Alerus vs. the Ralph

[The Sicatoka]

bisonguy: Are you including Fargo's beloved "special assessments" in your numbers? Are the GF folks? There one key difference here: Fargo special assesses just about every project. GF tends to budget for new major streets over the entire city in the overall budget. (The merits of each approach can be debated to the end of time.) Ask the right person in Fargo and their taxes are low; ask the wrong person, near a major street being redone, and they nearly cry.

And no, the money for Bison lockers wasn't in place. Initially, NDSU asked Fargo to pay for the locker rooms and to pay Fargo back in installments over time. I'm not sure what the plan is now.

And let's do a simple "reality check" here:

UND and The Alerus Center are renegotiating the contract for use of the facility. UND wants lower fees and a cut of concessions. Alerus doesn't want to give up anything the current deal gives them. Does Alerus crying "poverty" right now really surprise anyone? Dare I say "tactic" in the negotiations?

[The Sicatoka]

Here's a link to the story in the GF Herald.

Key points:

- Alerus asking for $250k as a line-of-credit for concert coverage. The City of GF had already budgeted that money (actually more) for promotions of Alerus and the Canad Inn (as part of the Canad deal). "It acts like a line of credit," Alerus Center Commissioner Evenson said. "We'll take the money and go get concerts, and when the shows make a profit, we'll pay it back."

- Alerus revenues are about $450,000 under projections. However, its actual net-income loss for the second quarter of the year is almost exactly what it was at the same time last year. Last year ended about "break even".

- Alerus Center that would give Fighting Sioux football a bigger presence. It could cost an estimated $287,000 and would be paid for under a cost-share plan that includes the Alerus Center, UND, the city and private sponsors and donations. I believe a review of FargoDome books will show a similar approach was used for Bison signage there.

- Contract negotiations with UND continued. Under the current three-year contract, UND pays the Alerus Center $17,500 per game, not counting playoff games. The Alerus Center keeps revenue from concessions.

I couldn't find the Alerus Center commission having to fire the Center's director for mishandling funds.

[Goon]

Here's a link to the story in the GF Herald.

Key points:

- Alerus asking for $250k as a line-of-credit for concert coverage. The City of GF had already budgeted that money (actually more) for promotions of Alerus and the Canad Inn (as part of the Canad deal). "It acts like a line of credit," Alerus Center Commissioner Evenson said. "We'll take the money and go get concerts, and when the shows make a profit, we'll pay it back."

- Alerus revenues are about $450,000 under projections. However, its actual net-income loss for the second quarter of the year is almost exactly what it was at the same time last year. Last year ended about "break even".

- Alerus Center that would give Fighting Sioux football a bigger presence. It could cost an estimated $287,000 and would be paid for under a cost-share plan that includes the Alerus Center, UND, the city and private sponsors and donations. I believe a review of FargoDome books will show a similar approach was used for Bison signage there.

- Contract negotiations with UND continued. Under the current three-year contract, UND pays the Alerus Center $17,500 per game, not counting playoff games. The Alerus Center keeps revenue from concessions.

I couldn't find the Alerus Center commission having to fire the Center's director for mishandling funds.

Sica, does that mean that my property taxes are going up again. Also, do we get to vote on this?

[UND92,96]

Property taxes- My in-laws that live in GF, who have similar priced homes as myself, pay 50-75% more in property taxes than I do in Fargo.  I would not consider that "just about as well". Where does this extra revenue go? It surely doesn't go for snow removal in GF. 

I believe this is patently false. All property tax info is available on the internet, and I did a little research on the issue. Any discrepancy between taxes in the two cities of that magnitude would ONLY be in a situation where the Fargo property was in an older neighborhood with no remaining specials, and the "comparable" GF property was in a neighborhood with specials remaining.

For example, a $120,000 home in Fargo in an older neighborhood has a consolidated tax amount of $2625. A comparable property in GF would have a consolidated tax amount of $2775. Whether $150 is substantial or not is a subjective thing, but I certainly wouldn't move based upon a savings in that amount.

For newer homes with significant specials remaining, a $190,000 home in Fargo would have a consolidated tax amount of $4160, PLUS specials with a yearly installment of $1840. A comparable home in GF would have a consolidated tax amount of $4435, plus specials in the yearly amount of $990. I don't know whether these specials are typical of a new Fargo neighborhood or not, but in any event, it would appear that it's quite possible that when factoring in specials, it may actually cost more in taxes for a new Fargo home than a new GF home, despite the fact that the consolidated amount of taxes is a little higher in GF.

[The Sicatoka]

Sica, does that mean that my property taxes are going up again. Also, do we get to vote on this?

Goon:

It was already in the budget, thus, there's nothing new because of this.

However, everyone's taxes always seem to go up everywhere for whatever reason.

[Local Boy]

Sica,

Thanks for referencing the Herald story. That clears thing up. (Sarcasm)

Yikes!

[The Sicatoka]

For newer homes with significant specials remaining, a $190,000 home in Fargo would have a consolidated tax amount of $4160, PLUS specials with a yearly installment of $1840. A comparable home in GF would have a consolidated tax amount of $4435, plus specials in the yearly amount of $990. I don't know whether these specials are typical of a new Fargo neighborhood or not, but in any event, it would appear that it's quite possible that when factoring in specials, it may actually cost more in taxes for a new Fargo home than a new GF home, despite the fact that the consolidated amount of taxes is a little higher in GF.

Fargo special assessments for new brand new neighborhoods are running about $250 per linear foot of frontage. (Some in the new Osgood development could approach $400 per foot.)

If you have an 80 foot lot, that's $20000 you have to pay off over 15 years. Figuring 5% interest and 1/15 of the principal and you're looking at $2333 in just specials on the lot the first year and roughly the same for each of the following 14 years. Yes, just for the lot. Put your house on it and you pay the assessed value of that in consolidated taxes, in addition to the example $2333 for the lot.

Your numbers seem reasonable.

[The Sicatoka]

Sica,

Thanks for referencing the Herald story.  That clears thing up.  (Sarcasm)

Yikes!

The sales tax to pay for FargoDome was supposed to "sunset" when it was paid for. It's paid for, yet the tax lives on.

Everyone seems to get nailed.

See what I said to 'Goon': "... everyone's taxes always seem to go up everywhere for whatever reason."

[bisonguy]

UND92,96

Maybe the in-laws in GF had specials that they didn't realize they were paying??? .

The Sicatoka,

The money was/is in place for the locker rooms. Soon after it was announced that NDSU might have to pay for the construction costs, a donor was willing to foot the bill on NDSU's behalf.

[UND92,96]

UND92,96

Maybe the in-laws in GF had specials that they didn't realize they were paying??? .

If you're interested, you can research it here.

[bisonguy]

If you're interested, you can research it here.

Thanks

[The Sicatoka]

The money was/is in place for the locker rooms. Soon after it was announced that NDSU might have to pay for the construction costs, a donor was willing to foot the bill on NDSU's behalf.

NDSU's lockers at FargoDome:

- Put a plan out there for a feature upgrade for tenant in a domed stadium

- Find the money to implement it along the way

Sounds like:

Alerus Center would give Fighting Sioux football a bigger presence. It could cost an estimated $287,000 and would be paid for under a cost-share plan that includes the Alerus Center, UND, the city and private sponsors and donations.

[SiouxMeNow]

maybe you could offer a discount for SOMEONE to buy those crappy, RETROFITTED, "oops we had to steal some seats from legit season ticket holders", SUITES at the "barn"!! - nice try guys....I guess Irv is having about at much luck peddling them as he is selling the "NAMING RIGHTS" to a place that's already had a NAME for 10 years....

How's it feel to be a decade too late on everything??? OOOPPPPSS!!! Forgot you VOTED DOWN DI HOCKEY!!!!

[Local Boy]

SiouxMeNow, you kill me. Explain to me the benefit of owning the naming rights of an unsuccessful property. They made a deal based on speculation. It's not workin' out. Life's a bitch.

Don't snap. I love your posts. Especially the late night entries evidently.

Keep it up!

[star2city]

A 3-D artist rendering of the Alerus hotel complex is now available here:

http://www.canadinns.com/grandforks/

[jimdahl]

More on the Alerus Center's financial state:

Grand Forks' Alerus Center is deeper in the red this year than anticipated, managers told city officials Wednesday morning at the meeting of the center's commission.

In the year-to-date, the center has lost $268,000 compared to the budgeted loss of $72,000.

This causes some concern for commissioner Randy Newman, the head of the group's finance committee. Newman demanded Compass Facility Management, the Alerus Center's management firm, come up with a plan to rectify the situation.

[Let'sGoHawks!]

I don't live in GF anymore. I like keeping up with the old town. The Canad Inn 3D thing was neat. Are there any pictures or other depictions of the area around The Ralph such as the new businesses and the new townhomes? I'd appreciate anything!

Thanks

[star2city]

I don't live in GF anymore.  I like keeping up with the old town.  The Canad Inn 3D thing was neat.  Are there any pictures or other depictions of the area around The Ralph such as the new businesses and the new townhomes?  I'd appreciate anything!

Thanks

Pictured here, University_Village , is the mini-mall that is already built and occupied. Future developments will also be consistent with the Ralph's motif.

On http://www.innovators.net/ , the web-site for UND's entrepreneurial center, there is this description of the nearby new sports bar, 23 Sports Grill, and its developer, Andrew Olson:

Andrew is a native of Grafton, ND and is a recent graduate of Arizona State in Economics. His parents are grain and row crop farmers near Grafton and raise buffalo. When he was in Arizona, and right after graduation he helped an entrepreneur start two Boston Pizza franchises in Albuquerque, NM and Colorado Springs, CO.  He earned some equity in those franchises.  He has secured a Dakota Student Entrepreneur Loan to help start his venture, which is provided thanks to Bart and Lynn Holaday through their Dakota Foundation.  The 23 Sports Grill has a $1.7M development budget and will be located directly north of Ralph Engelstad Arena’s front lobby.  The 7000 square feet upscale sports bar is scheduled to open October 22.

The Herald recently said it would open right before the World Juniors. Not sure why it is called '23', but I believe a business intent is to use this location as the flagship site and franchise future locations. If successful, this would make this businees much more lucrative than allowing an existing sports bar concept from out of town to move in.

[pirate]

I am thinking the name "23", is being used as that was Ralph Engelstad's uniform number when He was a UND goaltender.

[nodakvindy]

Franchising sounds interesting, although in most of the rest of the world, a place called the 23 Sports Grille doesn't conjure up the image of Ralph Engelstad.

[bigmrg74]

It would be of another athlete that also wore the number 23 in college. Number 23, from North Carolina.......

[star2city]

Franchising sounds interesting, although in most of the rest of the world, a place called the 23 Sports Grille doesn't conjure up the image of Ralph Engelstad.

Have to agree on that one. But perhaps there is a licensing arrangement from the Ralph.

From this article in the Herald, it's seems clear that the Ralph's management, piece-by-piece, is putting together its vision for a sports/entertainment/exposition/ shopping center as part of the 'University Village'. In the past, the Ralph has been approached by developers interested in building an attached hotel. Once the CANAD Inn is up and running and proven, an attached 'Ralph' hotel seems like a logical step.

"The venue is versatile whereas it can accommodate other events," Semrau said. "With that, however, we're entering the first year of the facility with the emphasis on UND sports."

Semrau said the facility could play host to banquets and specialty shows. "We're not making that our first priority at this point. However, logistics are in place where we can have one event one day (at the Sioux Center) and another event the next day.

"We're not chasing events, not to say that won't happen. It's just not our priority at this time."

[dakotadan]

I don't see a hotel being built. Even thought the Betty was built without a whole lot of university input, the rest has been. The mini malls have all basically been decided who will be there by the U. The 23 Bar and Grill idea(franchise) I think is a great idea. We could have let someone like BW's (buffalo wild wings, too much ndsu implication) come in or Applebee's. I do have to add in that the CEO/VP of Buff Wild Wings is a UND graduate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is the only reasone BW's has lasted!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! However, with all of the town houses and the mini mall expansions, I cannot see UND supporting or endorsing another hotel. REA pretty much runs the show as far as what shows up for entertainment, sports events, but UND has alot, close to everything, to say as far as what shows up on the property.

[airmail]

Once the CANAD Inn is up and running and proven, an attached 'Ralph' hotel seems like a logical step.

I heard a rumor a while back that the Westward Ho complex was purchased by Engelstad. (or by one of his many holdings) If this is the case, I'm curious as to what development may rise in that area... hotel, restaurant, etc.

[Local Boy]

It's a rumor. I was told that the property will be dozed and the land sold for future development.

Local Boy