The Senate is fighting for what the students want. Not according to what you previously stated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatspin7 Posted May 8, 2003 Author Share Posted May 8, 2003 Originally the senate was trying to push the compromise with a move still resulting in a loss of seats. Now they are fighting to keep the students where they want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted May 8, 2003 Share Posted May 8, 2003 Now they are fighting to keep the students where they want. While continuing to allow the students to stand. Sorry, but that's no compromise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedorov Posted May 8, 2003 Share Posted May 8, 2003 I see no reasonable compromise being offered by the Student Senate, which continues to back the idea that students have a right to stand throughout the entire game while occupying some of the best seats in the arena. Do you even know what a compromise is? What have the season ticket holders been willing to give up?? NOTHING!!! If they gave up their seats in sections 105-106, or something on the correct end, this discussion might be over. You sit and complain that the students think they deserve seats, but why should they not deserve seats compared to the season ticket holders? Feel free to attack the students all you want, but you are just showing your ignorance and your double standards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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