New nickname or none?

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

How do you market a null?

There will be a significant backlash against any new nickname, based on getting this change shoved down your throats by people who are out of touch with reality. In this case, marketing a "null" will be far easier than marketing a "negative" IMHO.

You might check with Marquette to see how they liked marketing "Golden Eagles". They liked it so much they're trying to change it but they can't come up with anything the public likes other than "Warriors" (the nickname taken away from them by their own PC-obsessed administration).

FWLIW, schools like Harvard really don't market based on their nickname. Neither does Stanford IMHO.

[PCM]

I do like PCM's "Nokota" idea, but that would take some educating of the public, which may be difficult marketing-wise as well.

What did we always say about "Fighting Sioux"? It led people to learn more about the Sioux. The same concept applies to "Nokota."

If you tie the "Nokota" nickname to a horse logo, people will get the idea that the name has something to do with horses. Some people might simply assume that it's a way to abbreviate "North Dakota," which it is. Heck, at one time, UND athletes were widely referred to as "Nodaks." I like "Nokotas" or "Nokes" a lot better.

Does everyone know what a Terrapin is? Or a Tar Heel? No, but most college sports fans know which schools those names belong to. Those names create a unique identity for those schools. It doesn't really matter if everyone understands the context behind the names. "Nokotas" gives UND an opportunity to create a one-of-a-kind identity for itself.

We now have a short video that explains the connection of UND athletics to "Fighting Sioux." Why not make a similar video explaining why the Nokota horse was chosen at the symbol of UND athletics?

[SportsDoc]

Again, for the "no moniker" crowd,

How do you market a null?

I mentioned the concept to a Gopher fan and the joke about North Dakota's moniker (in that scenario) being just like the state, a big empty place, rolled right off his tongue.

Yeah, let's be sure to pick our new name (or no name) based on the ability of opposing ability fans to ridicule it. Lest you forget, they have ridiculed the one we have now quite frequently, on all kinds of levels, and have for a long time.

[GeauxSioux]

What did we always say about "Fighting Sioux"? It led people to learn more about the Sioux. The same concept applies to "Nokota."

If you tie the "Nokota" nickname to a horse logo, people will get the idea that the name has something to do with horses. Some people might simply assume that it's a way to abbreviate "North Dakota," which it is. Heck, at one time, UND athletes were widely referred to as "Nodaks." I like "Nokotas" or "Nokes" a lot better.

Does everyone know what a Terrapin is? Or a Tar Heel? No, but most college sports fans know which schools those names belong to. Those names create a unique identity for those schools. It doesn't really matter if everyone understands the context behind the names. "Nokotas" gives UND an opportunity to create a one-of-a-kind identity for itself.

We now have a short video that explains the connection of UND athletics to "Fighting Sioux." Why not make a similar video explaining why the Nokota horse was chosen at the symbol of UND athletics?

Until someone comes up with a better nickname, Nokotas is number one on my list, in the event that a change has to occur. I have also come to agree that merchandise sales would go much better with a nickname than without. It took me a while, but I got there.

[engelbunny]

There will be a significant backlash against any new nickname, based on getting this change shoved down your throats by people who are out of touch with reality. In this case, marketing a "null" will be far easier than marketing a "negative" IMHO.

You might check with Marquette to see how they liked marketing "Golden Eagles". They liked it so much they're trying to change it but they can't come up with anything the public likes other than "Warriors" (the nickname taken away from them by their own PC-obsessed administration).

FWLIW, schools like Harvard really don't market based on their nickname. Neither does Stanford IMHO.

The Chief is right on here.

I wouldn't have even known that Marquette was the "Golden Eagles" because I don't care. UND only has to market itself to its fan base, because outside of that, nobody cares. I think most people that are die hard Sioux Fans, would rather be nothing if they can't be the Sioux.

We also don't have to worry about getting confused with the school to the south that calls itself the Bison; as that's going to happen anyway, because again, nobody really cares. Hell, even the WCHA can't get it right at it premier event - the Final 5.

I can't remember which South Dakota school is the Jackrabbits and which one is the other thing (Coyotes?) or even which town each one is in (Brookings vs Vermillion). Now obviously, I could look it up, but the point is I don't readily know, because I really could care less. I don't root for them and they don't play college hockey.

UND gets national recognition for one sport only, and that is hockey. On the whole, college hockey is a fringe sport. So, outside of the small world of college hockey fans (who know exactly who UND is), few people readily know about UND and few people care. I don't think that's going to change either as UND goes Division 1. Is football going to do the trick? I doubt it. Even our own fans don't care as evidenced by the meager crowd of 5,400 at the recent playoff game. Is BB going to do it? Very doubtful. Sometime in the future, UND could be lucky enough to win a conference, get an auto bid to the dance, and then be an oddity as they get trounced in the 1st round. That may seem cold, but it is reality.

So there is very little point trying to come up with a new snappy name the majority of our fans are going to hate; just because we are worried about trying to market ourselves to a population that doesn't give a crap.

[Fetch]

I like NoDaks = No Sioux

[YaneA]

The all powerful wikipedia has a list of team nicknames, in case you'd like to refresh your recollection of what sorts of names are used or overused

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._..._team_nicknames

This site organizes them by nickname, rather than school, but leaves out some adjectives, like "Fighting":

http://www.smargon.net/nicknames/

[MafiaMan]

What did we always say about "Fighting Sioux"? It led people to learn more about the Sioux. The same concept applies to "Nokota."

If you tie the "Nokota" nickname to a horse logo, people will get the idea that the name has something to do with horses. Some people might simply assume that it's a way to abbreviate "North Dakota," which it is. Heck, at one time, UND athletes were widely referred to as "Nodaks." I like "Nokotas" or "Nokes" a lot better.

Does everyone know what a Terrapin is? Or a Tar Heel? No, but most college sports fans know which schools those names belong to. Those names create a unique identity for those schools. It doesn't really matter if everyone understands the context behind the names. "Nokotas" gives UND an opportunity to create a one-of-a-kind identity for itself.

We now have a short video that explains the connection of UND athletics to "Fighting Sioux." Why not make a similar video explaining why the Nokota horse was chosen at the symbol of UND athletics?

I agree 110% about the importance of a logo being interpreted correctly and establishing a brand identity. Let me give you an example and you tell me what you think it is: Mavericks

Now, let me show you some Maverick logos...

Now, let's go look at a the definition...

Maverick: A definition

So, tell me, where do posing horse-heads, galloping stallions, angry cattle, longhorn steers, and steroid-ridden bulls meet that definition?

[MafiaMan]

I'm with the Chief on this one. I think that hardcore Fighting Sioux fans such as myself would tend to rebel against and/or boycott a new nickname more so than no nickname. Great example using Marquette. I never never knew they were the Warriors or the Golden Eagles, I just know that I've heard of Marquette.

That's because the university has tended to emphasize "Marquette" more than the nickname. Most of Marquette's sports uniforms, if not all, don't even reference Golden Eagles. Within the last year or two, the university announced an online campaign to change the name AGAIN, and Gold actually was the winner. Within days, it was announced that the name would remain Golden Eagles.

DaveK, I think you're overstating the importance of "Fighting Sioux." One of the big reasons "Gold" was shot down so quickly was because of Dwayne Wade saying he couldn't imagine being anything other than a Golden Eagle. Give it five years, and that's what UND hockey players will be saying about their new nickname.

Marquette Changes Name to "Gold"

Students Protest "Gold" Nickname

Golden Eagles Nickname Stays Put

[siouxnami]

How about the "Fighting Irish" And then add the most crude, vicious, stereotypical, non-PC, drunken Irish logo just to stick it in the eye of the NCAA. Make them rule that our Fighting Irish moniker is hostile and abusive... See what kind of can of worms that opens up...

[MafiaMan]

How about the "Fighting Irish" And then add the most crude, vicious, stereotypical, non-PC, drunken Irish logo just to stick it in the eye of the NCAA. Make them rule that our Fighting Irish moniker is hostile and abusive... See what kind of can of worms that opens up...

Why bother? Let's just pay Notre Dame and use theirs!

[MafiaMan]

I wonder if we doctored up the Irish logo a bit and advertised this...hmnnnnnn...how do you suppose Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and others would react?

...but it's a leprechaun with a tan!

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

That's because the university has tended to emphasize "Marquette" more than the nickname. Most of Marquette's sports uniforms, if not all, don't even reference Golden Eagles. Within the last year or two, the university announced an online campaign to change the name AGAIN, and Gold actually was the winner. Within days, it was announced that the name would remain Golden Eagles.

I don't know anything about this online campaign. The choice of "Gold" was a fiat handed down by the Marquette Board of Trustees. It had virtually NO support from the public, or anyone outside that board room for that matter.

DaveK, I think you're overstating the importance of "Fighting Sioux." One of the big reasons "Gold" was shot down so quickly was because of Dwayne Wade saying he couldn't imagine being anything other than a Golden Eagle. Give it five years, and that's what UND hockey players will be saying about their new nickname.

Hmm, one of the "big reasons" was Dwyane Wade's reaction? (BTW, he's from suburban Chicago.) That's not the way I remember it at all. This decision was a fiasco from the start, and the Board's ridiculous defense of the "brand" only made it worse. The Board Chairman came out with words like "Its going to be 'Gold' and that's final", other board members predicted that it would be adopted by the public; and it was like pouring gasoline on a fire. The day after the Gold decsion was announced Milwaukee newspapers were getting something like a 95% negative reaction in their online polls. The nickname "Gold" lasted something less than six days. The Marquette Board literally couldn't backpedal fast enough.

Finally, during the time I have posted in this forum I have learned that everyone has their own definition of what is and isn't a "timeline". So I'll only say this once and people can view it as they please. Here's an article dated May 16, 2005 which quotes Wade as uttering his "always be a Golden Eagle" line the Thursday before, which by my calendar would be May 12.

The Board abandoned the nickname "Gold" sometime during the afternoon of May 11th.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writ...0523/index.html

[bincitysioux]

Irish people sure are a funny lookin' bunch!

[The Sicatoka]

Mentioning "approved stereotypes" is the guy in the upper right of that link named Smith, Jones, or Finklestein?

[Goon]

Mentioning "approved stereotypes" is the guy in the upper right of that link named Smith, Jones, or Finklestein?

Too bad there isn't a North Dakota Seminole tribe.

[TheGreatSiouxNation]

Too bad there isn't a North Dakota Seminole tribe.

I'm part Creek Indian (I wonder if my family is considered a Tribe?) and I would give my endorsement. Plus I'm from Lakota so does that make me an expert in Indian affairs??

[TheGreatSiouxNation]

Too bad there isn't a North Dakota Seminole tribe.

[MafiaMan]

Finally, during the time I have posted in this forum I have learned that everyone has their own definition of what is and isn't a "timeline". So I'll only say this once and people can view it as they please. Here's an article dated May 16, 2005 which quotes Wade as uttering his "always be a Golden Eagle" line the Thursday before, which by my calendar would be May 12.

The Board abandoned the nickname "Gold" sometime during the afternoon of May 11th.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writ...0523/index.html

After some research, I again have to eat my words. That's been happening a lot lately.

The online vote was conducted sometime after May 23, 2005, which is when Marquette posted this:

Marquette Letter to Its Alumni

[MafiaMan]

Here were Marquette's 10 nickname choices as submitted to alumni for voting...

Marquette's Nickname List

Marquette Spirit? Golden Avalanche? Wolves?

Oh the originality...

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

Here were Marquette's 10 nickname choices as submitted to alumni for voting...

...Golden Avalanche?...

Golden Avalanche is one of their older nicknames, from the 1920's/30's era. As is Hilltoppers.

Apparently, as the school is built on a hill, "Hilltoppers" was a natural. And then someone wrote something like "the team came down the hill like a golden avalanche" and another nickname was born.

Ya gotta remember, a lot of these nicknames came from an era of when 2-3-4 competing newspapers all wanted to hire the most colorful writers.....

[Big A HG]

Golden Avalanche is one of their older nicknames, from the 1920's/30's era. As is Hilltoppers.

Apparently, as the school is built on a hill, "Hilltoppers" was a natural. And then someone wrote something like "the team came down the hill like a golden avalanche" and another nickname was born.

Ya gotta remember, a lot of these nicknames came from an era of when 2-3-4 competing newspapers all wanted to hire the most colorful writers.....

Marquette really isn't built on much of a hill though.

[LeftyZL]

Apparently, as the school is built on a hill, "Hilltoppers" was a natural. And then someone wrote something like "the team came down the hill like a golden avalanche" and another nickname was born.

Having lived in Milwaukee, if Marquette is built on a hill, so is UND.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

Having lived in Milwaukee, if Marquette is built on a hill, so is UND.

Marquette really isn't built on much of a hill though.

Don't blame me: its not like I named the neighborhood....

University Hill is a downtown neighborhood that is the home of Marquette University.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neighborhoods...University_Hill

And Wisconsin people call us Flatlanders.

(BTW, apparently the high school associated with Marquette University still uses "Hilltoppers" as their nickname.)

[spearman]

How about some variations of pro teams like Greenwings, Greenlegs, Greensox, Greenleafs etc.

Another idea!!

The Sault St. Marie tribe in the UP of Mich. is Chippawa. SAULT is pronounced SIOUX. The Chippawa occupy N.Dak. so they are related. I ran this by the head of gaming for the SAULT St. Maries and he said "no problem , go for it". "North Dakota Sault" has a nice ring. It covers 2 dominant tribes in our region and forces them to think about burying the old hatchet and get along. It's also a good spelling bee word to put us on the map.