2006-2007 ND High School Hockey

[BringDeanBack]

As i said before, dont bash someone unless you know the circumstance. Several Central players have said that Bina was in fact a total prick to Alex in particular. He made it as if he was never doing anything good enough, fast enough, hard enough. I know that is a part of coaching, pushing the players to go harder but when you single out a KID like that, you deserve no respect.

To quote UNDhockey22, "that is life". There will always be people expecting more and quitting is not always an option.

[UNDhockey22]

To quote UNDhockey22, "that is life". There will always be people expecting more and quitting is not always an option.

My quote "that is life" reffered to things you cannot control and how unfair those things can be. I think that was fairly apparent, but you interpreted it how you felt it was best support your own opinions. If there is a negative situation that you can control anyone in the right mind would do their best to change the situation. To be frank, the only person Alex Simonson needs to please is himself. If the situation was so negative that it affected his play and enjoyment of the game I'm not about to criticize the kid for getting out of a bad situation. Obviously, quitting in many cases is seen as a cope out. The last resort. But when I think of quitting in a negative way it is when someone is unsuccessful at first attempt of something and decides to give up on ones self and move on. I do not think many of us know how Alex Simonson was treated, or how that affected the enjoyment of the game. Because when all is said and done, isn't that what high school hockey is about? These kids are not paid, and get to play in their hometown with all of there buddies. Right now, it's about playing for the love of the game (as it always should be, in my mind).

[Wilbur]

Minot 4 Dickinson 0

Didn't go to the game, but from the sound of it, Minot is starting to play really well in their defensive end.

[Siouxmama]

Fargo South 5

Devils Lake 2

Fargo goalie faced 21 shots and DL's 42

[SportsDoc]

Unless you know the situation I'd avoid ripping into Simonson. Truth be told, high school coachs are supposed to be a players friend. This is not college hockey or pro hockey or Herb Brooks 1980 Olympic team (where you probably got the idea to say such a thing, "I will be your coach, I won't be your friend."). At every youth level the players are frequently told by their coachs that if they ever need anything or anyone to talk to about problems they are having in life, school, or with their girlfriend that they can talk to their coach.

I could not disagree more. High School coaches are to be respected and trusted, but are not friends to their players (at least not while they are still players). As a coach, at this level, becoming the players friend could have devastating consequences. Friends, while trust and respect are good attributes to have, must also on some level be peers. Coaches, by their very nature, are not peers.

For instance, discipline: coaches need to, and in fact are expected to, handle player and team discipline. Friends do not. Friends may advise and be a sounding board or even suggest what to do. But they do not handle the discipline. Coaches, teachers and parents do, and while they are doing so they are not friends in that sense, though they may be liked. When parents, coaches and teachers become HS students friends, bad things happen.

[Siouxhockey78]

GPR 6 North 2 is my prediction for tonight...

[UNDhockey22]

I could not disagree more. High School coaches are to be respected and trusted, but are not friends to their players (at least not while they are still players). As a coach, at this level, becoming the players friend could have devastating consequences. Friends, while trust and respect are good attributes to have, must also on some level be peers. Coaches, by their very nature, are not peers.

For instance, discipline: coaches need to, and in fact are expected to, handle player and team discipline. Friends do not. Friends may advise and be a sounding board or even suggest what to do. But they do not handle the discipline. Coaches, teachers and parents do, and while they are doing so they are not friends in that sense, though they may be liked. When parents, coaches and teachers become HS students friends, bad things happen.

I have my level 4 coaching certification. I know what is expected of coach's at youth and high school levels. From my level 3 three coaching manual (you need a level three to coach high school) it says- "Be a good friend. Sometimes players do not know how to be friends with coach's or even adults. As their friend, they look for someone to share expierances with, someone to laugh with, someone to work with, someone to trust, someone to turn to, and someone who cares." Obviously, coach's will not be friends in the sense to where you will call them and ask the to come over and play playstation. However, like you would call a friend when you are having trouble at home, coach's are supposed to provide a similar outlet. At the high school level a good coach can relate to the player on various levels. Respect is a very important part of being an effective coach. However, if you are not available for a kid when he needs an outlet, you will lose that respect and the odds of maintaining discipline throughout the team will decrease greatly. The object of coaching at the high school level is not only to win. It is to win, but not to do so at the cost of a students emotional and physical well being. Such practices as neglecting the feelings and problems of a high school student will only further the distance between a coach and his players, which will in turn reduce the chance the players will respond to the coaches systems, desires, motivational speeches and so forth. So in that respect, without maintaining a relationship with your players at a personal level, the opportunity of success in your program reduces greatly.

I am curious what the devastating consequences may be of being a friend of a player and coach. Because the object is not to only be a friend, or to only be a coach. So in that respect, being a friend to the player should not affect the ability to coach the player because you are relating to him on more than one level.

[ND Pride]

I have my level 4 coaching certification. I know what is expected of coach's at youth and high school levels. From my level 3 three coaching manual (you need a level three to coach high school) it says- "Be a good friend. Sometimes players do not know how to be friends with coach's or even adults. As their friend, they look for someone to share expierances with, someone to laugh with, someone to work with, someone to trust, someone to turn to, and someone who cares." Obviously, coach's will not be friends in the sense to where you will call them and ask the to come over and play playstation. However, like you would call a friend when you are having trouble at home, coach's are supposed to provide a similar outlet. At the high school level a good coach can relate to the player on various levels. Respect is a very important part of being an effective coach. However, if you are not available for a kid when he needs an outlet, you will lose that respect and the odds of maintaining discipline throughout the team will decrease greatly. The object of coaching at the high school level is not only to win. It is to win, but not to do so at the cost of a students emotional and physical well being. Such practices as neglecting the feelings and problems of a high school student will only further the distance between a coach and his players, which will in turn reduce the chance the players will respond to the coaches systems, desires, motivational speeches and so forth. So in that respect, without maintaining a relationship with your players at a personal level, the opportunity of success in your program reduces greatly.

I am curious what the devastating consequences may be of being a friend of a player and coach. Because the object is not to only be a friend, or to only be a coach. So in that respect, being a friend to the player should not affect the ability to coach the player because you are relating to him on more than one level.

Very well stated. I think part of the problem in the discussion revolves around different conceptions of what it means to be a "friend". You have made some important distinctions in your post that help to clarify the nature of "friendship" between adult coaches and players. Coaches can be/should be approachable and friendly at the youth and high school level - however, this friendliness does not extend to the activities that players would have with age peers.

I think some of the apparent disagreement stems from issues of semantics. I think if we specified the scope of topics and activities that would constitute "friendship" between players and coaches we would most likely be in agreement on most, if not all, of the dimensions.

[BringDeanBack]

I have my level 4 coaching certification. I know what is expected of coach's at youth and high school levels. From my level 3 three coaching manual (you need a level three to coach high school) it says- "Be a good friend. Sometimes players do not know how to be friends with coach's or even adults. As their friend, they look for someone to share expierances with, someone to laugh with, someone to work with, someone to trust, someone to turn to, and someone who cares." Obviously, coach's will not be friends in the sense to where you will call them and ask the to come over and play playstation. However, like you would call a friend when you are having trouble at home, coach's are supposed to provide a similar outlet. At the high school level a good coach can relate to the player on various levels. Respect is a very important part of being an effective coach. However, if you are not available for a kid when he needs an outlet, you will lose that respect and the odds of maintaining discipline throughout the team will decrease greatly. The object of coaching at the high school level is not only to win. It is to win, but not to do so at the cost of a students emotional and physical well being. Such practices as neglecting the feelings and problems of a high school student will only further the distance between a coach and his players, which will in turn reduce the chance the players will respond to the coaches systems, desires, motivational speeches and so forth. So in that respect, without maintaining a relationship with your players at a personal level, the opportunity of success in your program reduces greatly.

I am curious what the devastating consequences may be of being a friend of a player and coach. Because the object is not to only be a friend, or to only be a coach. So in that respect, being a friend to the player should not affect the ability to coach the player because you are relating to him on more than one level.

Once again, your words hint at Bina not being there for his player. Bina not being a good enough friend or outlet for his player. If Bina is such as a harda** how come more players haven't quit? With the way their season is going this year, you would think that it would happen. Bina didn't get a whole lot of playing time going through high school because he was stuck behind Moreland, yet he did not quit, he stuck it out. Perhaps kids are just different these days as being a quitter doesn't seem to have the stigma that it once did.

[Wilbur]

Scores that I heard from tonight:

Minot 6 Jamestown 3.....Was this game played in Jamestown? Are they still having ice difficulties???

Also heard Bottineau over Dickinson. Its nice to see Bottineau winning some games again. The numbers definately make a difference.

[ND Pride]

Does anyone else have scores from Saturday?

[He Who Shoots Top Shelf]

I saw a few on the tv, no real surprises:

Devils Lake 6 Wahpeton 1

Red River 9 West Fargo 1

Moorhead 3 Wayzata 0

I am still waiting for a North-Grafton update.

[UofMGrad]

I saw a few on the tv, no real surprises:

Devils Lake 6 Wahpeton 1

Red River 9 West Fargo 1

Moorhead 3 Wayzata 0

I am still waiting for a North-Grafton update.

Grafton 8 North 2

[junior24]

Once again, your words hint at Bina not being there for his player. Bina not being a good enough friend or outlet for his player. If Bina is such as a harda** how come more players haven't quit? With the way their season is going this year, you would think that it would happen. Bina didn't get a whole lot of playing time going through high school because he was stuck behind Moreland, yet he did not quit, he stuck it out. Perhaps kids are just different these days as being a quitter doesn't seem to have the stigma that it once did.

BringDeanBack, can you find where someone said Bina is a hard ass to all of his players? The only thing i recall being said is what I previously stated. Bina was particularly hard on Alex, and not the rest of his team. Nothing was ever good enough for him form alex, individually picking someone out and constantly yelling and screaming at them is humiliating.

[UNDhockey22]

Once again, your words hint at Bina not being there for his player. Bina not being a good enough friend or outlet for his player. If Bina is such as a harda** how come more players haven't quit? With the way their season is going this year, you would think that it would happen. Bina didn't get a whole lot of playing time going through high school because he was stuck behind Moreland, yet he did not quit, he stuck it out. Perhaps kids are just different these days as being a quitter doesn't seem to have the stigma that it once did.

I am in no way, shape, or form trying to convey the message that Bina is a poor coach. My previous post was in reply to a post that coach's should not be friend to their players. It is very possible however, that Alex Simonson felt he was being mistreated and could no longer handle the situation. Was Coach Bina treating Alex poorly? I don't know. And many of us do not. My intentions are to simply provide logical reasons as to why Simonson chose to quit the team in the attempt to take some of the heat off his back that many people are putting on him on this message board.

Maybe you can clarify something for you in my post. You make the point that hardly any players quit from centrals team (true statement), and that you would think more players would with the rough season central is having, but then you go on to say that being a quitter these days does not hold the stigma that it once did (implying that more kids are quitting). Does that make sense?

[andtheHomeoftheSIOUX!!]

Scores that I heard from tonight:

Minot 6 Jamestown 3.....Was this game played in Jamestown? Are they still having ice difficulties???

Also heard Bottineau over Dickinson. Its nice to see Bottineau winning some games again. The numbers definately make a difference.

The game was in Jamestown. Apparently they got the ice fixed.

Jamestown has horrible refs. They ran the two man system for the JV game. They were bad, bad refs. In the Varsity game they were a little bit better and at least there were three of them but they still were not very good. The reffing was terrible.

[Wilbur]

The game was in Jamestown. Apparently they got the ice fixed.

Jamestown has horrible refs. They ran the two man system for the JV game. They were bad, bad refs. In the Varsity game they were a little bit better and at least there were three of them but they still were not very good. The reffing was terrible.

Well, if you feel that way then hats off to Minot for working through tough officiating to get a road win. Its getting to a point in the season where region games (especially on the road) are huge for postseason standing, good teams find ways to win when the chips are stacked against them, and getting the win on the road should be a confidence booster for the magi.

I guess the paper said that the penalties were 8 for Minot and 7 for Jamestown. I don't know if it was that bad....

[andtheHomeoftheSIOUX!!]

Well, if you feel that way then hats off to Minot for working through tough officiating to get a road win. Its getting to a point in the season where region games (especially on the road) are huge for postseason standing, good teams find ways to win when the chips are stacked against them, and getting the win on the road should be a confidence booster for the magi.

I guess the paper said that the penalties were 8 for Minot and 7 for Jamestown. I don't know if it was that bad....

Yes it was a big road win for the team. It should help them carry some momentum into the West Region turnament. They are realy clicking on all cylinders right now. Also, they are good in the defensive zone. Like I said, the JV game's reffing was worse than the Varsity game's. But for instance in the Varsity game, one of the Minot players fell down in front of the net. The puck was no where to be seen and there was a scrum. But the reffs would not blow the whistle. When they finaly did, it turned out that the Minot player was on top of the puck (out of the crease) and they gave him a delay of game penalty. You can not give a kid a delay of game penalty for just not getting up when there is a scrum going on.

[UNDhockey22]

Yes it was a big road win for the team. It should help them carry some momentum into the West Region turnament. They are realy clicking on all cylinders right now. Also, they are good in the defensive zone. Like I said, the JV game's reffing was worse than the Varsity game's. But for instance in the Varsity game, one of the Minot players fell down in front of the net. The puck was no where to be seen and there was a scrum. But the reffs would not blow the whistle. When they finaly did, it turned out that the Minot player was on top of the puck (out of the crease) and they gave him a delay of game penalty. You can not give a kid a delay of game penalty for just not getting up when there is a scrum going on.

But you can give him a penalty if he is intentionally covering the puck to prevent a goal from being scored.

[SportsDoc]

I have my level 4 coaching certification. I know what is expected of coach's at youth and high school levels. From my level 3 three coaching manual (you need a level three to coach high school) it says- "Be a good friend. Sometimes players do not know how to be friends with coach's or even adults. As their friend, they look for someone to share expierances with, someone to laugh with, someone to work with, someone to trust, someone to turn to, and someone who cares." Obviously, coach's will not be friends in the sense to where you will call them and ask the to come over and play playstation. However, like you would call a friend when you are having trouble at home, coach's are supposed to provide a similar outlet. At the high school level a good coach can relate to the player on various levels. Respect is a very important part of being an effective coach. However, if you are not available for a kid when he needs an outlet, you will lose that respect and the odds of maintaining discipline throughout the team will decrease greatly. The object of coaching at the high school level is not only to win. It is to win, but not to do so at the cost of a students emotional and physical well being. Such practices as neglecting the feelings and problems of a high school student will only further the distance between a coach and his players, which will in turn reduce the chance the players will respond to the coaches systems, desires, motivational speeches and so forth. So in that respect, without maintaining a relationship with your players at a personal level, the opportunity of success in your program reduces greatly.

I am curious what the devastating consequences may be of being a friend of a player and coach. Because the object is not to only be a friend, or to only be a coach. So in that respect, being a friend to the player should not affect the ability to coach the player because you are relating to him on more than one level.

Consequences of blurring the line between coach and friend can be as innocent as no discipline of the team/player all the way to providing alcohol for team/player on up to sexual misconduct. All of these have happened in ND within the past 5 years.

[UNDhockey22]

Consequences of blurring the line between coach and friend can be as innocent as no discipline of the team/player all the way to providing alcohol for team/player on up to sexual misconduct. All of these have happened in ND within the past 5 years.

Wow. Like I said, the object is to a friend and coach at all times. During games and practices it is most effecient to be just a coach. But besides that you want to be both. There are some people who are so sick and twisted that would take advantage of a player and do something like sexual misconduct. Every once and a while there may be one so corrupt that he would buy his players alcohol. However, that is going to happen whether the person is coaching hockey or not. I do not believe no matter how good of friends Jay Erickson, Dean Wilson, Matt Malm, Brett Stockert, Bina, the list goes on they would purchuse alcohol for or sexually abuse one of their players. If that's what you believe, we should have had stricter background checks on these guys, because they are ticking timebombs around our kids...

[ND Pride]

Consequences of blurring the line between coach and friend can be as innocent as no discipline of the team/player all the way to providing alcohol for team/player on up to sexual misconduct. All of these have happened in ND within the past 5 years.

Again, I think there are some issues of semantics here. Would a coach with no skills at discipline be a friend - knowing that discipline is essential in a team context? No, of course not. Also, no discipline is not an innocent situation but can lead to an erosion of respect for authority. In addition, injuries or other problems can result from lack of discipline. Also, what kind of "friend" would give alcohol to underage players thus risking their eligibility. Same for the sexual misconduct. These are not consequences of friendship but outcomes of ignorance, deviance, and other problems. Being approachable, supportive, and so forth are important coaching attributes. I think the problem here is that you are thinking of "friend" in the sense of an age peer - coaches - if they are considered friends are not age peers to their players - they do not engage activities that typify the age group of the players - at the youth level. If a coach is considered a friend to players it is a far different friendship than that between youth players. The role of coach is similiar to that of teacher - a teacher might be considered a friend but the relationship still requires discipline at times. Not sure why I've gotten into this discussion - mainly to point out that I think there are many different conceptions of what a "friend" is and that is making it seem like there is lack of consensus on the issue.

[Wilbur]

Some scores I've heard from tonight:

Minot 11 Mandan 1

Roseau 4 Red River 1

Anybody got a score from the Bismarck-Jamestown game?

[ND Hockey Guy]

West Fargo 10

Fargo Shanley 0

Bismarck High 6

Jamestown 2

[ND Hockey Guy]

Devils Lake 5

Grand Forks Central 2