Swept again!

[siouxnami]

There is only one thing that can heal this thread. A little Pitino wisdom...

"All the negativity in this town sucks..."

"Jordan Parise Larry Bird is not walking through that door, fans. Matt Smaby Kevin McHale is not walking through that door, and Drew Stafford, Rastislav Spirko, & Travis Zajac are Robert Parish is not walking through that door. And if you expect them to walk through that door, they're going to be gray and old. What we are is young, exciting, hard-working, and we're going to improve. People don't realize that, and as soon as they realize those five three guys are not coming through that door, the better this town will be for all of us because there are young guys in that (locker) room playing their asses off."

[THETRIOUXPER]

I'm pretty sure they were on the team that you said underachieved.

He should change his name from buckysieve to backpedaler.

[buckysieve]

I'm pretty sure they were on the team that you said underachieved.

So I say the team underachieved and you equate that with saying the freshmen class underachieved. What kind of second grade logic is that? You're really reaching with that one. Any hockey fan who would say that the Sioux freshmen class underachieved last year would be dead wrong which is exactly why I never said it.

This discussion has run it's course, especially when you're literally making things up about what I've said.

[Walsh Hall]

Lee Goren, Jason Ulmer, Jay Panzer, Teeder Wynne, and Adam Calder.......five former Sioux players in the past 10 or so years, who would most likely qualify under your standards as part of a weak freshman class, yet were imperative in the winning of national titles (except for Wynne who was the team MVP his senior year). We can't have a Parise, Zajac, Bochenski, or Murray every single year. You've come to expect too much from 17 and 18 years old. Maturity is different in everyone and development into good college hockey players take time.

Goren was coming off a bout with mono with left him weak and without stamina, and it showed. Ulmer and Calder were more 3rd line guys that where excellent at doing the job that needed to be done. Jay Panzer was a good, not great college player that needed a supporting cast and maturity to develop. Teeder, one of my favorite ex-sioux, apparently got chewed out pretty good by Deano which got his act in rear. I'm baffled at why it's so awful to say that maybe the freshman class is a little short on top end talent. There is alot of time left to step up, but to this point they haven't shown any particular knick for putting the puck in the net. I see a bunch of players that look like they could develop into the Calder-Henderson-Armbrust type players, just no Oshie, Blake, Parise - type players. We need some of both to win

[Shawn-O]

Goren was coming off a bout with mono with left him weak and without stamina, and it showed. Ulmer and Calder were more 3rd line guys that where excellent at doing the job that needed to be done. Jay Panzer was a good, not great college player that needed a supporting cast and maturity to develop. Teeder, one of my favorite ex-sioux, apparently got chewed out pretty good by Deano which got his act in rear. I'm baffled at why it's so awful to say that maybe the freshman class is a little short on top end talent. There is alot of time left to step up, but to this point they haven't shown any particular knick for putting the puck in the net. I see a bunch of players that look like they could develop into the Calder-Henderson-Armbrust type players, just no Oshie, Blake, Parise - type players. We need some of both to win

I agree, and this is where guys like Kozek and Watkins (who have gotten a free pass on this thread) need to step up. Miller is outproducing them after spending basically the entire 2005-2006 season in a suit and tie on game nights. Something is wrong with that picture. That said, we still have over half of the league schedule to go, and there's still time for these guys to step up. Just thought some of the "love" needed to be spread to the sophs as well.

[Goon]

I agree, and this is where guys like Kozek and Watkins (who have gotten a free pass on this thread) need to step up. Miller is outproducing them after spending basically the entire 2005-2006 season in a suit and tie on game nights. Something is wrong with that picture. That said, we still have over half of the league schedule to go, and there's still time for these guys to step up. Just thought some of the "love" needed to be spread to the sophs as well.

I think maybe we jinxed Kozek when we said he was going to score 15-20 goals. Kozek has three to date.

The kid has a killer shot.

[PCM]

So I say the team underachieved and you equate that with saying the freshmen class underachieved.

Well, let's see. Last season, freshman made up half the defense and often half the forwards. So I unreasonably assumed that when you said the team underachieved, it included the freshman class because they composed the most significant portion of the team.

I apologize for my faulty logic in thinking that when you said...

If anything, UND underachieved during the regular season.

...you were excluding the freshman class. Of course I should have assumed that you meant everyone except the freshmen. Any second grader would have picked up on that logic.

And I wish you wouldn't deliberately misrespesent what you wrote by including the word "maybe" because anyone who can read will see that you never said "maybe."

[PCM]

I agree, and this is where guys like Kozek and Watkins (who have gotten a free pass on this thread) need to step up.

Too true. I was also expecting to see Fabian and Kaip chip in a little more, too.

That said, we still have over half of the league schedule to go, and there's still time for these guys to step up. Just thought some of the "love" needed to be spread to the sophs as well.

Yes, there is still time. And I hope that as with the past two seasons, the Sioux have hit bottom and will begin to rebound. If Wisconsin can rebound from a six-game losing streak, there's no reason UND can't turn things around. This coming weekend would be a good time to get it started.

[Fetch]

[jk]

Watkins

2005-06 5-4-9 in 46 games

2006-07 5-3-8 in 16 games

Looks like a sophomore slump. He scored 1 more point last year.

[Shawn-O]

Watkins

2005-06 5-4-9 in 46 games

2006-07 5-3-8 in 16 games

Looks like a sophomore slump. He scored 1 more point last year.

2004-05 Vernon Vipers BCHL 60 36 38 74 53

2005-06 U.of North Dakota NCAA 45 5 3 8 45

Or perhaps the bar was just set very low last year.

[dagies]

Shawn-O, I don't know how well you can compare the 2. Watkins was not one of the top 2-3 scorers in the BCHL if I remember, but down around 10 or 15. Hanging out with the more pedestrian of the decent scorers. Maybe it's just my perception but it seems to me unless guys are top flight scorers in juniors they usually don't tear it up at this level.

[jk]

2004-05 Vernon Vipers BCHL 60 36 38 74 53

2005-06 U.of North Dakota NCAA 45 5 3 8 45

Or perhaps the bar was just set very low last year.

OK now this just drives me crazy. Watkins is getting outproduced by Miller, and that's somehow a problem because Miller didn't play much last year. Miller didn't play much because he was coming off shoulder surgery and wasn't able to work out sufficiently in the summer preceding his freshman year. Now we're starting to see what he's capable of. Strength is still an issue for him, as he gets bounced along the boards quite a bit, but it is a real treat watching him carry the puck up the ice with a little room and create.

How Miller rounding into form is somehow an indictment of Watkins escapes me. Watkins' production has increased nicely this year, and, no, the bar for Watkins wasn't set low last year. Those were decent numbers for a true freshman who is not in the all-universe category like a few others have been. As for how they compare to the BCHL, his BCHL numbers were solid, but were not spectacular by any means (they were about half of what Travis Zajac put up). One would not typically expect a player with Watkins' BCHL resume to come in and be an offensive star.

Here's the kicker though. Anyone watching the games can see how good a player Watkins is, even when he's not on the scoreboard. I love what Miller is doing offensively, but there are a ton of other hockey things that Watkins does better - he wins races, he wins battles. In two years, when Toews and Oshie are rightfully being lauded in the former players thread, and when Duncan and Miller may be leading the team in scoring, Watkins will be the heart and soul of the team.

[Lives-to-play-hockey-06]

I think maybe we jinxed Kozek when we said he was going to score 15-20 goals. Kozek has three to date.

The kid has a killer shot.

20 goals? No one thought that and if they did they are a complete moron.

Shawn-O you need to check my low respect list.

[Lives-to-play-hockey-06]

Don't forget Bryan Lundbohm. Two goals as a freshman, 22 as a sophomore and 32 as a junior.

Lundbohm was a great player and a great guy so was his brother.

[Lives-to-play-hockey-06]

First thing we have to do is convince Hak to have Phil step asside so Grieco can get a shot. Second its possible, Grieco is about the same age as Schweitzer when he made his run.

I think he has already played six games, I would call that a "shot"

[AZSIOUX]

I think he has already played six games, I would call that a "shot"

neither have been great or even good at times.. bottom line

[Shawn-O]

20 goals? No one thought that and if they did they are a complete moron.

Shawn-O you need to check my low respect list.

Second leading scorer in the BCHL two years ago, and a second round pick? I don't think 15-20 is that far off the mark.

[Shawn-O]

OK now this just drives me crazy. Watkins is getting outproduced by Miller, and that's somehow a problem because Miller didn't play much last year. Miller didn't play much because he was coming off shoulder surgery and wasn't able to work out sufficiently in the summer preceding his freshman year. Now we're starting to see what he's capable of. Strength is still an issue for him, as he gets bounced along the boards quite a bit, but it is a real treat watching him carry the puck up the ice with a little room and create.

How Miller rounding into form is somehow an indictment of Watkins escapes me. Watkins' production has increased nicely this year, and, no, the bar for Watkins wasn't set low last year. Those were decent numbers for a true freshman who is not in the all-universe category like a few others have been. As for how they compare to the BCHL, his BCHL numbers were solid, but were not spectacular by any means (they were about half of what Travis Zajac put up). One would not typically expect a player with Watkins' BCHL resume to come in and be an offensive star.

Here's the kicker though. Anyone watching the games can see how good a player Watkins is, even when he's not on the scoreboard. I love what Miller is doing offensively, but there are a ton of other hockey things that Watkins does better - he wins races, he wins battles. In two years, when Toews and Oshie are rightfully being lauded in the former players thread, and when Duncan and Miller may be leading the team in scoring, Watkins will be the heart and soul of the team.

OK, you win. Miller has been a pleasant surprise (given the numbers in Green Bay coming in) and Kozek has been a bigger bust than Watkins. It's December, let's see how the next three months pan out.

[Lives-to-play-hockey-06]

Second leading scorer in the BCHL two years ago, and a second round pick? I don't think 15-20 is that far off the mark.

I would normally agree with that, but I've seen him skate. I would have expected him to fall in behind genoway and zajac on the goal chart. Along with porter, oshie, toews and duncan.

[Goon]

20 goals? No one thought that and if they did they are a complete moron.

? Why should Kozek and Watkins be able to score 15-20 goals?

[Goon]

I would normally agree with that, but I've seen him skate. I would have expected him to fall in behind genoway and zajac on the goal chart. Along with porter, oshie, toews and duncan.

What do you think your a hockey scout now?

[Goon]

I think he has already played six games, I would call that a "shot"

Now we are deciding for the coaching staff from the stands who has had a shot. You must not have listened to the coaches show? I am beginning to wonder if your a Sioux fan or just here to stir people up and get into arguments?

[siouxforeverbaby]

I would normally agree with that, but I've seen him skate. I would have expected him to fall in behind genoway and zajac on the goal chart. Along with porter, oshie, toews and duncan.

So have most of us, it is called going to the games.

And I believe that 15-20 was before the season, going off of what we saw last year as well. Anyone can score that many goals, if they go in. No offense, but I think Hak and NHL scouts might know a bit more than you.

[Goon]

So have most of us, it is called going to the games.

And I believe that 15-20 was before the season, going off of what we saw last year as well. Anyone can score that many goals, if they go in. No offense, but I think Hak and NHL scouts might know a bit more than you.

Apparently I guess we can't see the hidden talent or flaws in these players (Watkins and Kozek) game that Lives is seeing. Whatever, floats his boat. I would think Hak and NHL scouts would know more than most of us arm chair coaches.