Money Troubles at Mayville State

[The Sicatoka]

... a university budget deficit of $870,000 caused by declining full-time enrollment, rising fuel oil costs and poor financial management, (university Vice President for Business Affairs Steve) Bensen said.

http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=128515

As troubling as this is, I expect similar reports from all of the NDUS campuses. Energy costs and the PeopleSoft (ahem) adventures will be the culprits I suspect.

Folks, it might be time to ask why we have campuses at Mayville and Bottineau, and maybe a few others. With the existing technologies on other NDUS campuses the people in those affected areas who can't attend a different school full time could still learn remotely.

[GeauxSioux]

http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=128515

As troubling as this is, I expect similar reports from all of the NDUS campuses. Energy costs and the PeopleSoft (ahem) adventures will be the culprits I suspect.

Folks, it might be time to ask why we have campuses at Mayville and Bottineau, and maybe a few others. With the existing technologies on other NDUS campuses the people in those affected areas who can't attend a different school full time could still learn remotely.

Schools have been closed before in North Dakota. From a North Dakota history website.

1893

The Industrial School at Ellendale (later known as the State Normal and Industrial School) was opened; this institution existed until 1971 when its Constitutional status was removed by referendum.

[HockeyMom]

Living not so far from Mayville, I don't wanna see what will happen to that town if the college closes. I have friends who own businesses and rental properties. Believe me these people are nervous right now.

I have friends that work at Mayville State, staff and administration. I think it would be a huge blow to the community and I don't really wanna see it.

[Siouxmama]

I agree with Hockey Mom. I also live a short distance away from Mayville and know the inpact the college has on that town, and I know a few business owners there too. If something were to happen to that college, it would devastate the town of Mayville. I'd really hate to see something like that happen to another small community.

[82SiouxGuy]

Schools have been closed before in North Dakota. From a North Dakota history website.

I vaguely remember when they closed the school in Ellendale. I think I was in grade school It was a huge deal around the state. It was also a large blow to Ellendale.

There are 2 factors that will make it difficult to close colleges. First is the fact that the people in North Dakota hate to make changes in the constitution. They normally vote no unless they have an overwhelming reason to vote yes. I don't know if saving a few dollars is enough reason to get people to vote yes. 2 years ago a simple amendment to make business incorporation laws more compatible with the rest of the country failed. It is back on the ballot this year. The other factor goes back to what HockeyMom and Siouxmama talked about. Closing schools in places like Mayville and Valley City would be huge blows to the economies of those towns. People don't want to do that to other small towns.

[Sioux-cia]

What would be the savings if the college did close? What ever that is plus the $870,000. deficit may make a difference in the outcome of a vote to close the school. While I would hate for any town to be impacted so harshly by loss of income, people and local businesses, I have to wonder how much the allocation of the money spent on a losing venture may help improve education/teacher pay, etc. at programs that do not carry deficits.

I'm not the bad guy here, just wondering.

[HockeyMom]

What would be the savings if the college did close? What ever that is plus the $870,000. deficit may make a difference in the outcome of a vote to close the school. While I would hate for any town to be impacted so harshly by loss of income, people and local businesses, I have to wonder how much the allocation of the money spent on a losing venture may help improve education/teacher pay, etc. at programs that do not carry deficits.

I'm not the bad guy here, just wondering.

I think that teacher pay would be one of the last things that the money was used for if it was allocated to another school. It's just not a high priority in North Dakota and the people with all the power rarely give it to those who have none. That's my $0.02.

I'm looking at this from a parent's perspective (and probably a selfish one)......my kids plays hockey in Mayville. There isn't a lot of cash to go around right now with that program, we put a lot of time into raising money as it is.....and it's a year-round project for an arena that has ice 6 months a year-depending on the temperatures outside- don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about the work I'll gladly do it because of how happy having the opportunity to play makes my kids. At least three of the other parents just on my oldest's team are employed at Mayville State- I'd have to sit down and look to figure it out for sure. I don't even wanna think of these people packing up an moving.

[ScottM]

Sorry, but with an aging population, NoDak cannot really afford to maintain its current higher-ed structure. A 4-year school in VC and Mayville perhaps made sense 50-100 years ago, but it's highly unlikely they have a place in eastern NoDak, especially with 'SU and UND within 100 miles of each. And to extend on The Sicatoka's comments, with extension course and internet learning, there's really no reason for the state to maintain 4-year schools in every other town.

[CoteauRinkRat]

Sorry, but with an aging population, NoDak cannot really afford to maintain its current higher-ed structure. A 4-year school in VC and Mayville perhaps made sense 50-100 years ago, but it's highly unlikely they have a place in eastern NoDak, especially with 'SU and UND within 100 miles of each. And to extend on The Sicatoka's comments, with extension course and internet learning, there's really no reason for the state to maintain 4-year schools in every other town.

I agree....I don't want to sound like a bad guy either, but it doesn't not make sense to keep all of these schools going, especially when some of them are running big deficits. I don't want to see some of these smaller communities lose one of their remaining economic forces, but the time is coming when some tough decisions about higher ed in this state will need to be made.

[SiouxMD]

Valley City State University gets $500k from Tharaldson.

[andtheHomeoftheSIOUX!!]

If, and its a big "if," Mayville State was to close its doors or even just cut back or eliminate its athetics Minot State would have to move up to D2; I would think anyways. The Minot State president just anounced that they were not going to move up but I bet things would change in a hury if the DAC fell to seven teams.

[HockeyMom]

Does anyone have a link to the Forum's editorial yesterday that the State should step in and help Mayville State out? I didn't get a chance to read it and I heard it was a good piece.

[choyt3]

Does anyone have a link to the Forum's editorial yesterday that the State should step in and help Mayville State out? I didn't get a chance to read it and I heard it was a good piece.

Forum editorial

[MplsBison]

If we can't close them down, then lets start eliminating their programs.

Turn Mayville into a junior college, for starters.

[HockeyMom]

Forum editorial

Thanks.

[ScottM]

If we can't close them down, then lets start eliminating their programs.

Turn Mayville into a junior college, for starters.

I agree with this. I see nothing wrong with reducing the number of 4 year colleges or turning some into 2 year "feeder" programs for the larger 4 year programs. It's ludicrous that NoDak maintains this fiction, whether protected in the Constitution or not, that it needs that many 4 year programs, especially given its overall demographics. Minnesota has used this type of "feeder" program for years for the UM and MSU systems and it serves very legitimate needs, while also recognizing that not every town needs/wants a 4 year school. I think the arguments about "economic vitality" from VC and Mayville are provincial and myopic. If you want to enhance the overall system, for the entire state, you build to your strengths, and not let inefficient or ineffective programs sap money and resources from the larger system.

[MplsBison]

Well said.

Keeping and even expanding Mayville and VC is analogous to the small links in the chain telling the big links what to do.

Mayville and VC should be JC's in the same vein as Bismark, Williston, and Wahpeton. Minot and Dickinson should be teaching schools/liberal arts 4 years with no master's programs and no research. Maybe close down Lake Reigon and Bottineau but otherwise keep them as two year. Then NDSU and UND of course are the doctoral research centers.

[jimdahl]

[url="http://www.grandforksherald.com/articles/index.cfm?id=23567

[mj3und]

Well said.

Keeping and even expanding Mayville and VC is analogous to the small links in the chain telling the big links what to do.

Mayville and VC should be JC's in the same vein as Bismark, Williston, and Wahpeton. Minot and Dickinson should be teaching schools/liberal arts 4 years with no master's programs and no research. Maybe close down Lake Reigon and Bottineau but otherwise keep them as two year. Then NDSU and UND of course are the doctoral research centers.

Why would it make sense to close down Bottineau. Because it is in a samll community with an enrollment around 600? These are not good enough reasons for me. MSU-Bottineau has several ciriculums in horticulture, forestry, wildlife management, water technology that are not available in other universities in ND. They also have a nursing program that many rural students take remotely. Another issue involves the the financial stability of the college. To my knowledge the school is managed very well and is not having finanacial issues as Mayville is facing. I do also agree with previous statements that closing ofr these schools would be devistating to these communitites. Most of the small colleges are well supported by the community to help ensure their survival. The discussion of closing these schools has been ongoing for 20 plus years and I personally don't see it happening any time soon.

[The Sicatoka]

Just because that's the way it's always been is not a reason to maintain status quo.

Programs can be moved to other schools.

UND has well established distance education (only accredited distance learning engineering degree programs in the country). Nursing at Bottineau could go to UND, as could water technology (through UND's EERC).

Horticulture, wildlife and forestry seem to fit NDSU's mission. Move those there.

This state has 11 public colleges for 640,000 people. It's too much. Combine that with today's technology (on-line learning, UND distance education) and there's no need for a college in every other town.

Yes, this would seriously hurt Bottineau, and Devils Lake (Lake Region), and Mayville, and Valley City, and Williston. I'd take the last step and close Wahpeton too (one tech school in Bismarck with outreach space for the remaining campuses). But reality right now says we're subsidizing those towns with schools and we have an older, and older population trying to do it.

At first I'd say spend the money that was used on the campuses in those towns trying to spur economic growth there. But long-term those towns need to either do right things to survive or face the choices made.

Over the long term, "constitutionally mandated" or not, some of the schools in this ND need to be closed for the fiscal health of the whole system and state.

PS - I have direct relatives who graduated from 3 of the 6 schools I'd close. Don't think I wouldn't get punished for my plan.

[mj3und]

Just because that's the way it's always been is not a reason to maintain status quo.

Programs can be moved to other schools.

UND has well established distance education (only accredited distance learning engineering degree programs in the country). Nursing at Bottineau could go to UND, as could water technology (through UND's EERC).

Horticulture, wildlife and forestry seem to fit NDSU's mission. Move those there.

This state has 11 public colleges for 640,000 people. It's too much. Combine that with today's technology (on-line learning, UND distance education) and there's no need for a college in every other town.

Yes, this would seriously hurt Bottineau, and Devils Lake (Lake Region), and Mayville, and Valley City, and Williston. I'd take the last step and close Wahpeton too (one tech school in Bismarck with outreach space for the remaining campuses). But reality right now says we're subsidizing those towns with schools and we have an older, and older population trying to do it.

At first I'd say spend the money that was used on the campuses in those towns trying to spur economic growth there. But long-term those towns need to either do right things to survive or face the choices made.

Over the long term, "constitutionally mandated" or not, some of the schools in this ND need to be closed for the fiscal health of the whole system and state.

PS - I have direct relatives who graduated from 3 of the 6 schools I'd close. Don't think I wouldn't get punished for my plan.

The problem with this solution is not just the financial impact on these communities but also the financial impact on the students and their families. Many students are able to stay close to home, earn 2 years of education (toward a 4 year degree) and do so at a significant savings in comparison to attending UND or NDSU. The demographics at a school such as Bottineu's is significantly comprised of small town ND students and Canadian students. Many of these students are not prepared to attend a large university and would not be as successful in the large university setting. Myself for example, I attended Bottineau for 2 years and received an AS degree (while figuring out whayt I wanted to do) and did so basically for no cost. I was then able to attend UND and graduate with an engineering degree. Worked very well for me and my family. Your plan does not allow that to happen as easily fanancially. So maybe the result is a loss of students?? Just something to ponder.