USD and Augustana to DI highly likely

[star2city]

Sioux City Journal: USD and Augie to DI

Don't be shocked or surprised in December when the University of South Dakota and Augustana announce they'll leave the North Central Conference and upgrade their current NCAA Division II status to Division I in all sports except football, where the Coyotes will play at the I-AA level and Augie at the non-scholarship I-AA level (like Drake).

By dropping scholarships for football, a DI move for Augustana could actually be cost neutral. Also, if Sioux Falls ever built a new arena, a DI Augustana in the Sioux Falls market could actually be more attractive, in the long-term, to the Missouri Valley Conference than SDSU and certainly moreso than USD.

However, the NAIA Dakota Athletic Conference is reportedly considering a wholesale switch to NCAA Division II.

Earlier, the UND move to DI had been considered likely to open the door for the DAC's to move to DII.

[aff]

Sioux City Journal: USD and Augie to DI

By dropping scholarships for football, a DI move for Augustana could actually be cost neutral. Also, if Sioux Falls ever built a new arena, a DI Augustana in the Sioux Falls market could actually be more attractive, in the long-term, to the Missouri Valley Conference than SDSU and certainly moreso than USD.

Earlier, the UND move to DI had been considered likely to open the door for the DAC's to move to DII.

So what do you think about that Starcity? It kind of looks like UND may be in a little bit of a pickle if both of those schools move up doesn't it? You have to admit, from a conference perspective USD and Augie may be a better pitch than UND. Even if its not, UND may be running the risk of being grouped with several also rans in a move to D-I, making conference affiliation pretty hard to come by.

I've also been meaning to get back here to listen to your ideas about whats going to happen with UND if NDSU/SDSU get an invite to the gateway? That would spell major trouble for the rest of the schools moving up with football, because they would likely not have a home for football to even look for, not that being an indy in fb is the end of the world, but it doesn't help. Some interesting times, thats for sure.

[star2city]

So what do you think about that Starcity? It kind of looks like UND may be in a little bit of a pickle if both of those schools move up doesn't it? You have to admit, from a conference perspective USD and Augie may be a better pitch than UND. Even if its not, UND may be running the risk of being grouped with several also rans in a move to D-I, making conference affiliation pretty hard to come by.

I've also been meaning to get back here to listen to your ideas about whats going to happen with UND if NDSU/SDSU get an invite to the gateway? That would spell major trouble for the rest of the schools moving up with football, because they would likely not have a home for football to even look for, not that being an indy in fb is the end of the world, but it doesn't help. Some interesting times, thats for sure.

I personally happen to believe that USD has already been doing some heavy politicking with the MidCon. Wasn't it strange that during the MidCOn visit to Brookings, that half the MidCon contingent went off to Sturgis to meet with the South Dakota Regents. Was the MidCon concerned that SDSU didn't have the wherewithall to stay in DI? Or was a certain President, named Abbott, pulling strings behind the scenes and stipulating that another SD school be added later for the benefit of all South Dakota's universities? Would seem Abbott knows how to play the South Dakota political system, especially when SDSU had a lameduck outsider President like Miller. So what exactly did Abbott arrange, aff? Could it be that USD will also soon become a member of the MidCon. When WKU leaves the Gateway, will the next three schools the Gateway takes be USD, SDSU, and NDSU?

Am I concerned?

[Bigdog42]

All this doesn't surprise me at all and I wouldn't be surprised if UND and NDSU go to the Gateway instead of SDSU/NDSU. Just throwing that out there!!

[The Sicatoka]

Augie going DI in a Drake, Creighton, or Valparaiso -model just might make sense.

I do find great humor in notions of NDSU and/or SDSU abandoning the Great West for the Gateway before (a) the Gateway even has a slot, or (b) either has played Mid-Con conference game.

Speculation is great fun.

[Woden]

All this doesn't surprise me at all and I wouldn't be surprised if UND and NDSU go to the Gateway instead of SDSU/NDSU. Just throwing that out there!!

I've said it before and I'll say it again. SDSU is the step-child no one wants, and has pulled NDSU down with respect to finding a conference. No one wants them. They are in financial ruin right now and it appears there is no way out. NDSU/UND are the most attractive pair for any conference.

[Bison Dan]

I personally happen to believe that USD has already been doing some heavy politicking with the MidCon. Wasn't it strange that during the MidCOn visit to Brookings, that half the MidCon contingent went off to Sturgis to meet with the South Dakota Regents. Was the MidCon concerned that SDSU didn't have the wherewithall to stay in DI? Or was a certain President, named Abbott, pulling strings behind the scenes and stipulating that another SD school be added later for the benefit of all South Dakota's universities? Would seem Abbott knows how to play the South Dakota political system, especially when SDSU had a lameduck outsider President like Miller. So what exactly did Abbott arrange, aff? Could it be that USD will also soon become a member of the MidCon. When WKU leaves the Gateway, will the next three schools the Gateway takes be USD, SDSU, and NDSU?

Am I concerned?

You should be - the only reason that they went to Sturgis is because the SDSU president couldn't get out of the meetings there. Why didn't they go to UND, I understand that your AD invited them up but they declined. The Mid-Con is set with 10 teams so why would they take USD? If WKU leaves the Gateway, NDSU and SDSU have a good shot at an invite. They aren't going to consider a bunch of new DI schools that haven't even approached their exploratory year yet. The ncc is 3-4 years to late, but that's what happens when you make decisions when only looking at the short run.

[The Sicatoka]

... 3-4 years to late, but that's what happens when you make decisions when only looking at the short run.

I think you just contradicted yourself:

3 or 4 years is nothing in a long-term planning and decision process of this nature.

If you are looking short-run only, 3 or 4 years is a big deal.

[aff]

You should be - the only reason that they went to Sturgis is because the SDSU president couldn't get out of the meetings there. Why didn't they go to UND, I understand that your AD invited them up but they declined. The Mid-Con is set with 10 teams so why would they take USD? If WKU leaves the Gateway, NDSU and SDSU have a good shot at an invite. They aren't going to consider a bunch of new DI schools that haven't even approached their exploratory year yet. The ncc is 3-4 years to late, but that's what happens when you make decisions when only looking at the short run.

Don't even respond, I started typing up a long message to mock that, but I decided against posting on it, because not even starcity thinks that the mid con officials went to make sure that USD got into the mid-con. I do find it amusing though that starcity seems to think that the Presidents of UND and USD have a God's eye vision of whats going on around them, while the Presidents of SDSU and NDSU are morons that can't see whats going to hit them when USD and UND are coming. Evidence would indicate that SDSU and NDSU's presidents have had some foresight in this whole movement, while UND and USD have gotten caught with their pants around their ankles, but I guess not. I guess right now everything is going exactly how UND and USD anticipated, right?

[aff]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. SDSU is the step-child no one wants, and has pulled NDSU down with respect to finding a conference. No one wants them. They are in financial ruin right now and it appears there is no way out. NDSU/UND are the most attractive pair for any conference.

Brilliant, the school that will be at 60 scholarships next year is in financial ruin, while the school that can't even afford to fund scholarships at a D-II level is the most attractive. Sounds like you've got it all figured out. Seen any women's hockey games lately? I know that they've been rolling in the money from all of that financial well-being at UND, they definitely are not on tuition waivers LOL.

[star2city]

Don't even respond, I started typing up a long message to mock that, but I decided against posting on it, because not even starcity thinks that the mid con officials went to make sure that USD got into the mid-con. I do find it amusing though that starcity seems to think that the Presidents of UND and USD have a God's eye vision of whats going on around them, while the Presidents of SDSU and NDSU are morons that can't see whats going to hit them when USD and UND are coming. Evidence would indicate that SDSU and NDSU's presidents have had some foresight in this whole movement, while UND and USD have gotten caught with their pants around their ankles, but I guess not. I guess right now everything is going exactly how UND and USD anticipated, right?

So it does apparently irritate you to no end that USD's President has already been talking with the MidCon, at a meeting precipitated by SDSU no less, and may have been gathering state political support to accomplish USD's entry. I can see you have the best interests of the State of South Dakota in your heart.

[aff]

So it does apparently irritate you to no end that USD's President has already been talking with the MidCon, at a meeting precipitated by SDSU no less, and may have been gathering state political support to accomplish USD's entry. I can see you have the best interests of the State of South Dakota in your heart.

Does it irritate me? No, and I'm not sure how you got that out of what I typed. Do I think its stupid to even say? Yeah, I think its pretty dumb.

Most people would think its pretty normal for mid-con officials to meet with the South Dakota Board of Regents, when they are considering a school in South Dakota that is under the board of regents responsibility. Since the board of regents was meeting in Rapid City, I guess they had to go to Rapid City. Leave it to you to come up with a conspiracy theory though, I mean how could there be a conference meeting without alterior motives? Its not even possible right? And what exactly would Abbot be saying to Garner support? If SDSU gets in USD has too to or ...... whats that threat again? Oh, I guess it doesn't really makes sense for Abbot to be telling his bosses what to do, does it? With the way things work in ND, the presidents telling the chancellor what to do and all, I guess I can understand your confusion, but in SD the board of regents is in charge. So what do you think Abbot was doing there? Begging for admission to the conference. Hmmmm, UND couldn't talk to the mid-con, but I guess USD could now? Lets think, does that sound logical? No, I guess not.

Come on Starcity, usually your little theories have something to them, but this one was just a hollow shell. Theres not even a certain sentence for somebody to single out as evidence, there nothing there. I know you can come up with something better. I was honestly expecting the theory to be Augie as basketball only, along with USD and UND, all to the big sky, but I guess not. Maybe in a couple more weeks?

[dlsiouxfan]

Brilliant, the school that will be at 60 scholarships next year is in financial ruin, while the school that can't even afford to fund scholarships at a D-II level is the most attractive. Sounds like you've got it all figured out. Seen any women's hockey games lately? I know that they've been rolling in the money from all of that financial well-being at UND, they definitely are not on tuition waivers LOL.

It's a well know fact that sdsu has been the fat chick in regards to the whole ndsu-sdsu conference buddy scenario. What at all is attractive about the sdsu athletic department? Football sucks.... men's basketball sucks.... unless you're hoping to find a top equestrian league then partnering with sdsu is sort of like fastening an anchor to your leg and swimming the 100 meter butterfly. UND is going to 57 scholarships there first year of I-AA football so get ready because right now you wouldn't come within three touchdowns of us and we're at 36. Have fun with your single win football season.

[aff]

It's a well know fact that sdsu has been the fat chick in regards to the whole ndsu-sdsu conference buddy scenario. What at all is attractive about the sdsu athletic department? Football sucks.... men's basketball sucks.... unless you're hoping to find a top equestrian league then partnering with sdsu is sort of like fastening an anchor to your leg and swimming the 100 meter butterfly. UND is going to 57 scholarships there first year of I-AA football so get ready because right now you wouldn't come within three touchdowns of us and we're at 36. Have fun with your single win football season.

First off, I'm not from SDSU, don't I don't really care how the big football game goes, especially one that hasn't been scheduled yet. Second, how many of that 57 is going to come from tuition waivers? Its easy to spout off about something that is two years away, not so easy to actually fund that. And by fund, I mean come up with the money for it, not get tuition waivers. I also mean, fund women's hockey scholarships along with the football scholarships. You remember womens hockey right? The sport that you've been working years on to get actually scholarship money into, but haven't quite been able to get those, what is it, 12 scholarships? But I know, you'll be at 57 for football in your first year. Keep talking big man, you seem to have it all figured out up there.

EDIT: I just saw that comment about SDSU mens basketball sucking. Coming from a UND fan. Yeah, I don't think anybody from UND needs to be talking smack about mens basketball for the next decade or so.

[GeauxSioux]

First off, I'm not from SDSU, don't I don't really care how the big football game goes, especially one that hasn't been scheduled yet. Second, how many of that 57 is going to come from tuition waivers? Its easy to spout off about something that is two years away, not so easy to actually fund that. And by fund, I mean come up with the money for it, not get tuition waivers. I also mean, fund women's hockey scholarships along with the football scholarships. You remember womens hockey right? The sport that you've been working years on to get actually scholarship money into, but haven't quite been able to get those, what is it, 12 scholarships? But I know, you'll be at 57 for football in your first year. Keep talking big man, you seem to have it all figured out up there.

EDIT: I just saw that comment about SDSU mens basketball sucking. Coming from a UND fan. Yeah, I don't think anybody from UND needs to be talking smack about mens basketball for the next decade or so.

Haven't we already determined that you did go to SDSU?

http://siouxsports.com/forums/index.php?sh...mp;#entry169847

Do you really think that any of us have it all figured out? If we did we wouldn't be sitting here typing it on a message board. It's easy to spout off how bad things are going to be at UND two years from now, as you probably will have moved on from this board by that time when things really aren't as bleak as you had predicted. Kupchella has stated that he wants to take the next year to get things in order. Time will tell who is right.

[aff]

Haven't we already determined that you did go to SDSU?

http://siouxsports.com/forums/index.php?sh...mp;#entry169847

Do you really think that any of us have it all figured out? If we did we wouldn't be sitting here typing it on a message board. It's easy to spout off how bad things are going to be at UND two years from now, as you probably will have moved on from this board by that time when things really aren't as bleak as you had predicted. Kupchella has stated that he wants to take the next year to get things in order. Time will tell who is right.

Not a FAN OF SDSU. Goddamn, I guess the rest of an opinion isn't relevant unless you have something to throw smack at on this "board with no smack", right? Good job just ignoring the entire substance of what I wrote to get to the important information of whether or not AFF has season tickets for SDSU or not.

I guess the only time you can actually evaluate whether this is a good idea or not for UND is also "two years from now" when "time will tell". Tell you what, go tell your boss that "only time will tell" if your proposal is a good idea or not, and see if you keep your job. I simply point out facts about UND's move, and potential problems, but Lord knows it can't be a bad idea, because the leadership of UND is infalliable. I mean, these are actual living God's that don't need outside consultants, million dollar deficits, or nearly tapped out markets to tell them that D-I is a bad idea. They have hockey, and NDSU was fine, SO UND WILL BE TOO!

Seriously, its like talking to somebody with blinders on telling them that a corner is coming up. "I've been driving straight this whole time, why would anything change?".

[nd1sufan]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. SDSU is the step-child no one wants, and has pulled NDSU down with respect to finding a conference. No one wants them. They are in financial ruin right now and it appears there is no way out. NDSU/UND are the most attractive pair for any conference.

That may have been the case 4 years ago if both NDSU and UND went D1 at the same time, not not now. If SDSU is the step-child, UND would be the step child's child now because they are 4 or 5 years behind in the process. You can talk all you want about how attractive UND is to a conference, but for the next 4 to 5 years, they have virtually no value to any conference. They should have at the very least declared their exploratory year this year instead of dragging it out another year.

[biff]

Don't be shocked or surprised in December when the University of South Dakota and Augustana announce they'll leave the North Central Conference and upgrade their current NCAA Division II status to Division I in all sports except football, where the Coyotes will play at the I-AA level and Augie at the non-scholarship I-AA level (like Drake).

University of Sioux Falls gets more love in SF than Augustana. In athletics even being in Sioux Falls, Auggie's got nothing on USD or SDSU.

The writer of this article is out of touch.

[GeauxSioux]

Not a FAN OF SDSU. Goddamn, I guess the rest of an opinion isn't relevant unless you have something to throw smack at on this "board with no smack", right? Good job just ignoring the entire substance of what I wrote to get to the important information of whether or not AFF has season tickets for SDSU or not.

I guess the only time you can actually evaluate whether this is a good idea or not for UND is also "two years from now" when "time will tell". Tell you what, go tell your boss that "only time will tell" if your proposal is a good idea or not, and see if you keep your job. I simply point out facts about UND's move, and potential problems, but Lord knows it can't be a bad idea, because the leadership of UND is infalliable. I mean, these are actual living God's that don't need outside consultants, million dollar deficits, or nearly tapped out markets to tell them that D-I is a bad idea. They have hockey, and NDSU was fine, SO UND WILL BE TOO!

Seriously, its like talking to somebody with blinders on telling them that a corner is coming up. "I've been driving straight this whole time, why would anything change?".

Looks like I ruffled someone's feathers.

When I write up a proposal for something, which I do on a daily basis, I have all of the information that I need to write an informed proposal. That is why I still have a job.

Neither you or I have all of the information at this time to evaluate this decision. The leadership at UND has the information and resources to make this decision.

By the way keep it up taking the Lord's name in vain and you will be the only person on my ignore list.

[dlsiouxfan]

That may have been the case 4 years ago if both NDSU and UND went D1 at the same time, not not now. If SDSU is the step-child, UND would be the step child's child now because they are 4 or 5 years behind in the process. You can talk all you want about how attractive UND is to a conference, but for the next 4 to 5 years, they have virtually no value to any conference. They should have at the very least declared their exploratory year this year instead of dragging it out another year.

Come on now, it's time to stop dancing with the fat chick because the real hottie turned you down the first time.

[dlsiouxfan]

EDIT: I just saw that comment about SDSU mens basketball sucking. Coming from a UND fan. Yeah, I don't think anybody from UND needs to be talking smack about mens basketball for the next decade or so.

Well at least UND's program has no where to go but up during the D-I transition. Basically all sdsu has to hang there hat on is taking their only athletic program that had any success and running it completely into the toilet. Don't hold your breath waiting for Sioux fans to shower you guys with praise.

[bincitysioux]

Once rock-solid NCC shaken

The task force has a target date of Nov. 6 to complete its review. The group will forward its findings and any recommendations to Abbott, who makes the final decision. A move to Division I would require the approval of the South Dakota Board of Regents.

The task force already has information gathered from a 2002 study on whether to move to Division I, said Tina Keller, task force co-chairman, physics professor and associate dean for administration in the College of Arts and Sciences at USD. While USD officials decided at that time to remain in Division II, the landscape has changed greatly in the past four years, she added.

In addition, USD officials plan to use information from UND's process because the schools are similar in academics including professional

schools.

Money will definitely loom as a major issue, Nielsen said.

"The average I-AA school with football has an annual athletic budget in the range of $7.5-8 million," he said. "We currently run a $4.7-5 million athletic budget for the next fiscal year. We have always been in the ballpark for pure Division II schools."

NCC schools with Division I hockey, such as UND, have larger athletic budgets, which makes comparisons somewhat difficult, Nielsen said. "The best comparison may be between us and SDSU three years ago. We had very

similar budgets," he said.

USD will likely need to raise an additional $2 to $3 million annually if it moves to Division I, Nielsen said. The Board of Regents policy places restrictions on funding sources, including tuition and fees, for Division I reclassification, he said.

"We have to draw from fund raisers, corporate sponsorships and ticket revenue," he said. "We are always looking for additional revenue."

[Woden]

That may have been the case 4 years ago if both NDSU and UND went D1 at the same time, not not now. If SDSU is the step-child, UND would be the step child's child now because they are 4 or 5 years behind in the process. You can talk all you want about how attractive UND is to a conference, but for the next 4 to 5 years, they have virtually no value to any conference. They should have at the very least declared their exploratory year this year instead of dragging it out another year.

Your missing the whole point of my post. No one wants SDSU! I don't care if they've been DI for four score and seven years, with their current financial situation and athletic performances, they have nothing to bring to the table. I didn't mean it as a pro-UND post, which you obviously took it as. Truthfully, USD-NDSU probably looks better to conferences than SDSU-NDSU. If you want proof of how dire SDSU's financial situation is, at one point in time they were unable to pay to send film of football games to other schools, which is required by conference by-laws.

I don't know what it really matters being 4-5 years behind anyways. Yeah, the post-season restrictions aren't very kind, but after seeing that Northeastern team that came into NDSU, I've decided the Fargo South Bruins could move up and win some IAA games. Seriously, that was a joke of a college football team, and if you think otherwise, than so be it, you won't change my mind. Just like NDSU was coming out of DII, UND will be a top 25 program immediately in IAA.

[johnnyroyale]

So what do you think about that Starcity? It kind of looks like UND may be in a little bit of a pickle if both of those schools move up doesn't it? You have to admit, from a conference perspective USD and Augie may be a better pitch than UND. Even if its not, UND may be running the risk of being grouped with several also rans in a move to D-I, making conference affiliation pretty hard to come by.

I've also been meaning to get back here to listen to your ideas about whats going to happen with UND if NDSU/SDSU get an invite to the gateway? That would spell major trouble for the rest of the schools moving up with football, because they would likely not have a home for football to even look for, not that being an indy in fb is the end of the world, but it doesn't help. Some interesting times, thats for sure.

Not a problem. Everybody knows that the Big Sky passed up NDSU/SDSU because they were waiting for UND the whole time.

[johnnyroyale]

Your missing the whole point of my post. No one wants SDSU! I don't care if they've been DI for four score and seven years, with their current financial situation and athletic performances, they have nothing to bring to the table. I didn't mean it as a pro-UND post, which you obviously took it as. Truthfully, USD-NDSU probably looks better to conferences than SDSU-NDSU. If you want proof of how dire SDSU's financial situation is, at one point in time they were unable to pay to send film of football games to other schools, which is required by conference by-laws.

I don't know what it really matters being 4-5 years behind anyways. Yeah, the post-season restrictions aren't very kind, but after seeing that Northeastern team that came into NDSU, I've decided the Fargo South Bruins could move up and win some IAA games. Seriously, that was a joke of a college football team, and if you think otherwise, than so be it, you won't change my mind. Just like NDSU was coming out of DII, UND will be a top 25 program immediately in IAA.

I hope you're joking. I was at the Northeastern/NDSU game and I'll tell you what--that NE team was no joke. They held Virginia Tech to 110 yds rushing. Virginia Tech. Northeastern is going to win plenty of games this year. After UND's victory at Northern Iowa, I have no doubt that they'd be COMPETITIVE in the Top 25 of I-AA. Do I think they'd be a Top 25 team in I-AA? I'm still debating that. I do know, however, that they could compete in I-AA. Let's just see how well Northern Iowa does the rest of the year. If you think that I-AA is such a joke then have your 'Yotes schedule some of those I-AA teams. And I'm not talking Valparaiso or Drake. I'm talking Montana, Georgia Southern, Youngstown State, Appalachian State, Cal Poly, UC Davis, and NDSU. See how USD does with THAT schedule and then come talk your smack. Until your school moves up and DOES SOMETHING, sit back down and shut up. My 2 cents.........