siouxnami Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 Hey Goon they named a school after you http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...0815?hub=Canada $$$ Royalties... $$$ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skateshattrick Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 a. not a dirty hit? why did he take him low rather than up high as to not "sweep the leg?" that's a dirty hit. the guy has played hockey all his life... don't you think he could've taken a different route? b. boogard trying to injure somebody...? it's either him or the other guy that gets hurt. if you watched any hockey last year you'd notice that he didn't start 98% of the fights he was in. c. finally, many times you state that the "code" is stupid and doesn't serve a real purpose in the game..? how could all those Canadians be wrong? I agree. Anyone who has played hockey or even watched a lot of hockey can tell you that was a deliberate attempt to injure Neely. The knee on knee hits, which are a trademark of players like Bryan Marchment and Ulf Samuelsson, are often described as the dirtiest plays in all of hockeys. DaveK is entiled to his opinions, but he strains all credibility in arguing that Ulf is not a dirty player. If you do not believe me, look at Wikipedia.com and type in Ulf Samuelsson. You will find information on the careers that he ended and it notes that "in a 2002 ESPN poll, Samuelson was voted the 4th dirtiest professional sports player of all time." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Whistler Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 If you do not believe me, look at Wikipedia.com and type in Ulf Samuelsson. You will find information on the careers that he ended and it notes that "in a 2002 ESPN poll, Samuelson was voted the 4th dirtiest professional sports player of all time." He ended how many careers? But DaveK says that Ulf is good and fighting which rarely ends a career (or even causes a player to miss a game) is bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyMom Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 Okay, I'll use one last angle here in an attempt to make people see the light. My kids play hockey and I understand the bond between teammates. Even when they're as young as the Squirt level the bond is there and very apparent to anybody who spends any amount of time around the team throughout the course of the season. If one of my boys went up to an opposing player and got in a little push/shove with some words exchanged in the spirit of sticking up for a teammate I would be very proud. Get that guy out of your teammate's face, I'm all for that. But if he took his gloves off and punched a player in the face I would be very ashamed. And no I'm not just referring to right now while they're still in Pee-Wees and Squirts, I mean if they're still playing hockey at the high school level or beyond. I have no problem with a little scrum now and then when emotions are running high, but as soon as you make a conscious effort to rearrange somebody's face with your fist is when you've crossed the line. That goes for anyplace in society, not just on the hockey rink. Guys who get into bar fights and then decide to "take it outside"... jackasses. I guess maybe I'm just more evolved and civilized than those who feel otherwise and that's why I can't reach them no matter how eloquently I state it. OMFG......are we bringing up the Squirt hockey fiasco again? Someone on your kid's team CHECKED my kid and hurt him during a game because your team was getting beat..... Do you see me bringing it up? No. My kid was fine, it's a hockey game. Win gracefully and lose gracefully, and stop playing the angel about fighting. You're beating a dead horse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airmail Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 My take on things: If some guy grabs my wife's butt, I'm going to pound him. If some idiot breaks into my house, I'll shoot his/ her kneecaps out. (thanks ND Legislature ) People know when they're doing something wrong, and they should also know that sooner or later they'll get what's coming to them. Robbie knew it, Matt knew it, Geoff sure as hell knew it, and none of this should shock, surprise, or offend anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux-cia Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 My son, Phats, is a big, strong kid. Has always been a big, strong kid. I raised him to 'turn the other cheek'. I knew early on that he could easily hurt someone without meaning too. At the age of 9 or 10, he came home from school visibly upset. When asked what was wrong, he told me I was going to be very angry at him. He beat Jared up. Apparently for weeks, Jared had been bullying Phats and calling him names. Phats would just walk away. On that particular day, Phats had had enough. In very short order, he proved to Jared and his cohorts that he was not a #*$$y. They, no one, ever bothered him again. While they were never best buds, they were and still are friendly. The teacher who observed the fight at it's end did not punish either boy. The situation, well known to him, was over and did not require any further intervention. I explained to Phats I did not want him fighting other children but I completely understood why he had to do what he did. I did not punish, scold, etc. him. It was not indicated. The above story is not to explain the Greene instance but in response to you 'anti-violence' in all instances stance. DaveK, IMHO, you're wrong in the Greene and in your 'no fighting ever' stance. Nothing you say is going to change anyone on this boards opinion. In fact, in the Ulf scenario, I believe you're acting a bit, no, alot like a hypocrite. But then again, IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray77 Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 DaveK...I've read a lot of your comments on different threads in the past and have never replied, but this one is amazing. Fighting is absolutely horrible in hockey, but if anyone complains about Ulf Samuelsson kneeing someone else and ending their careers they are "crybabies"? I will just assume that you're kidding and just trying to rile people up on this messageboard. I also know now by your comments that you like hockey and you like the Sioux, which is great, but you never played hockey at any competitive level worth mentioning. If you don't like fighting in hockey, that's your opinion...whatever. Not everyone likes fighting or thinks it belongs in hockey and you can feel however you'd like about it. I don't want a hockey game to be fight after fight but I do believe that fighting does have a place in the game. As has been mentioned earlier regarding the Greene/Paukovich incident...Paukovich got what he deserved, and he knew it was coming one day. Now the 2 are teammates (or at least playing in the same organization) and will put it in the past. They shook hands and was reported that they went to dinner afterwards (true or not) but it's over with. If I'm playing hockey I want Greene on my team and DaveK on the other team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trunk Monkey Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 If by "WE" you mean "YOU" then I guess "WE" are bringing it up again. I made no mention of it. I merely made reference to the fact that I have kids who play hockey and I understand how close they are to their teammates. However, I maintain that under no circumstances would I ever condone my kids punching somebody in the face. That goes for both on and off the ice. Punching people in the face is not acceptable behavior. This isn't about Squirts hockey, but since you decided to open up an old can of worms I would be interested in hearing how you think you know the reason why your kid got checked by one of my son's teammates. How can you be so sure that he did it BECAUSE our team was losing? Maybe it's just that he got overly aggressive and had a lapse of good judgement, which is almost always the case when kids get called for checking or any other penalty in youth hockey. Do I see you bringing it up? Yes I do. You just brought it up. I wasn't talking about any Squirts hockey fiasco. I was talking about the fact that I think it's disgusting for a person to punch another person in the face. The ONLY reference made to Squirts hockey was that I understand the bond between teammates based on the fact that I have witnessed it firsthand at that level. That bond is no excuse for resorting to settling your differences like cavemen. And for as much as you find it "disgusting" that someone would ever punch someone in the face, I believe that it is 100% more disgusting to hit someone from behind. At least in a fight, you have a chance to defend yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diggler Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 The Greene-Paukovich fight did not even happen according to CO14ers on USCHO. But since that isn't even what this thread is about anymore, I guess it doesn't really matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux-cia Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 The Greene-Paukovich fight did not even happen according to CO14ers on USCHO. But since that isn't even what this thread is about anymore, I guess it doesn't really matter. 32 days 04:54 until the puck drops! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 The Greene-Paukovich fight did not even happen according to CO14ers on USCHO. So they just went out to dinner together? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux-cia Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 People get accidentally hit from behind in competitive sports all the time. Aaaarrrrgh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Punkobitch's hit on Bina was NOT an accident!!!!!! @#$%^&*!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skateshattrick Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 People who call him a dirty player are crybabies. Ulf Samuelsson may have accidentally caused some injuries due to his physical play. Hey, it's a contact sport. If you can't be a man about it and accept the risk you have no business suiting up. Accidentally hurting somebody trying to make a play is 100 times more acceptable than deliberately hurting somebody by making a fist and then proceeding to punch them in the face as hard as you can. I'm sure if you asked Ulfie's former coaches and teammates to describe his style of play you'd get a much different answer than what that imbecile Don Cherry or other whiners say. Wow. Nice mature response. We are "crybabies" for seeing the obvious. You use emotionally charged language like "impecile" and "whiners" to describe Don Cherry or anyone who dares to disagree with you. Apparently, you don't condone violence, but resorting to name-calling and put downs is acceptable conduct. Did you even read the Wikepedia report?? Obviously not because you only see the world through your clouded vision. Anyone who is not an apologist or with any common sense knows when someone tries to hurt another by sticking out a knee, but particularly other players know. The players know that Samuelsson and Marchment are dirty players--they have said it repeatedly. The fact that you dislike and/or disagree with Don Cherry is really irrelevant to the discussion and evades the fact that hockey players (particularly his peers in the NHL) believed Ulf was a dirty player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diggler Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 So they just went out to dinner together? No. They also held hands and skipped around the West Edmonton Mall together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 No. They also held hands and skipped around the West Edmonton Mall together. That's good. I was worried there for a minute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABER Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 I think you need to let this one go DaveK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skateshattrick Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 Ulf Samuelsson played the role of agitator, an important role in the game of hockey. He's the kind of guy you love to have on your team but love to hate when he's on the other team. His style of play served a purpose within the context of the game. If you can't accept that you just don't know anything about hockey. That means a lot coming from you. I have forgotten more about hockey than you will ever know. But forget about me and everyone else on this message board--it is clear Dave that you know more than all of the players that played against him. You really need to let this go before you lose whatever credibility that you once had. Come back when you are lucid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxnami Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 If this thread could speak it would say... KILL ME NOW... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux_Hab-it Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 I was almost ready to let it go until Ulf Samuelsson's name got dragged into the mud. That got my blood boiling big-time. How anybody can badmouth a great physical player like Ulf while at the same time applauding the goon tactics of thugs like Derek Boogard makes my head spin. I wasn't going to jump into this repeat argument with Dave the Tree Hugger until he called the giant meatball Ulf a great physical player. Sorry but anyone who goes out of his way on numerous occaisions to execute a knee on knee deserves to eat his steak through a straw. Whether you like it or not the game of hockey is one of regulated violence. If you can't accept that fact along with the unwritten rules of fair play and settling scores I think you should take up watching curling instead. Oh wait, forget that idea, the rocks hit each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siouxdonyms Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 I was almost ready to let it go until Ulf Samuelsson's name got dragged into the mud. That got my blood boiling big-time. How anybody can badmouth a great physical player like Ulf while at the same time applauding the goon tactics of thugs like Derek Boogard makes my head spin. I stand firmly behind my opinion that Ulf's style of play served a purpose within the context of the game. Just ask any of his former coaches and/or teammates. I won't back down from that opinion, but I will drop the subject as long as those who feel otherwise are willing to do the same. Ulfie had some skill. However, you said it best...he was an agitator, which leads to what? Fights. The very thing you're arguing about. Ulf was brought to Pittsburgh to protect Lemieux. He also wore oversized pads, which Neely referred to as "his suit of armor." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 Ulf Samuelsson played the role of agitator, an important role in the game of hockey. He's the kind of guy you love to have on your team but love to hate when he's on the other team. His style of play served a purpose within the context of the game. If you can't accept that you just don't know anything about hockey. Now your sounding ridiculous, on this subject. The fact that you continue to say that Samuelsson wasn't a dirty player is mind boggling. The Dirty Swedes Wikipedia entry Ulf Samuelsson (Born March 26, 1964, in Fagersta, V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 I wasn't going to jump into this repeat argument with Dave the Tree Hugger until he called the giant meatball Ulf a great physical player. Sorry but anyone who goes out of his way on numerous occaisions to execute a knee on knee deserves to eat his steak through a straw. Whether you like it or not the game of hockey is one of regulated violence. If you can't accept that fact along with the unwritten rules of fair play and settling scores I think you should take up watching curling instead. Oh wait, forget that idea, the rocks hit each other. EXACTLY... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Whistler Posted September 6, 2007 Share Posted September 6, 2007 I should have chosen my words more carefully. Now that I go back and re-read what I posted I can see where it didn't come across the way I had intended. The hits may not be accidental, but the injuries are. I'm sure there have been some players who wanted to knock a guy out of a game on different occassions, but I don't believe that anybody ever goes out there with intentions of ending somebody's season or career. First of all the injury was not unintentional. Any player hitting another player like that knows that it's likely to cause an injury. The fact that DaveK makes excuses for Paukovich really shows his mentality. But let's talk about the lack of fighting in college hockey and some of the consequences. In other leagues you don't have players running the goalies but it's rampant in college hockey. In an earlier comment you stated that the officials will take care of it. That if the player continues to commit the infractions the coach will take care of the matter. I say that the two minutes that officials usually call for running the goalie doesn't deter them at all. If Don Lucia didn't want Ben Gordon to run the goalie every chance he got then yes Lucia would do something about. I would say that Lucia feels that two minutes is a small price to pay for taking the goalie out of his game (if not the game itself). The only deterrent for Gordon last year was when a Mankato (if memory serves) player punched him enough times that the official through both players out for fighting. An example closer to home was when we were playing Mankato at home. Phil took a knee to the head without even a call. Mankato was able to score once (or was it twice) in short order while he undoubtedly had cobwebs. That running the goalie cost us a game. Now in a perfect world the officials would take care of it. But they don't in the real world. The lack of fighting gives a green light to run the goalies which hurts the game and leads to more injuries than would otherwise occur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torpedo Posted September 6, 2007 Share Posted September 6, 2007 When two players collide knee to knee they both have an equal chance of being injured. Ulf was putting his own health at risk for the sake of making plays for his team. That is most definitely not true! If one person sticks their leg out to hit someone and can be ready for it, that person will be fine every time. It's the player who is unaware that they are about to have a knee-on-knee that is in danger of ending their career. So to say that Ulf hitting someone knee-on-knee was putting his own health at risk is just ignorant. It's a dirty, dirty, dirty move. IMO hitting someone knee-on-knee intentionally is just about the dirtiest thing a hockey player can do. Obviously it happens accidentally sometimes, then both players are at risk, but intentional...Ulf wasn't in danger when he did that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted September 6, 2007 Share Posted September 6, 2007 IMO hitting someone knee-on-knee intentionally is just about the dirtiest thing a hockey player can do. Obviously it happens accidentally sometimes, then both players are at risk, but intentional...Ulf wasn't in danger when he did that. Yes it is... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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