skateshattrick Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 South obviously has a problem with holding on the the puck, which was proven when Coach Wilson split the first line up. I agree Souths entire first line holds on to the puck too long, but more often than not its McDougall I see taking a low percentage shot on 3 on 2's and 2 on 1's. I'd like to give McDougall some credit on the nice pass he made to Hooey instead of only saying negative things. He executed the pass perfectly, but that pass doesn't really tell me he is not a selfish player. What other option did have other than passing? It doesn't matter how selfish you are, if you have a player who is clearly on a breakaway if you get them the puck, the pass will be made. Maybe the way I rate a players perfomance and skill level is not 100% reliable, but I like to measure a players success on how they do outside of high school hockey where the competition is generally higher. Obviously, some conclusions can be drawn from how a player performs in high school hockey. In most cases, good players will be successful, and poor players will not be successful. But in some cases, opposite players expierance opposite results. What I mean by that is if they play selects, elite league, exposure camps, etc. Now I'm aware there are some flaws in this because some players choose not to play in the summer months and unable to play in these tournements. In most cases, I try not to evaluate such players unless I am comparing them to a player who is obviously significantly better by means of the intensity the player the other player is recruited. My point is, outside of high school hockey, McDougall has not been very impressive. And I believe that, if you are not a truely good player, the odds of you seeing success outside of high school hockey is very low. And if you are a special player, you will see success. If my memory serves me correctly McDougal did not make the Elite 1 team, and had to play with the Elite 2 league (a league that is actually not affialiated with Elite 1, I believe there was some controversy over the league being named Elite 2). He was then made an alternate for the Elite 1 team behind other Fargo South players Kris Graalum and Ian Powers (Graalum is listed as a forward). Jake is having a great senior season, and I expect him to continue succeeding throughout the season. I'm not sure that success in the Elite league is necessarily a fair reflection of ability. There are typically no tryouts for the team, and players are often placed upon the team based upon reputation of past selection on Select teams. There were a few Elite 1 players that did not make the Team North Dakota for Chicago, and a few more that did not make Junior A teams. In other words, they no longer made the team based upon past performance or reputation. There were also several players from Minnesota who played Elite 1 who were outperformed on Junior A teams by players that were not as fortunate to be selected. Furthermore, success on an Elite 1 team is often directly proportionate to who that person is playing with and the amount of playing time. Jordy Christian and Aaron Marvin are great players, but they also logged more than their fair share of playing time. I'm not saying that is necessarily the case with Jake McDougall, but I would not measure his ability by whether he made Elite 1 or how well he performed (e.g. points scored). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguins87 Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 What are the predictions for second half of the season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knownothing Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 I'm not sure that success in the Elite league is necessarily a fair reflection of ability. There are typically no tryouts for the team, and players are often placed upon the team based upon reputation of past selection on Select teams. There were a few Elite 1 players that did not make the Team North Dakota for Chicago, and a few more that did not make Junior A teams. In other words, they no longer made the team based upon past performance or reputation. There were also several players from Minnesota who played Elite 1 who were outperformed on Junior A teams by players that were not as fortunate to be selected. Furthermore, success on an Elite 1 team is often directly proportionate to who that person is playing with and the amount of playing time. Jordy Christian and Aaron Marvin are great players, but they also logged more than their fair share of playing time. I'm not saying that is necessarily the case with Jake McDougall, but I would not measure his ability by whether he made Elite 1 or how well he performed (e.g. points scored). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNDhockey22 Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 I'm not sure that success in the Elite league is necessarily a fair reflection of ability. There are typically no tryouts for the team, and players are often placed upon the team based upon reputation of past selection on Select teams. There were a few Elite 1 players that did not make the Team North Dakota for Chicago, and a few more that did not make Junior A teams. In other words, they no longer made the team based upon past performance or reputation. There were also several players from Minnesota who played Elite 1 who were outperformed on Junior A teams by players that were not as fortunate to be selected. Furthermore, success on an Elite 1 team is often directly proportionate to who that person is playing with and the amount of playing time. Jordy Christian and Aaron Marvin are great players, but they also logged more than their fair share of playing time. I'm not saying that is necessarily the case with Jake McDougall, but I would not measure his ability by whether he made Elite 1 or how well he performed (e.g. points scored). I'm not sure what you mean by there are typically no tryouts for the team. By saying that you are implying that some years there are tryouts and some years there are not. In any sense, the Elite league does hold tryouts (that is how Grant Larson made the team). If you are reffering to players that played Elite one in the 2005 season and then tried out for team ND, all of which who tried out made the team. A fact that is 100% contrary to your previous statement. Marc Mihulka, Andy Peterson, Andy Dittus, Ross Monson, Jake Delisle, and Nick Klenow all made Team ND. With that information 100% opposite of what you stated, I am not going to take the time to search if Elite one players from MN were outperfomed by players that did make Elite one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knownothing Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 It is my understanding McDougall was an alternate for Elite I but chose to play Elite II instead. Doesn't he also play baseball in the summer? I agree that south's first line does not pass the puck very well. That seems to be north's problem also. If south wants to beat Red River they will need to play as a team much better. Is there a personality conflict on that team? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soohockey15 Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 It is my understanding McDougall was an alternate for Elite I but chose to play Elite II instead. Doesn't he also play baseball in the summer? I agree that south's first line does not pass the puck very well. That seems to be north's problem also. If south wants to beat Red River they will need to play as a team much better. Is there a personality conflict on that team? He plays for the Fargo legion team in the summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skateshattrick Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 I'm not sure what you mean by there are typically no tryouts for the team. By saying that you are implying that some years there are tryouts and some years there are not. In any sense, the Elite league does hold tryouts (that is how Grant Larson made the team). If you are reffering to players that played Elite one in the 2005 season and then tried out for team ND, all of which who tried out made the team. A fact that is 100% contrary to your previous statement. Marc Mihulka, Andy Peterson, Andy Dittus, Ross Monson, Jake Delisle, and Nick Klenow all made Team ND. With that information 100% opposite of what you stated, I am not going to take the time to search if Elite one players from MN were outperfomed by players that did make Elite one. There were not tryouts for the 2005 team Great Plains Elite 1 team. ND got 11 nominations to the team, and the selection criteria was as follows: 1. National Festival participants 2. Dakota Selects participants 3. League scouting reports 4. HS coaches recommendations. Thus, it is not based on tryouts, but upon past performance and who you know. I have an email that confirms how the team was selected. I assume that the same criteria was used this last year when Jake McDougall tried out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNDhockey22 Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringDeanBack Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 Well, if practice is too tought they can always quit like Alex Simonson. Then all you have to do is enroll at Red River and Coach Malm will get you on the team. Nevermind that other kids from Red River were cut from the team, but somehow they find room for Simonson. Is he seriously going to get to play for RR next year? Great message, when the going gets tough, just quit because the other high school coach in town will pick you up. Actually, RR probably cuts guys just as good as him every year. The only reason he looked pretty good is because he was on Central. Kind of like a decent looking girl hanging out with fat chicks to make her look even better than she is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skateshattrick Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 Is he seriously going to get to play for RR next year? Great message, when the going gets tough, just quit because the other high school coach in town will pick you up. Actually, RR probably cuts guys just as good as him every year. The only reason he looked pretty good is because he was on Central. Kind of like a decent looking girl hanging out with fat chicks to make her look even better than she is. I don't think that's fair. He's very talented and will be a top player for RR next year. His brother Morgan was also very good and played at Lincoln of the USHL before a concussion cut his career short. Many believe he is more talented than Morgan. He's also a nice kid and his parents are good people. Please try not to rip kids on here--they read these messages also. If you don't believe he's talented, you should look at the WCHA prospects blog. He was one of the few ND players listed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lives-to-play-hockey-06 Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 Is he seriously going to get to play for RR next year? Great message, when the going gets tough, just quit because the other high school coach in town will pick you up. Actually, RR probably cuts guys just as good as him every year. The only reason he looked pretty good is because he was on Central. Kind of like a decent looking girl hanging out with fat chicks to make her look even better than she is. I'm going to go out on a limb and say this has never happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X2theZ Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 One last thing it's not Eric Meland anymore, it's Eric "Couger" Melandcamp. Has anyone heard where "Couger" is playing next year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proudsioux Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 any score updates tonite? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoDakSioux Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 Anyone know the score of the Century and BHS game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringDeanBack Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 I don't think that's fair. He's very talented and will be a top player for RR next year. His brother Morgan was also very good and played at Lincoln of the USHL before a concussion cut his career short. Many believe he is more talented than Morgan. He's also a nice kid and his parents are good people. Please try not to rip kids on here--they read these messages also. If you don't believe he's talented, you should look at the WCHA prospects blog. He was one of the few ND players listed. The kid obviously has talent and I probably am wrong about RR cutting players better than him, but... Tony Bina is also a very nice and decent person so why not play for him? I guess I'm from the school of thought where you either don't start the season with Central, or else you start and finish the season with Central. Don't quit halfway through. It is not like this is Bina's first year, so kids coming in know what to expect out of him. Hypothetically, what would you say to the last kid that got cut from Central who truly wanted to play but couldn't because someone beat him out only to quit a couple of games into the year? The only reason I label this as hypothetical, is because with Central's low numbers I don't know how many if any kids got cut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Csonked Out Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 Anyone know the score of the Century and BHS game? Bismarck High won 5-0 Wasn't much of a game at all. They were shorthanded nearly the entire first period and still dominated every aspect of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNDhockey22 Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 The kid obviously has talent and I probably am wrong about RR cutting players better than him, but... Tony Bina is also a very nice and decent person so why not play for him? I guess I'm from the school of thought where you either don't start the season with Central, or else you start and finish the season with Central. Don't quit halfway through. It is not like this is Bina's first year, so kids coming in know what to expect out of him. Hypothetically, what would you say to the last kid that got cut from Central who truly wanted to play but couldn't because someone beat him out only to quit a couple of games into the year? The only reason I label this as hypothetical, is because with Central's low numbers I don't know how many if any kids got cut. Life is unfair. If a player was left of the team and then a spot was opened when Simonson quit the team, it is truely unfortunate. But, that's life. And it's better kids learn these lessons now then when they are out of college looking for a job. Maybe Simonson knew what to expect, but maybe he and Bina were not on good terms to begin with. It only takes a coach humiliating a player in front of the team once (just an example, I don't have any evidence to say this happend) to make a player want to leave the team. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ND Hockey Guy Posted January 12, 2007 Author Share Posted January 12, 2007 Fargo Shanley 6 Wahpeton 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lives-to-play-hockey-06 Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 Fargo Shanley 6 Wahpeton 3 Darn that was my upset special for the night. I guess we still have the play in game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siouxhockey78 Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 Life is unfair. If a player was left of the team and then a spot was opened when Simonson quit the team, it is truely unfortunate. But, that's life. And it's better kids learn these lessons now then when they are out of college looking for a job. Maybe Simonson knew what to expect, but maybe he and Bina were not on good terms to begin with. It only takes a coach humiliating a player in front of the team once (just an example, I don't have any evidence to say this happend) to make a player want to leave the team. Just a thought. What is the deal with Alex? does plan on transfering somewhere for next like RR or he just hanging it up. Maybe he could help out GPR.....lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightonsioux Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 If Alex can't handle a high school coach, what makes him think he can go on and play in the USHL. Tony is the coach. Period. If the kids have no respect for their coach they have no business being on a team. I take it Alex never played football, because if he thinks Bina is a hard coach he should have played for Berg. Tony is not there to be Alex's friend, he is the coach. Suck it up Alex, it only gets harder from here. Good thing Blais doesn't coach for the Sioux, Alex would have been crying the first day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siouxmama Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 Life is unfair. If a player was left of the team and then a spot was opened when Simonson quit the team, it is truely unfortunate. But, that's life. And it's better kids learn these lessons now then when they are out of college looking for a job. Maybe Simonson knew what to expect, but maybe he and Bina were not on good terms to begin with. It only takes a coach humiliating a player in front of the team once (just an example, I don't have any evidence to say this happend) to make a player want to leave the team. Just a thought. Yes, life is sometimes unfair. Cowboy up, and deal with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNDhockey22 Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 If Alex can't handle a high school coach, what makes him think he can go on and play in the USHL. Tony is the coach. Period. If the kids have no respect for their coach they have no business being on a team. I take it Alex never played football, because if he thinks Bina is a hard coach he should have played for Berg. Tony is not there to be Alex's friend, he is the coach. Suck it up Alex, it only gets harder from here. Good thing Blais doesn't coach for the Sioux, Alex would have been crying the first day. Unless you know the situation I'd avoid ripping into Simonson. Truth be told, high school coachs are supposed to be a players friend. This is not college hockey or pro hockey or Herb Brooks 1980 Olympic team (where you probably got the idea to say such a thing, "I will be your coach, I won't be your friend."). At every youth level the players are frequently told by their coachs that if they ever need anything or anyone to talk to about problems they are having in life, school, or with their girlfriend that they can talk to their coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringDeanBack Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 Unless you know the situation I'd avoid ripping into Simonson. Truth be told, high school coachs are supposed to be a players friend. This is not college hockey or pro hockey or Herb Brooks 1980 Olympic team (where you probably got the idea to say such a thing, "I will be your coach, I won't be your friend."). At every youth level the players are frequently told by their coachs that if they ever need anything or anyone to talk to about problems they are having in life, school, or with their girlfriend that they can talk to their coach. Unless you know the situation, I'd avoid making subtle statements that indicate that Bina is somehow to blame for this. The kid quit, end of story. Are these same players told at every level of play that they are supposed to quit the first time they ever get a coach that they don't like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junior24 Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 Unless you know the situation I'd avoid ripping into Simonson. Truth be told, high school coachs are supposed to be a players friend. This is not college hockey or pro hockey or Herb Brooks 1980 Olympic team (where you probably got the idea to say such a thing, "I will be your coach, I won't be your friend."). At every youth level the players are frequently told by their coachs that if they ever need anything or anyone to talk to about problems they are having in life, school, or with their girlfriend that they can talk to their coach. As i said before, dont bash someone unless you know the circumstance. Several Central players have said that Bina was in fact a total prick to Alex in particular. He made it as if he was never doing anything good enough, fast enough, hard enough. I know that is a part of coaching, pushing the players to go harder but when you single out a KID like that, you deserve no respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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