Fullerton Still Talking Big Sky Expansion

[tnt]

You can't compete only with dii sports- you have to use the 7 DI NC. Yes for sure UND is more successful in Hockey than any of it's dii sports.

2002 Women's Indoor Track National Championship

2001 Wrestling Championships

2000 Wrestling Championships

1998 Wrestling Championships

1988 Wrestling Championships

1996 Women's Basketball National Championship

1995 Women's Basketball National Championship

1994 Women's Basketball National Championship

1993 Women's Basketball National Championship

1991 Women's Basketball National Championship

1990 NCAA Division II Football National Championship

1988 NCAA Division II Football National Championship

1986 NCAA Division II Football National Championship

1985 NCAA Division II Football National Championship

1983 NCAA Division II Football National Championship

1969 Camellia Bowl

1968 Pecan Bowl

1965 Pecan Bowl

1972 Men's Cross Country National Championship Meet

These are just the championships - there are too numerous 2nd, 3rd, and 4th place national finishes to list here.

Best not to show something that is proving the point against you. NDSU was king of the hill at one point, then it became all UND in the major sports. Seems like an odd time to move up a class when you had been regressing in terms of dominance. In fact if you look at your listing, NDSU and dominance in the major sports haven't been synonymous for quite a while.

[GeauxSioux]

You are correct. There is no comparison between NDSU's football championships to the amount of worldwide publicity and recognition UND receives for its hockey program and championships.

If we were talking about a big time BCS type football championship with a huge national audience and the capture all of media outlets around the globe, you may have a point, but Division II or even I-AA championships don't enjoy that kind of attention.

By the way, I know you think that the comparison between your new logo and the Cowardly Lion from the Wizard of Oz is being overdone, but I still laugh everytime I see it. It's almost as if the Cowardly Lion was morphed into the logo. You may have some copyright problems with that.

[star2city]

Getting back to the Big Sky and expansion, there are a couple of University of British Columbia blogs that discuss UBC & the NCAA, going DI, and joining the Big Sky (among other conferences).

http://tbirdbaseball.net/content/view/36/51/

IAA Football at UBC may be part of the package:

Division 1-AA football is still high-quality and competitive, draws decent crowds, and occasional television exposure. The obvious conference membership for the Thunderbirds would be the Big Sky, which includes Montana, Eastern Washington, Portland State, and Idaho State. All of the teams in this conference except Northern Arizona are closer geographically than Regina and Saskatchewan, and Northern Arizona is still closer than Manitoba.

Vancouver is a good basketball town, and games against Gonzaga and Pepperdine could draw crowds in the 10,000 range at GM Place. This probably wouldn't be possible with Big Sky teams.

http://www.scoutme.ca/index.cfm?go=content...mp;site=athlete

UBC also possesses one of the biggest campuses in the country and are also upgrading all of their facilities in preparation for the 2010 Winter Olympics. For example, the multi-purpose hockey arena that is being constructed on campus would seat 6,000 for hockey and over 7,000 for basketball, a much needed addition to the War Memorial Gym that seats approximately half of that for basketball. The NCAA was very impressed with the plans for new facilities and even commented about the campus, saying it was one of the most beautiful campuses they had ever seen!

DU, UND, and UBC would be quite attractive an addition to the BSC!!

[MplsBison]

And without the Montana schools, the Big Sky is a pretty worthless school for basketball and football.

[Cratter]

And without the Montana schools, the Big Sky is a pretty worthless school for basketball and football.

and without any teams a conference is pretty worthless for basketball and football.

[MplsBison]

Which is fine.

The Dakota flagships (NDSU, SDSU, USD, and UND) have a unique oppertunity to literally take over a conference and make it their own. We have an oppertunity to make the Mid Con in terms of mid major basketball success and DI-AA football success what the NCC was for both in DII. With the help of Western IL, and the IUPU schools, we can have a real nice thing going.

[star2city]

So this:

Idaho St

Weber St

Portland St

Eastern WA

Sac St

Northern AZ

Northern CO

Southern UT

Denver

UBC

is better than this:

NDSU

SDSU

USD

Oral Roberts

UMKC

Western IL

IUPUI

IUPUFW

Oakland

Southern Utah

Well I know for a fact that the Mid Con would be several times better than the Big Sky without the Montanas in basketball.

The Big Sky would absolutely be better than the MidCon, even without Montana. If the BSC added UBC, UND, and DU, Montana would be tickled, as it would be in a Montana-centric conferece. With the addition of DU, the BSC would also be autobid stable for the forseeable future. The MidCon could very well be wiped out by defections early next decade.

As far as basketball, with the MidCOn lost its only name school in Valpo.

BTW, UND can play NDSU, SDSU, and USD non-conference games. There are no other natural MidCon rivalries. UND would actually have a better overall schedule if it got in a different conference from NDSU/SDSU.

FYI, the MidCOn does not sponsor football and the Great West autobid is nothing but a pipe dream. (UCDavis is gone to IA as soon as it gets a chance is a given, Montana going IA is doubtful.)

The Big Sky is much more prestigious academically and covers the geography where UND wants to recruit students (with the exception of the Twin Cities market, which isn't in either conference footprint.) The MidCon may offer slightly better athletic recruiting markets, but most of the prospective athletes would never have heard of the MidCon schools anyway.

You are one of the few bison fans that ever wanted in the MidCon in the first place. Face it, most bison fans will put on a happy face when they get in the MidCon, but underneath it all they will be very disappointed. As a Sioux fan, I would be very disappointed if UND only has the MidCon as an option, too.

[NanoBison]

BTW, UND can play NDSU, SDSU, and USD non-conference games. There are no other natural MidCon rivalries. UND would actually have a better overall schedule if it got in a different conference from NDSU/SDSU.

I for one hopes this happens, that is if you guys even succeed at making the move... Get admitted into BigSky and then the two Montana Schools bolt after putting up with the West Bias $h*t (Sac State, etc...) for long enough.

[WYOBISONMAN]

I don't think anyone is "disappointed" with the MidCon. With the current make up of the MidCon NDSU will have a very real shot at going to the Big Dance in our first year of elgibility and that is fantastic. Yes, most of us did prefer the Big Sky, but after all the jacking around and delays, the MidCon is a good alternative. I also would agree that the Big Sky would provide more peer institutions and great gates with the Montana Schools, but we can still be playing them in OOC competition.

All in all I think most NDSU fans are happy with a MidCon invite and having a realistic shot at the Big Dance in year one.

Also to think that UND is a cinch for the Sky shows how foolish and out of touch with reality some UND fans are. To think that is not even credible.

[GeauxSioux]

I don't think anyone is "disappointed" with the MidCon. With the current make up of the MidCon NDSU will have a very real shot at going to the Big Dance in our first year of elgibility and that is fantastic. Yes, most of us did prefer the Big Sky, but after all the jacking around and delays, the MidCon is a good alternative. I also would agree that the Big Sky would provide more peer institutions and great gates with the Montana Schools, but we can still be playing them in OOC competition.

All in all I think most NDSU fans are happy with a MidCon invite and having a realistic shot at the Big Dance in year one.

Also to think that UND is a cinch for the Sky shows how foolish and out of touch with reality some UND fans are. To think that is not even credible.

I think if you had asked any Bison fan 1 year or even 6 months ago what they thought of the Mid-Con you would have had a much different answer than you have today. It may be that they just "warmed up" to the idea of being in the Mid-Con, but I would guess that most would still rather be in the Mid-Con. Good luck with your upcoming campus visits from the Mid-Con people.

I don't recall any UND poster saying that a BSC invitation is a "cinch". Star2City seems to have done the most research on the Big Sky and even some of his posts have been tempered with "hope". As for me, I too am just hopeful that it is possible in the near future, as I think the BSC is the best fit for UND.

[MplsBison]

If you trust anyone who claims that UBC (not in the NCAA), DU, and UND all have even a slight chance to join any conference at the same time, you should probably just disconnect your internet and save yourself the money.

[bincitysioux]

.......most bison fans will put on a happy face when they get in the MidCon, but underneath it all they will be very disappointed. As a Sioux fan, I would be very disappointed if UND only has the MidCon as an option, too.

I don't think that there is any question that 98% of all fans from either school would prefer the Big Sky over the Mid-Con. But I think star2city is a little hard on the Mid-Con. Sure, there are more name-recognizable schools in the Sky i.e. Montana, Montana St., & Idaho St. But if NDSU & SDSU are admitted (and possibly USD down the road) then the Mid-Con offers far better travel and natural rivalries than does the Big Sky. MplsBison offers a valid point that the Mid-Con/GWFC is a conference that the four big Dakota schools could become the anchor for in the future.

Again, I prefer the Big Sky, but I wouldn't blink twice or be the least bit disappointed about joining a Mid-Con conference that included two schools that were in very close driving distance of UND.

[star2city]

All in all I think most NDSU fans are happy with a MidCon invite and having a realistic shot at the Big Dance in year one.

This only occurred after a lot of despair, resignation, and gnashing of teeth.

Also to think that UND is a cinch for the Sky shows how foolish and out of touch with reality some UND fans are. To think that is not even credible.

This credibility coming from the same the in-touch bison fans that said "NDSU/SDSU is a lock for the Big Sky."

[star2city]

If you trust anyone who claims that UBC (not in the NCAA), DU, and UND all have even a slight chance to join any conference at the same time, you should probably just disconnect your internet and save yourself the money.

Seems this subject is creating a lot of fear among bisonville fans. A Big Sky with UND but not NDSU? That has to be shere lunacy, says the bison fans (as their worst nightmare has that as an actual possibility). So the mere concept is rejected out of hand for psychological protection of their insecurities.

[MplsBison]

Seems this subject is creating a lot of fear among bisonville fans. A Big Sky with UND but not NDSU? That has to be shere lunacy, says the bison fans (as their worst nightmare has that as an actual possibility). So the mere concept is rejected out of hand for psychological protection of their insecurities.

I won't lose any sleep over it knowing full well that of those 3 UND would be the only school to respond to an official request from the Big Sky to apply to the conference.

If the Big Sky is going to request the UBC and DU apply to the conference, they might as well send requests to Notre Dame and the U of Washington.

[aff]

Seems this subject is creating a lot of fear among bisonville fans. A Big Sky with UND but not NDSU? That has to be shere lunacy, says the bison fans (as their worst nightmare has that as an actual possibility). So the mere concept is rejected out of hand for psychological protection of their insecurities.

Yeah, thats it. Its entirely plausible that UND is so great that:

1. DU is going to join a conference they think is below themselves.

2. DU is going to want to join only on the condition that they "get" to play a transitional D-II school in conference.

3. The NCAA is going to allow canadian schools into the league.

4. These canadian schools are going to join the big sky.

5. The big sky is going to want to expand all the way to grand forks, even though it has turned down two similar schools for geography reasons in the last couple of years.

Of course, since this is coming from a UND fan, the underlying assumption for all of this occuring is that UND hockey is so great, that this whole scenario actually has a real chance of happening. I think if you even asked the conference AD's or fullerton himself (if you could get an honest answer out of him) and told them this scenario, they would have no idea where all of this came from. This may be possible to occur, but I think its about as likely as me stirring my cereal this morning and happening on a solution for cold fusion energy.

If you're being realistic here you already know.

1. UND is about the same as the SU's. The big sky didn't expand for one or both of the SU's because of geography, its doubtful they will expand for UND under any circumstances, barring a huge conference movement.

2. DU doesn't want to join the big sky. They are interested in the MVC, or higher profile west coast conferences.

3. Even if DU did go to the sky, they sure as hel! wouldn't require UND to be one of their opponents. The conference RPI is already low enough, I doubt they think a transistional D-II is going to be helping them out any time soon.

4. The NCAA admitting Canadain schools is unlikely, to say the least.

I think that this may be a case of UND fans looking like finding a conference is going to be very difficult for them. There is a real possibility of them being independents for a decade after a move, and they know it. Scenarios like this one are a pretty desperate attempt at hope.

[MplsBison]

the underlying assumption for all of this occuring is that UND hockey is so great, that this whole scenario actually has a real chance of happening.

This is the basic logic of most UND fans.

Fullerton: Sorry, Grand Forks is just too far away. Sac, Portland, and NAU are just not interested at this time in traveling all the way out there.

UND: Our Men's Ice Hockey team has won 7 national DI titles.

Fulerton: *long pause* my....god......... *falls to knees, arms raised in the air* HEAR ME NOW......OH GREAT, GREAT LORDS OF ICE HOCKEY, UND! JOIN THE BIG SKY AND ALL YOUR DREAMS WILL COME TRUE, FOREVER AND EVER!

[PCM]

This is the basic logic of most UND fans.

Wrong...as usual.

[MplsBison]

Oh BS.

Everything and anything that is UND is hockey.

If the entire athletic department could be dropped, save men's ice hockey, the majority of UND fans would vote yes and not think twice.

[DamStrait]

Everything and anything that is UND is hockey.

And everything and anything that is 'SU is hating UND. *cough*(jackass)*cough*

[NanoBison]

And everything and anything that is 'SU is hating UND. *cough*(jackass)*cough*

That's a two way street. It goes both directions. *cough*(dumbass)*cough*

[LeftyZL]

Oh BS.

Everything and anything that is UND is hockey.

If the entire athletic department could be dropped, save men's ice hockey, the majority of UND fans would vote yes and not think twice.

Everything and anything that is NDSU is football

Random Question/Thought....If the entire NDSU athletic department could be dropped, save football, would the majority of NDSU fans would vote yes and not think twice?

The answer to my question posed to you would be an emphatic "yes".

I think your so-called vision of UND athletics might be a little off kilter, whether it be because of being on this website where the majority of the posters I would say follow hockey more closely than football or just for plain simple lack of knowledge of the people that follow each program. Regardless, in no way would the majority of fans vote to drop football or either basketball program to save men's hockey I believe becuase of the sheer number of followers each program has.

[MplsBison]

Until the win over Wisconsin, most NDSU fans would drop the entire athletic department if it came down to a choice between only football or only the rest of the sports.

Now, if the men's bball team has another decent season and esp. if they beat Minnesota, I think you're going to see a sitation like Northern Iowa where fans follow football and men's basketball.

If it came down to a choice between only men's hockey or everything else, all UND fans would choose hockey.

I can admit that NDSU is football. Why can't UND admit that they're hockey?

[The Sicatoka]

3. The NCAA is going to allow canadian schools into the league.

...

4. The NCAA admitting Canadain schools is unlikely, to say the least.

Yet there is,

The NCAA was very impressed with the plans for new facilities and even commented about the campus, saying it was one of the most beautiful campuses they had ever seen!

If it just ain't gonna happen, why would the NCAA even look?

[MplsBison]

Where is your source for this?