Dartmouth joins the anti-Sioux crusade

[PCM]

A letter from Josie Harper, Dartmouth's director of athletics and recreation, is being discussed in this thread, but I thought the subject deserved a thread of its own given that we'll be hearing more about the issue by the time the Sioux play Darthmouth Dec. 29.

Columnist Charles Mitchell strikes back at Dartmouth about this open letter from the school's Native American Council:

Thanksgiving in the Academy

This isn

[ScottM]

And Dartmouth has how many programs aimed at Native Americans?

/cue theme from "Jeopardy"

What is "One", Alex?

In the 30 years that have passed since former President Kemeny's historical address, Dartmouth's commitment to Indian education has remained strong. In this brief time, over 500 Native Americans from over 120 different tribes have attended Dartmouth, more than at all the other Ivy League institutions combined.

[emphasis added]

That's about 17/year. Although they claim to have 157 in "the program" currently ... whatever that means.

Linky

[siouxguyinstpaul]

Reading Josie's letter almost made me sick it was so syrupie. Who do they think they are kidding?

[HockeyMom]

People have too much time on their hands.

[Goon]

So what are they going to say when we whoop their butts in hockey?

[HockeyMom]

So what are they going to say when we whoop their butts in hockey?

"Man, I wish we could be more like those Fighting Sioux from North Dakota!"

[dagies]

I propose that Dartmouth change their nickname to "the Custers". Maybe that would make their Native American friends feel better.

[PCM]

It is this type of thinking that keeps me fighting for the Fighting Sioux:

As Native people, the right to decide what offends us belongs to us and us alone. It is arrogant for non-Native people to presume that they somehow have this right.

[CVCL]

It is this type of thinking that keeps me fighting for the Fighting Sioux:

It's this type of laundry list, 6 concrete instances of racism directly affecting the students/school, and the fact that they are counted as happening within two months that keeps me wondering this;

Can a list like this be generated for UND for the last 30 years? The NCAA, Civil Rights Council and even the 'Bridges' site haven't been able to do that.

[ScottM]

It is this type of thinking that keeps me fighting for the Fighting Sioux:

Damn those "hang around the fort" Indians!!!!

[LeftyZL]

It is this type of thinking that keeps me fighting for the Fighting Sioux:

That webpage is so far out there, it's almost hard to comprehend what they are fighting for or trying to prove. Their 5 incidences that are from that link relate directly to an individual's actions or some off-campus news publication. It reminds me eerily of UND, since I'm sure there are people on UND's campus that are in fact racist, but to label an entire university racist because of the acts of a few is proposterious. I will never understand that.

Besides the quote PCM used, the other one I found interesting under the section titled "Fundamental Truths" was:

"People or institutions that objectify Native Americans with full knowledge that they are causing offense are, by definition, committing racist attacks."

So, by that "Fundamental Truth", the supporters of the University of North Dakota that walk around displaying the Sioux name or the Sioux logo on their clothing/hats/etc., are in fact committing racist attacks on Native Americans. Couldn't that be considered a "hate crime"? Or am I incorrect? Arrest me now if that is the case.

[dagies]

I guess I never thought that "offense" is a rational emotion. What I mean is, I never thought I needed to decide if something was offensive or not. Based on my ethics and beliefs, I know if something is offensive or not. I don't need to make a decision or not.

If I had to think about it, and decide to be offended, then I guess it really wasn't that big of a deal. Oh, and no one has a right to be offended. You either are, or you are not.

According to the American Heritage dictionary, here is the definition of "offend":

To cause displeasure, anger, resentment, or wounded feelings in.

Some synonyms

insult, affront, outrage

These aren't things you sit and ponder, and come to a conclusion. You are, or you are not. And that's one reason I struggle with the idea that the Fighting Sioux nickname is really that big of a deal. If someone has to sit and ponder whether or not this really matters to them, I guess it wasn't really that big of a deal. And if it was, then the reaction should have been pretty much immediate.

[PCM]

It is wrong for one race of people to appropriate cultures and customs of another race of people.

Does this apply equally to all races or is it just another one of those rights invented out of thin air? Because I'd hate to think what would happen if non-Indians demanded that Indians cease and desist in the appropriation of their cultures and customs. And what if that same principle was applied to technology and medicine, too?

Objectification is about power. The commodification of Native people, whether it

[Basil]

A quote from deadspin.com (scroll past the first few stories) - "...it seems a bit self- flagellating to flog your own school because you're playing the team in hockey..." I agree.

[Chewey]

These people are loons for sure. It would make for an interesting psychological study to determine how they acquire that mindset.

[Tommiejo]

Leave it to those sorry you know what's from the Northeastern part of the country & they want to know why we southerns call them YANKEES. Because they are a bunch of sorry you know what YANKESS who don't know there you know what from a hole in the ground. HockeyMom is right about one thing & I agree with her on this one. "PEOPLE HAVE TOO MUCH TIME ON THEIR HANDS." Hey HockeyMom I think I have that right if I don't please forgive me besides i'm not perfect. GO GATORS CHOMP ON THOSE DAMN SEMINOLES.

SIOUX FAN SINCE 1973.

[Let'sGoHawks!]

If you'd like to send a tasteful email to her, feel free

Joann.Harper@Dartmouth.edu

[farce poobah]

Thanks to the leadership at Dartmouth, we get a front row seat to witness the heights of hypocrisy.

Dartmouth has adopted the Roy Saigo strategy - when there's racism in your own house, blame UND.

The various discriminatory events at St Cloud have been pretty well documented, so I won't rehash that here. And we're all familiar with Saigo's strategy.

Dartmouth, I am less familiar with. But there is a fair bit of fuss inside the college that created complaints from Native Americans inside the college.

[EDIT - additional info] If this stuff is true, then its Dartmouth that really has the problem.

http://www.thedartmouth.com/article.php?aid=2006111702020

"During Homecoming, Indian t-shirts were sold depicting a Holy Cross Crusader performing oral sex on the image of the Indian. On Columbus Day, two students disrupted a Native American drum ceremony, running into the circle and taunting the participating students (if you can't picture this, imagine someone screaming obscenities in the middle of a church service). The "cowboy and Indian"-themed crew formal was rightly called out as inappropriate."

In fact, the president of the college wrote a companion letter in the Dartmouth.

http://www.thedartmouth.com/article.php?aid=2006112101060

I don't have all the facts, and cannot judge whether what happened at Hanover was inappropriate or not.

But I have a hard time picturing a UND athletic team doing a "Cowboys and Indians" event. If that's what is really going on at Dartmouth, then their problem is internal, not external.

The other hypocrisy I see is the apparent selective criticism of UND. In fact, the Dartmouth women's basketball team played none other than the Central Michigan Chippewas last week. Where's the criticism of Central Michigan? I leave it to your imagination ...

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncw/clubhouse?teamId=2117

=============================

What should UND do?

I suggest that when UND hockey plays there in December, that UND ask the Dartmouth public address announcer to read the same announcement that is read at UND home hockey games. Most of us know this by heart: "UND adopted the Fighting Sioux nickname in the 1930's to honor ..."

[coach daddy]

Thanks to the leadership at Dartmouth, we get a front row seat to witness the heights of hypocrisy.

Dartmouth has adopted the Roy Saigo strategy - when there's racism in your own house, blame UND.

The various discriminatory events at St Cloud have been pretty well documented, so I won't rehash that here. And we're all familiar with Saigo's strategy.

Dartmouth, I am less familiar with. But there is a fair bit of fuss inside the college that created complaints from Native Americans inside the college.

In fact, the president of the college wrote a companion letter in the Dartmouth.

http://www.thedartmouth.com/article.php?aid=2006112101060

I don't have all the facts, and cannot judge whether what happened at Hanover was inappropriate or not.

But I have a hard time picturing a UND athletic team doing a "Cowboys and Indians" event. If that's what is really going on at Dartmouth, then their problem is internal, not external.

The other hypocrisy I see is the apparent selective criticism of UND. In fact, the Dartmouth women's basketball team played none other than the Central Michigan Chippewas last week. Where's the criticism of Central Michigan? I leave it to your imagination ...

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncw/clubhouse?teamId=2117

=============================

What should UND do?

I suggest that when UND hockey plays there in December, that UND ask the Dartmouth public address announcer to read the same announcement that is read at UND home hockey games. Most of us know this by heart: "UND adopted the Fighting Sioux nickname in the 1930's to honor ..."

Well said. The people of Dartmouth should be embarrassed for own school and clean their own yard first. A bunch of "think-they-know-everything ivy league folks". If you don't know what you're talking about, Shut the hell up.

[Riverman]

What should UND do?

I suggest that when UND hockey plays there in December, that UND ask the Dartmouth public address announcer to read the same announcement that is read at UND home hockey games. Most of us know this by heart: "UND adopted the Fighting Sioux nickname in the 1930's to honor ..."

I think you have something there!! A very good idea!!

[farce poobah]

I think you have something there!! A very good idea!!

Thank you. (Even a blind pig will find a cob of corn every now and then.)

The more I think about it, it would be a good idea at all road games. (But especially Dartmouth.)

[redwing77]

What I think Buning should do is to call the Dartmouth AD and say:

"Since you are so afraid of all the pain we're going to cause when our hockey team comes to town, how about you save them the trouble and just forfeit to us? That way we won't be seen as hostile and abusive to you and those Native Americans we are allegedly going to 'pain' and we will avoid being hostile and abusive on the scoreboard as well!"

Then, if the Dartmouth AD refuses, Buning can release a press release stating that Dartmouth's intention is to bring us to whereverthehellthey'refrom (I don't care, really... Vermont or New Hampshire I think), that UND offerred to cancel the trip on condition Dartmouth forfeits to the Sioux, and that all pain brought by the tourney is now on the shoulders of the Dartmouth AD.

[dagies]

Thanks to the leadership at Dartmouth, we get a front row seat to witness the heights of hypocrisy.

Dartmouth has adopted the Roy Saigo strategy - when there's racism in your own house, blame UND.

The various discriminatory events at St Cloud have been pretty well documented, so I won't rehash that here. And we're all familiar with Saigo's strategy.

Dartmouth, I am less familiar with. But there is a fair bit of fuss inside the college that created complaints from Native Americans inside the college.

[EDIT - additional info] If this stuff is true, then its Dartmouth that really has the problem.

http://www.thedartmouth.com/article.php?aid=2006111702020

"During Homecoming, Indian t-shirts were sold depicting a Holy Cross Crusader performing oral sex on the image of the Indian. On Columbus Day, two students disrupted a Native American drum ceremony, running into the circle and taunting the participating students (if you can't picture this, imagine someone screaming obscenities in the middle of a church service). The "cowboy and Indian"-themed crew formal was rightly called out as inappropriate."

In fact, the president of the college wrote a companion letter in the Dartmouth.

http://www.thedartmouth.com/article.php?aid=2006112101060

I don't have all the facts, and cannot judge whether what happened at Hanover was inappropriate or not.

But I have a hard time picturing a UND athletic team doing a "Cowboys and Indians" event. If that's what is really going on at Dartmouth, then their problem is internal, not external.

The other hypocrisy I see is the apparent selective criticism of UND. In fact, the Dartmouth women's basketball team played none other than the Central Michigan Chippewas last week. Where's the criticism of Central Michigan? I leave it to your imagination ...

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncw/clubhouse?teamId=2117

=============================

What should UND do?

I suggest that when UND hockey plays there in December, that UND ask the Dartmouth public address announcer to read the same announcement that is read at UND home hockey games. Most of us know this by heart: "UND adopted the Fighting Sioux nickname in the 1930's to honor ..."

I alway stop to read a post by farce poobah, for good reason....

[yekcoh]

The Dartmouth - Debating Indian Mascots - Opinion Letter from August 2005

Perhaps each university should investigate within its campus and decide whether a mascot change needs to be made based on its own situation. However, without considering each school specifically, the NCAA foolishly neglects the history and motivation behind each college choosing its American-Indian mascot.

Just visit The Dartmouth and do a search for "Indians". Pretty interesting stuff going on at that place.

A New Angle on the Mascot

Past, present, future -- there can be no other representation, symbol or nickname for Dartmouth than the "Indians." But, let Dartmouth reclaim the Dartmouth Indian in a new light, as a proud symbol, intrinsically linked with everything Dartmouth must always strive to be.

[bigmrg74]

What I think Buning should do is to call the Dartmouth AD and say:

"Since you are so afraid of all the pain we're going to cause when our hockey team comes to town, how about you save them the trouble and just forfeit to us? That way we won't be seen as hostile and abusive to you and those Native Americans we are allegedly going to 'pain' and we will avoid being hostile and abusive on the scoreboard as well!"

Then, if the Dartmouth AD refuses, Buning can release a press release stating that Dartmouth's intention is to bring us to whereverthehellthey'refrom (I don't care, really... Vermont or New Hampshire I think), that UND offerred to cancel the trip on condition Dartmouth forfeits to the Sioux, and that all pain brought by the tourney is now on the shoulders of the Dartmouth AD.

Brilliant!!