A 12-Team WCHA

[Goon]

It appears the best we can hope for is to replace Bemidji St with the loss of Wisconsin and Minnesota with the hopes that UND will be able to become a member of the Big Ten Conference since it will obviously need members anyways.

Otherwise a conference UND is in without "Big Names" (MN & WI) would be very bad for UND.

I have been hearing people talking about the Big Ten Hockey Conference or 10+ years and it has yet to come to fruition, someone from the big ten has to add hockey first. Iowa, Indiana, Illinois, Pennsylvania aren't exactly hot beds of hockey. Also, like someone mentioned if that was case there would be some top quality teams left out of the NCAA tourney every year because they were beating up on each other for 4-6 games someone like a MSU, Michigan or Minnesota is going to be left out of the NCAA tourney.

[Big A HG]

I know there are a few Bemidji natives on here, so I don't mean to offend them if they had a soft spot for BSU, but when it's not the week that UND plays them, or if you're not talking about them in discussions about adding them to the WCHA, who even notices that they are in college hockey? Why not just let them go. If the CHA isn't good enough for them, obviously they're not serious about their own hockey program, they'd be basically mooching off the fact they are in a big name conference with big name schools. There isn't one thing about them that says WCHA except their location.

-They don't make a significant impact on the overall college hockey fanbase

-They don't bring in very much money in hockey

-Although they are gritty and can play good teams tough, they don't bring a great deal of talent to college hockey consistently

-No one even knows they're there really

+Allows players a chance at a college hockey career

I hate to see them leave college hockey too, but when you really think about, there isn't much we lose if they, and there is less we gain if they stay.

[Goon]

I know there are a few Bemidji natives on here, so I don't mean to offend them if they had a soft spot for BSU, but when it's not the week that UND plays them, or if you're not talking about them in discussions about adding them to the WCHA, who even notices that they are in college hockey? Why not just let them go. If the CHA isn't good enough for them, obviously they're not serious about their own hockey program, they'd be basically mooching off the fact they are in a big name conference with big name schools. There isn't one thing about them that says WCHA except their location.

-They don't make a significant impact on the overall college hockey fanbase

-They don't bring in very much money in hockey

-Although they are gritty and can play good teams tough, they don't bring a great deal of talent to college hockey consistently

-No one even knows they're there really

+Allows players a chance at a college hockey career

I hate to see them leave college hockey too, but when you really think about, there isn't much we lose if they, and there is less we gain if they stay.

One could make the argument about a lots of the schools in the WCHA, they would be called the have littles. I remember when people didn't want MSU-M to be in the leauge, I personally was opposed to it and wanted UNO to be in the league instead. I think BSU would just as good as those schools already in the WCHA. BSU coach Tom Serratore as an assistant coach at SCSU was in charge of recruiting at SCSU and could recruit at a WCHA level. To say that BSU wouldn't add anything to the WCHA is short sighted.

[Big A HG]

One could make the argument about a lots of the schools in the WCHA, they would be called the have littles. I remember when people didn't want MSU-M to be in the leauge, I personally was opposed to it and wanted UNO to be in the league instead. I think BSU would just as good as those schools already in the WCHA. BSU coach Tom Serratore as an assistant coach at SCSU was in charge of recruiting at SCSU and could recruit at a WCHA level. To say that BSU wouldn't add anything to the WCHA is short sighted.

I also would agree that BSU is a better addition than Mankato, but who's to say that Mankato belongs in the league either. Take Mankato and UAA out, add them into the CHA, and get the CCHA to give up a couple. Then they have a nice 9-league team, we'd be back down to 8 and playing teams home and away every year.

If you're so quick to say I'm short-sighted for thinking they don't add anything, why can't you say why they do? You wrote five sentences but basically said nothing. I'm not opposed to hearing what you have to say, as long as you give me something to listen to.

[The Sicatoka]

Leagues "dumping" teams makes for bad situations down the road. You reap what you sew sooner or later.

A league made up of UAA, MSU-Mankato, and Bemidji State plus the rest of CHA? Who in that group could afford that travel?

Alternatively, how would UND fans feel if they got a "provisional" or "associate" status in Big Ten Hockey but didn't make national tournaments (someone in league will have a losing conference record and bad RPI from it) but the winners of the now weaker WCHA and the CHA did?

This problem doesn't have a simple solution. You need to think through all of the possible impacts.

[MafiaMan]

I don't think it would be that hard for the WCHA (or any other team) to make/pay for a trophy and start its own history instead of having to always worry about having Michigan Tech being in the league for use of their cup.

Now that I think about it. Who needs the history of the McNaughton Cup. Shouldn't the league care more about the history of the WCHA and its championships than the simple name and looks of the cup that the winner is awarded?

You speak as if Michigan Tech has no history of championships and playoff appearances. Every time I hear people talk about the Huskies leaving the WCHA, it's because they feel "Tech sucks anways" and really don't know about MTU's heyday, particularly the mid-1970's.

You folks dreaming of Bemidji State and other schools joining the WCHA so you can wave good-bye to Minnesota and Wisconsin had better hope and pray UND gets a Big 10 Conference invitation. Recruits come to UND to play big-time hockey, not play Robert Morris, Alabama Huntsville, Bemidji State, and Minnesota State. I mean no disrespect to those schools, they're just not big-time.

[MafiaMan]

...and I have had many UND fans tell me the MacNaughton Cup isn't very important, anyways. I am sure many UND fans would gladly trade two games against MTU with games against more traditional rivals if they could. Who really wants to go to the UP anyway?

I don't know what morons you run into, Happy, but if the MacNaughton Cup isn't important, they should start stripping WCHA championship banners from Mariucci and Engelstad IMMEDIATELY! It seems to me the WCHA Final Five playoff champion enjoys that title as well.

UND and MTU have a storied history against each other in the WCHA. Exactly who are these 'traditional rivals' that you speak of that UND fans would gladly trade games against Tech for? Maybe we could get Moscow Dynamo to come back as a 'traditional rival'?

[Millsy]

Big A HG,

Bemidji State is serious about hockey, but travel costs are killing the BSU Hockey Budget and they can not continue to sustain the financial hit "for the good of college hockey". They need some help. They play five conference series on the road and then five at home. All of these games require flights, there are no bus trips for CHA games. They get on the bus, go to Grand Forks or Minneapolis and then fly out to Huntsville, AL (usually with a layover in Detroit or Memphis), Niagara, NY (Buffalo with a layover in Detroit), Pittsburgh, PA and Detroit, MI. This year, to maintain a 20 game conference schedule, they went to Huntsville twice while Wayne State will come to Bemidji twice. If you add some AHA teams (Eastern) to the CHA, those travel costs get that much greater. If BSU could get into the WCHA, the only flights needed would be Denver, Colorado College and UAA, everyone else would be a bus trip with Madison, WI, being the farthest at seven hours. Then, when you throw in non-conference series, the people of Bemidji want to see the teams that they see on TV, not Army, Merrimack, Canisius, etc. But outside of the home and home series with UMD and UND and the alternating year with Mankato, teams don't want to come to Bemidji and help them out. These three schools have been great to help Bemidji out, but it would also be nice to a few more home paydays to help the budget out.

With the CHA going down to four teams, the league also loses the autobid (the NCAA granted a waiver for the five team league). With no NCAA tournament berth to play for, it already makes difficult recruiting that much harder. They will have a very hard time getting D-I quality players, and that is when you will see a watering down of college hockey, not if the Beavers get into the WCHA. Right now Bemidji can dangle the "we have a one in five chance at getting into the NCAAs" to a kid, plus they can show them they get to play against some WCHA teams in their career. They have been able to recruit solid D-I hockey players and if they got into the WCHA, they would probably be able to recruit up another notch.

A new arena is definitely needed in Bemidji. That is the "must" in this whole equation. I know a lot of casual fans that will not come to a game at the Glas because of the seating (even if I gave them my spare tickets). They have told me that if Bemidji had an arena with individual seats, they would be there in an instant. But right now, they would rather watch it on KBSU TV from their couch than sit on bleachers.

Okay, I am done rambling........

[AZSIOUX]

You speak as if Michigan Tech has no history of championships and playoff appearances. Every time I hear people talk about the Huskies leaving the WCHA, it's because they feel "Tech sucks anways" and really don't know about MTU's heyday, particularly the mid-1970's.

You folks dreaming of Bemidji State and other schools joining the WCHA so you can wave good-bye to Minnesota and Wisconsin had better hope and pray UND gets a Big 10 Conference invitation. Recruits come to UND to play big-time hockey, not play Robert Morris, Alabama Huntsville, Bemidji State, and Minnesota State. I mean no disrespect to those schools, they're just not big-time.

tech has a hell of a histrory and a program overall. agree MM, i dont think we as fans have much say in if the wcha admits BSU and so forth for down the road or how this all plays out so whatever happens, happens MM.

[AZSIOUX]

I know there are a few Bemidji natives on here, so I don't mean to offend them if they had a soft spot for BSU, but when it's not the week that UND plays them, or if you're not talking about them in discussions about adding them to the WCHA, who even notices that they are in college hockey? Why not just let them go. If the CHA isn't good enough for them, obviously they're not serious about their own hockey program, they'd be basically mooching off the fact they are in a big name conference with big name schools. There isn't one thing about them that says WCHA except their location.

-They don't make a significant impact on the overall college hockey fanbase

-They don't bring in very much money in hockey

-Although they are gritty and can play good teams tough, they don't bring a great deal of talent to college hockey consistently

-No one even knows they're there really

+Allows players a chance at a college hockey career

I hate to see them leave college hockey too, but when you really think about, there isn't much we lose if they, and there is less we gain if they stay.

sorry therre buddy, you dont know enough about bemidji states hockey history to being saying some of this stuff. come on. nice bulliten points though... they have had multiple wcha wins over the last 4-5 years when in division 1. no one knows who they are? are you serious man? bemidji is a great college town and the best thing in town is bsu hockey. you dont know, but thats cool. ive been to many frozen 4's wearing a bemidji state hat or buddies wearing a jersey and we get stopped over and over..just a mild example but a good one of they are well known in the hockey world.

im not saying I want bsu in then a big 10 but its out of our control for whatever happens so a fun topic to see how people feel. bemidji state has a hell of a hockey history going back many years and since they have been division 1, they have upped their schedule by playing hockey east and many wcha teams over the years and getting wins as well.

[mksioux]

With 59 teams in Division I, there is definitely enough teams to fill-out six conferences. Even with Wayne State dropping hockey, There are 26 teams in western conferences, plus Air Force, which should be in a western conference. That's more than enough for three western conferences. The question is how you re-allign the schools to make that happen. No team is going to voluntarily leave their conference to go to the CHA, otherwise it would have happened by now. The problem with forced reallignment is there is no central authority to make the tough decisions (to my knowledge, the NCAA doesn't get involved in conference affiliation). Therefore, it won't happen. So the CHA will die and the CHA teams will either latch on to other conferences or will drop hockey.

[Big A HG]

sorry therre buddy, you dont know enough about bemidji states hockey history to being saying some of this stuff. come on. nice bulliten points though... they have had multiple wcha wins over the last 4-5 years when in division 1. no one knows who they are? are you serious man? bemidji is a great college town and the best thing in town is bsu hockey. you dont know, but thats cool. ive been to many frozen 4's wearing a bemidji state hat or buddies wearing a jersey and we get stopped over and over..just a mild example but a good one of they are well known in the hockey world.

im not saying I want bsu in then a big 10 but its out of our control for whatever happens so a fun topic to see how people feel. bemidji state has a hell of a hockey history going back many years and since they have been division 1, they have upped their schedule by playing hockey east and many wcha teams over the years and getting wins as well.

I knew I'd take heat for what I say. Outside of college hockey die hards, no one knows who BSU is...like it or not. I don't have to know enough about the history to know what the situation is right now.

To respond to the money issue regarding travel. This is a good point. And really, without a better revenue source, this will continue to be a problem. Without this, close travel needs would be the best option, which is what BSU wants. This seems like a hard option to swallow, but if college hockey schools that don't want to see them go could donate what they could to help the program out, without letting them join the conference, that's one option. Minnesota, UND, and Wisconsin are all huge revenue generators (UND being the smallest by far) from their sports programs, so if you could got help with travel needs from them, what's so bad about that? That way we are still helping out a neighbor without dismantling our own needs.

I'm sure Bemedji is a great little college town, but if BSU hockey is "the best thing in town" and their fans can't be any more supportive than they are...how much do they deserve being at the same level as nearly the entire WCHA? I can't say they really do.

They CAN beat WCHA level teams from time to time, including always seeming to put up a fight against UND in recent memory, but how come they can't even win their own conference (CHA) of not very good teams (only 5 of them).

I know that being in the WCHA would help bringing recruits into BSU, but in the long run it could hurt recruiting to other WCHA schools....there's too great of a chance of a catastrophic outcome to the WCHA in the process.

BSU has virtually nothing to add to the WCHA, only BSU to gain from everyone else. It's a selfish thought, but a valid one.

Like I said, I would much rather see BSU than Mankato, or even UAA, but 10 has got to be the limit for the conference.

So...

Before BSU got admitted, I think they HAVE to have a guarenteed new arena. Nothing really to argue about and already stated. I just don't see anything but a decrease in the quality of WCHA play.

Sorry, just my opinion. I still am open to hearing other people's opinions.

[Fetch]

UNO & Air Force should be considered too

TOO bad Fargo can't get it together (would their new arena be big enough) ?

[star2city]

NCAA approves program to allow Canadian schools in DII

In a landmark decision the NCAA has voted to allow Canadian universities to apply for membership and the University of British Columbia is set to do so.

The vote was 97% in favour (258 for, 9 against, 2 abstentions).

The move paves the way for Canadian schools like UBC to join the Division 2 of the National Collegiate Athletic Association within the next three years.

Schools must apply for membership by June 1st.

Both UBC and Simon Fraser University have already had discussions with NCAA conferences in the western United States and there is interest in both sides of the negotiations. The Great Northwest and Pacific West Conferences have been part of the discussions. ...

It is believed the University of Alberta and St Claire's College in Ontario are also interested in membership.

If both UBC and Alberta join DII, they should be eligible to move up their hockey programs to DI in 2011, when the NCAA DI moratorium ends. In 2011, expect them to ask for entry into the WCHA.

[franchise]

I don't see how BSU would bring down the quality of the WCHA when they are better than teams like Mankato and UAA without getting nearly the players through recruiting.(Dalton not included).

Saying they can't win the conference isn't valid as they've made the NCAA tourney a couple times recently and they currently lead the league at 8-2-2. Robert Morris and Niagra are actually pretty good teams too.

People outside of diehard fans do know BSU hockey. I ordered my new Dell a few months ago and when I started to spell out Bemidji for the guy, he stopped me and said "Oh, I know how to spell it. I've seen the Beavers hockey team play Denver in the tourney." The guy was from Texas.

A new arena is a must, but I do think the fan support would pick up a lot if it goes through. I like the Glas but it's crappy to most people and they can't drink there. Not many people wanna see Wayne St and Army either. It's a whole different crowed when UMD or UND are here.

[AZSIOUX]

I knew I'd take heat for what I say. Outside of college hockey die hards, no one knows who BSU is...like it or not. I don't have to know enough about the history to know what the situation is right now.

To respond to the money issue regarding travel. This is a good point. And really, without a better revenue source, this will continue to be a problem. Without this, close travel needs would be the best option, which is what BSU wants. This seems like a hard option to swallow, but if college hockey schools that don't want to see them go could donate what they could to help the program out, without letting them join the conference, that's one option. Minnesota, UND, and Wisconsin are all huge revenue generators (UND being the smallest by far) from their sports programs, so if you could got help with travel needs from them, what's so bad about that? That way we are still helping out a neighbor without dismantling our own needs.

I'm sure Bemedji is a great little college town, but if BSU hockey is "the best thing in town" and their fans can't be any more supportive than they are...how much do they deserve being at the same level as nearly the entire WCHA? I can't say they really do.

They CAN beat WCHA level teams from time to time, including always seeming to put up a fight against UND in recent memory, but how come they can't even win their own conference (CHA) of not very good teams (only 5 of them).

I know that being in the WCHA would help bringing recruits into BSU, but in the long run it could hurt recruiting to other WCHA schools....there's too great of a chance of a catastrophic outcome to the WCHA in the process.

BSU has virtually nothing to add to the WCHA, only BSU to gain from everyone else. It's a selfish thought, but a valid one.

Like I said, I would much rather see BSU than Mankato, or even UAA, but 10 has got to be the limit for the conference.

So...

Before BSU got admitted, I think they HAVE to have a guarenteed new arena. Nothing really to argue about and already stated. I just don't see anything but a decrease in the quality of WCHA play.

Sorry, just my opinion. I still am open to hearing other people's opinions.

well since you or i dont have a say in if they come or dont come to the wcha then oh well...nice rant

you might want to check with many non die hard college hockey fans as there are many people out there that dont even know college hockey exists if you wana go that route. of course die hards know bsu exist but also do regular college hockey fans. you can say whatever my man and thats cool but i will defend bemidji til i die in order to keep beaver hockey as that only floods down to youth hockey and so forth in the long run. not a big town at all population wise but a hard working one for sure and i hope they can make this work for the bsu hockey team and the city

[siouxnami]

I don't see how BSU would bring down the quality of the WCHA when they are better than teams like Mankato and UAA without getting nearly the players through recruiting.(Dalton not included).

Mankato and UAA bring down the level of competition in the WCHA...

[Millsy]

From Area Voices Blog Fee Throws:

------------------------------------

WCHA to help Beavers

Bruce McLeod, Western Collegiate Hockey Association commissioner, told me Sunday night that the league and Bemidji State have an agreement in place that will help the Beavers with their future men's hockey scheduling.

Bemidji State's request to the league at the NCAA Convention in Nashville on Sunday is because College Hockey America is shrinking. If nothing changes, it will have only four teams next season -- Bemidij State, Alabama-Huntsville, Niagara and Robert Morris.

The WCHA was reportedly considering a four-year unbalanced schedule that would ensure Bemidji State had 12 games vs. WCHA teams each season, six home, six away. But a particular number of games might not be in the agreement. A source also said BSU was told it needs to get a new arena built if the alliance is going to work.

"We do have an agreement, but we're just kind of working out the final details," McLeod said in a telephone interview Sunday night.

The 10-team WCHA has had a moratorium on expansion since Minnesota State Mankato was admitted in 1996-97.

Jon Quistgaard, BSU president, said a statement will be released Monday.

"I think it was a positive meeting," Quistgaard said in a telephone interview. "We really appreciated the opportunity to be able to talk about our situation and what our goals are and our vision. ... I think we all came away from the meting better informed."

---------------------------------------

[MafiaMan]

I don't see how BSU would bring down the quality of the WCHA when they are better than teams like Mankato and UAA without getting nearly the players through recruiting.(Dalton not included).

Boise State managed to beat Oklahoma in last year's Fiesta Bowl, too, but I don't hear teams from the big XII saying that they should be invited to join the conference.

What are you basing this "they are better than teams like Mankato and UAA" on?

[SportsDoc]

Take a look back ...

... It's 1970, and the Sioux are playing hockey in an unheated airplane hanger-like Winter Sports Bldg. No plexiglass, just chicken wire. Capacity around 2,000. Jump to 1973 and the Sioux are in the brand new (original) Engelstad Arena. Seating for 6,200. How are we going to fill those extra 4,200 seats? It will never happen. It did. Now jump to 2001 and the Sioux move to the current 11,600 seat Englestad Arena. State of the art, all the amenities for players, coaches and fans. How will they ever get 11,600 people to watch hockey in Grand Forks? Last weekend, The Ralph was sold out for the 11th straight time.

I see a trend, and I see no reason Bemidji, on a smaller scale, could not do the same. We can't fear the future of college hockey, we must embrace it, and from our place of strength, help advance the sport. 59 going to be 58 D-I programs is not enough for the sport overall. We need to help be the catalyst for the sport to expand and grow, not the reason it stagnates because we want to protect "our" turf. Which, by the way really isn't our turf, anyway. Think big, and don't fear the worst case naysayers. As a whole, college hockey needs to find a way to make this all work out, and from strength, the WCHA needs to lead, not follow in this endeavor.

[MafiaMan]

Mankato and UAA bring down the level of competition in the WCHA...

And yet, stunningly enough, Mankato made a recent trip to the Final Five and Alaska-Anchorage managed to get there a while back too.

It's a good thing you guys have short memories or else you'd have kicked Colorado College out of the WCHA during the era before Don Lucia.

[siouxnami]

And yet, stunningly enough, Mankato made a recent trip to the Final Five and Alaska-Anchorage managed to get there a while back too.

It's a good thing you guys have short memories or else you'd have kicked Colorado College out of the WCHA during the era before Don Lucia.

Making the final 5, a good program does not make... Winning an NCAA title (CC and MTU), a good program does make. MSU, Bemidji, and UAA will NEVER win a DI title...

[MafiaMan]

Making the final 5, a good program does not make... Winning an NCAA title (CC and MTU), a good program does make. MSU, Bemidji, and UAA will NEVER win a DI title...

I never said it made those two schools good programs, I said they've been good enough to make a trip to the Final Five. Folks here on the board seem to want to look at two things to determine kicking out schools and accepting new schools to the WCHA:

#1) Bemidji almost beat Denver in the NCAA tournament, so therefore they are good.

#2) Mankato and Alaska-Anchorage suck, therefore they must leave.

I'm not drinkin' that Kool-Aid.

[sprig]

It's a good thing you guys have short memories or else you'd have kicked Colorado College out of the WCHA during the era before Don Lucia.

Too bad, the Sioux could be in second place

[The Whistler]

Mankato and UAA bring down the level of competition in the WCHA...

Not so much. In the strength of schedule comparisons 8 of the top 10 are WCHA teams. Michigan Tech is #12 and for some reason Minnesota State (Mankato) is #19. (That doesn't make sense does it?)

In fact what we have seen the last couple years is the polls are prefering the CCHA teams with their cupcake schedules. The good teams can run up great records against lesser teams.

The #1 Team in the PWR is Michigan (tied). They've played the 31st easiest schedule in the nation.