Student Behavior @ The Ralph

[Siouxdonyms]

holy s&!t

Drop the vulgar language

Give off a better representation of the University of North Dakota students!!!

You said it.

[BringDeanBack]

I am a student here at UND and I am a season ticket holder, I also did not attend the meeting, for I felt I would not be able to handle what the officials would have to say. Well after looking at the results of the meeting, I feel that we all have been fed a bunch of BS. First of all, they said they lost $300,000 a year because of us? Well, lets think back at to who is keeping this school in business here, who pays as much as three times a year to be here, yeah that is us.... It said that the non- student season ticket holders pay $550, well Im not sure about the rest of you, but Im paying about $5000 a semester to be here. I am aware that the money going to the Ralph, and the money going to the school are two different things, but we're still paying more money than the non- student ticket holders so they cant tell us that they are losing money because of us. I have been to many other college sports, and It seems to me that none of them have as much trouble with the student section as we do. I have been to sporting events that everybody in the building, not just the student section, stands for the whole game.... why is it different here? Why is it that only the students at UND get into the games, if the non- student ticket holders pay so much, they should have as much, if not more pride and spirit than the students. And lastly, last time I checked, this is college, and not high school..... I think we should be able to say anything we want, and I think its sad to hear people tell me that they would rather watch the game on tv at their own place, and they have more fun that way, than if they were at the game in person. thank you

For the 1,000th time, the argument of "I pay more tuition than a season ticket costs", holds no water. The taxpayer of North Dakota (ie season ticket holders included) pay much more to subsidize ND colleges than those tuition payments.

Also, keep students where they are at and "ENFORCE THE RULES". If students are moved to an end, the behavior will continue without enforcement. Also, moving them to the end the Sioux shoot at twice would be rewarding them for bad behavior which does not make sense. Maybe if they keep acting up, they will take over the suites next.

[ND Pride]

I am a student here at UND and I am a season ticket holder, I also did not attend the meeting, for I felt I would not be able to handle what the officials would have to say. Well after looking at the results of the meeting, I feel that we all have been fed a bunch of BS. First of all, they said they lost $300,000 a year because of us? Well, lets think back at to who is keeping this school in business here, who pays as much as three times a year to be here, yeah that is us.... It said that the non- student season ticket holders pay $550, well Im not sure about the rest of you, but Im paying about $5000 a semester to be here. I am aware that the money going to the Ralph, and the money going to the school are two different things, but we're still paying more money than the non- student ticket holders so they cant tell us that they are losing money because of us. I have been to many other college sports, and It seems to me that none of them have as much trouble with the student section as we do. I have been to sporting events that everybody in the building, not just the student section, stands for the whole game.... why is it different here? Why is it that only the students at UND get into the games, if the non- student ticket holders pay so much, they should have as much, if not more pride and spirit than the students. And lastly, last time I checked, this is college, and not high school..... I think we should be able to say anything we want, and I think its sad to hear people tell me that they would rather watch the game on tv at their own place, and they have more fun that way, than if they were at the game in person. thank you

Thanks for the insight into your perspective - let's reflect on it, some of it - as you say, "I felt I would not be able to handle what the officials would have to say." Sorry to hear that as part of being a functioning member of a society involves participation in meetings and being able to control your emotions. At least you know your limitations. Maybe you should stay away from large gatherings of people if you can't handle what might happen there (your team losing).

As you say, "who is keeping this school in business here" - well try the adult taxpayers in North Dakota. As I said in an earlier post, UND, like all public universities in North Dakota is state assisted and if it were not for that your tuition would be double or more. You can also thank the UND faculty who bring in research grants that provides overhead that supports some of the facilities you enjoy as a student. Non-student ticket holders who are UND graduates have contributed far more than you to the economics of the university. By your own figures a graduate who takes 4 years to finish has put in $40,000 and has a degree. Many students won't even graduate so those non-student ticket holders who graduated have paid far more for the priviledge of having Sioux tickets than the average student still taking classes, especially the significant percentage who will never graduate.

Your logic about pride and non-student ticket holders is hard to follow. Are you saying that they should have pride and spirit and exemplify it by using profanity as some students do?

Last time you checked this was college not high school. Well, unfortunately colleges are becoming more like high schools all the time with all the remedial courses, immature classroom behavior and poor discipline. Sporting events are one symptom of the lack of civility and self-centered immaturity of some people. As you say, "I think we should be able to say anything we want." If that is the case then why don't you try the same language in class or at a family dinner. Some rationalize the lack of civility by saying that it is a sporting event and it is ok there. Well, it is not - just because some people tend to lose their inhibitions and emotional control at an athletic contest and use profanity to express their frustration does not make it right. If you would like to learn a little bit more about fan behavior at large sporting events take some social science courses and learn about what sociologists call collective behavior.

[Nodakstud]

Thanks for the insight into your perspective - let's reflect on it, some of it - as you say, "I felt I would not be able to handle what the officials would have to say." Sorry to hear that as part of being a functioning member of a society involves participation in meetings and being able to control your emotions. At least you know your limitations. Maybe you should stay away from large gatherings of people if you can't handle what might happen there (your team losing).

As you say, "who is keeping this school in business here" - well try the adult taxpayers in North Dakota. As I said in an earlier post, UND, like all public universities in North Dakota is state assisted and if it were not for that your tuition would be double or more. You can also thank the UND faculty who bring in research grants that provides overhead that supports some of the facilities you enjoy as a student. Non-student ticket holders who are UND graduates have contributed far more than you to the economics of the university. By your own figures a graduate who takes 4 years to finish has put in $40,000 and has a degree. Many students won't even graduate so those non-student ticket holders who graduated have paid far more for the priviledge of having Sioux tickets than the average student still taking classes, especially the significant percentage who will never graduate.

Your logic about pride and non-student ticket holders is hard to follow. Are you saying that they should have pride and spirit and exemplify it by using profanity as some students do?

Last time you checked this was college not high school. Well, unfortunately colleges are becoming more like high schools all the time with all the remedial courses, immature classroom behavior and poor discipline. Sporting events are one symptom of the lack of civility and self-centered immaturity of some people. As you say, "I think we should be able to say anything we want." If that is the case then why don't you try the same language in class or at a family dinner. Some rationalize the lack of civility by saying that it is a sporting event and it is ok there. Well, it is not - just because some people tend to lose their inhibitions and emotional control at an athletic contest and use profanity to express their frustration does not make it right. If you would like to learn a little bit more about fan behavior at large sporting events take some social science courses and learn about what sociologists call collective behavior.

North Dakota Pride...I have some problems with a statement that several non-students have made here on this board. You say that North Dakota taxpayers keep UND in business and not the students. Well in the last legislative session, $309,158,467 was earmarked towards our university. That may seem like a lot, but if it was spread out over 2/3 of North Dakota's population, it comes out to exactly $772.90 per tax payer (assuming only 2/3 of ND's citizens pay taxes). That is a whole lot less than the $20,000 a UND student pays for two years of tuition (ND is on a biennial budget cycle). I agree that students should not have a total free reign on what goes on at games, but I believe that students should have the biggest say in these matters. Alumni might give a lot to the University now, but who is going to be giving large sums of money in the future. The answer to that is current and future students.

I do agree with you on the immaturity of students. I would hope that my fellow students would choose to conduct themselves with some class like most do in class and other public settings. However, I feel that students should be allowed to stand, and I find it very unfortunate that the non-students contribute so little to the atmosphere at the Ralph. Maybe if we moved back to a less comfortable venue (the old REA) people would remember that they were at a sporting event and not at some formal event.

[BigGreyAnt41]

North Dakota Pride...I have some problems with a statement that several non-students have made here on this board. You say that North Dakota taxpayers keep UND in business and not the students. Well in the last legislative session, $309,158,467 was earmarked towards our university. That may seem like a lot, but if it was spread out over 2/3 of North Dakota's population, it comes out to exactly $772.90 per tax payer (assuming only 2/3 of ND's citizens pay taxes). That is a whole lot less than the $20,000 a UND student pays for two years of tuition (ND is on a biennial budget cycle). I agree that students should not have a total free reign on what goes on at games, but I believe that students should have the biggest say in these matters. Alumni might give a lot to the University now, but who is going to be giving large sums of money in the future. The answer to that is current and future students.

You're getting and education out of the deal, the other taxpayers aren't. The argument of "students are paying tuition along with the $75 for tickets so they should get more say in things" is really getting old. It's a horrible argument that people need to stop using.

Sure, you will be an alumni someday and you will be donating money. But these alumni also were students at one point who had to pay tuition.

[Sioux-cia]

However, I feel that students should be allowed to stand, and I find it very unfortunate that the non-students contribute so little to the atmosphere at the Ralph.

10% of the student ticket holders attended the mandatory meeting. Doesn't seem the issue is that importat to the majority.

I posted these earlier and don't feel like repeating myself.

EVERY game I go to, and that is every game, I see students who are sitting in the student section whose sole reason for being there is to get drunk-guys and gals sucking those big beers down as fast as they can and getting 'em filled just as fast; to be with their honey-girls looking totally bored as their dates are watching the game AND to be seen - guys and gals looking everywhere but at the game.

So enough of this @rap about some season ticket holders only going to the games to be seen, socialize, or sit in the bar. Goes both ways!

Again as suggested, go to the meeting, hat in hand (that means respectfully, not bent over), propose alternatives and work with the AD and REA. This subject has been brought up many times and many good suggestions have been posted in the past. I remember Dirty coming up with some pretty good ones in the past. Go back to some of the old threads and check 'em out.

Standing throughout a game makes me a better fan. Geeze how ignorant of me!! I stand during breakaways, goals scored (us), scuffles and other 'exciting appropriate to stand' moments as does everyone around me; THEN I SIT DOWN. I scream, cheer, yell, sing the beer song, etc. I even say "oh $hit" when the other team scores.

What happened to the student spirit when we were losing? Where I sit, I didn't hear any students cheering on the team. And when I looked over at the student section, you were all sitting looking like mommy had just taken your blankie away. The 'old farts' around me, me too, were clapping, and trying to start up the 'GO SIOUX' chant. When the gopher fans were out cheering us, I tried to get things going, NOTHING from the student section. Don't try to tell me the students cheer the team on when we're losing. Usually DOESN"T HAPPEN!!

[SiouxPride0303]

North Dakota Pride...I have some problems with a statement that several non-students have made here on this board. You say that North Dakota taxpayers keep UND in business and not the students. Well in the last legislative session, $309,158,467 was earmarked towards our university. That may seem like a lot, but if it was spread out over 2/3 of North Dakota's population, it comes out to exactly $772.90 per tax payer (assuming only 2/3 of ND's citizens pay taxes). That is a whole lot less than the $20,000 a UND student pays for two years of tuition (ND is on a biennial budget cycle). I agree that students should not have a total free reign on what goes on at games, but I believe that students should have the biggest say in these matters. Alumni might give a lot to the University now, but who is going to be giving large sums of money in the future. The answer to that is current and future students.

I do agree with you on the immaturity of students. I would hope that my fellow students would choose to conduct themselves with some class like most do in class and other public settings. However, I feel that students should be allowed to stand, and I find it very unfortunate that the non-students contribute so little to the atmosphere at the Ralph. Maybe if we moved back to a less comfortable venue (the old REA) people would remember that they were at a sporting event and not at some formal event.

And tax-paying North Dakota residents that are also students pay not only tuition but the taxes AND the student ticket...so whats your point? That I should have gotten even more special treatment because I qualified as a tax-paying, school attending North Dakota citizen?

The argument doesn't work.

[Diggler]

This meeting was rather short notice, so I would think that would be at least partially responsible for the low attendance. The main reason for the low turnout was probably how students felt the meeting would just have been a stern lecture, but the short notice played at least a small part. Still the turnout sounds rather pathetic. I think UND should schedule another meeting in a couple of weeks and give more notice for it, where they can discuss things that can be done to improve student behavior and atmosphere. Then at the end of the year have another meeting to further these discussions. One meeting on rather short notice that is mainly about what the students shouldn't be doing at games, won't help improve what everyone ultimately wants and it might not even eliminate the problem that the meeting was called for in the first place.

[Sioux-cia]

This meeting was rather short notice, so I would think that would be at least partially responsible for the low attendance. The main reason for the low turnout was probably how students felt the meeting would just have been a stern lecture, but the short notice played at least a small part. Still the turnout sounds rather pathetic. I think UND should schedule another meeting in a couple of weeks and give more notice for it, where they can discuss things that can be done to improve student behavior and atmosphere. Then at the end of the year have another meeting to further these discussions. One meeting on rather short notice that is mainly about what the students shouldn't be doing at games, won't help improve what everyone ultimately wants and it might not even eliminate the problem that the meeting was called for in the first place.

Dirty, were you at the meeting? Was it all one sided? Did the students get to speak? If they didn't, that su@ks. I agree there has to be more than one meeting.

[Diggler]

I'm in Fargo, so no I didn't go to the meeting. Prepare yourself.......I mean it.......Seriously.....I'm not kidding....You better sit down for this....I'm not a student anymore.

I still have student tickets though, so I'm hoping I can still get into the games.

[Sioux-cia]

I'm in Fargo, so no I didn't go to the meeting. Prepare yourself.......I mean it.......Seriously.....I'm not kidding....You better sit down for this....I'm not a student anymore.

I still have student tickets though, so I'm hoping I can still get into the games.

WHOA!!! Did you graduate?

[Sioux-cia]

Are you ok? Are you adjusting to being on the outside? Do you need a suport group?

[Diggler]

I graduated 2 1/2 years ago. I'd simply been taking one class a semester for the past couple years.

****For those of you students who think this whole deal and UND in general is screwing you over, just do this after you graduate. Believe me, it works. You get a kick butt seat and all you have to do is take a one credit class each semester. Screw UND back! They hosed you, hose em back!

[82SiouxGuy]

First of all, they said they lost $300,000 a year because of us? Well, lets think back at to who is keeping this school in business here, who pays as much as three times a year to be here, yeah that is us.... It said that the non- student season ticket holders pay $550, well Im not sure about the rest of you, but Im paying about $5000 a semester to be here. I am aware that the money going to the Ralph, and the money going to the school are two different things, but we're still paying more money than the non- student ticket holders so they cant tell us that they are losing money because of us.

Your tuition money is paying for your education. You would pay that whether we had sports or not at UND. It will, hopefully, give you a better future. You can't count that toward your cost of going to hockey games. And as several other people have pointed out, the people of North Dakota subsidize your tuition which lower your costs without them getting a direct benefit. The money for hockey tickets goes through the REA with profits going to the athletic department. If REA sold the 2,000 student tickets at $300 instead of $75 it would bring in an additional $600,000 per year. They would probably have higher costs involved in selling tickets which would bring us close to the $300,00 they quoted.

I have been to many other college sports, and It seems to me that none of them have as much trouble with the student section as we do. I have been to sporting events that everybody in the building, not just the student section, stands for the whole game.... why is it different here? Why is it that only the students at UND get into the games, if the non- student ticket holders pay so much, they should have as much, if not more pride and spirit than the students. And lastly, last time I checked, this is college, and not high school..... I think we should be able to say anything we want, and I think its sad to hear people tell me that they would rather watch the game on tv at their own place, and they have more fun that way, than if they were at the game in person. thank you

I have been to a lot of other venues where they don't stand for the entire game. You don't have to stand to be involved in the game. Many non-students have as much pride and spirit as the students or more, yet don't want to stand the entire game. And yes this is college. College students are usually at least 18 years old and considered adults. So act like adults. Most adults don't spend a lot of time swearing in public places, especially in group chants. Most adults show respect for others around them. And a lot of adults try to set a good example for others, especially children.

No one is asking the students to act like this is church or study hall. Stand when appropriate instead of all the time and yell any of the thousands of words you know that aren't profane. I don't see where this is asking for a huge commitment from the students.

[dlsiouxfan]

Last time you checked this was college not high school. Well, unfortunately colleges are becoming more like high schools all the time with all the remedial courses, immature classroom behavior and poor discipline. Sporting events are one symptom of the lack of civility and self-centered immaturity of some people. As you say, "I think we should be able to say anything we want." If that is the case then why don't you try the same language in class or at a family dinner. Some rationalize the lack of civility by saying that it is a sporting event and it is ok there. Well, it is not - just because some people tend to lose their inhibitions and emotional control at an athletic contest and use profanity to express their frustration does not make it right. If you would like to learn a little bit more about fan behavior at large sporting events take some social science courses and learn about what sociologists call collective behavior.

I'm sorry if this is off topic but I have some issues with your statement that college is becoming more and more like high school every day. Feel free to enlighten me but how so. Academic requirements are significantly higher at almost every university. The average cost of college has reached a level where pretty much every student will have to work job while attending school. To me a person working a job, while at the same time attending a university doesn't compare very well to your average high schooler. Your comment about immature classroom behavior is also quite offbase. I've attended many classes here at UND the last few years and I can't really say I've ever seen anything I'd call immature classroom behavior.

[BigGreyAnt41]

Your comment about immature classroom behavior is also quite offbase. I've attended many classes here at UND the last few years and I can't really say I've ever seen anything I'd call immature classroom behavior.

I have also attended many classes here at UND the last few years, and it seems no matter what level of class I am in (short of some 400 level classes) there are always immature students who complain about everything. Whether it's taking notes, doing homework, or just coming to class, they constantly complain as if they are being asked to do something unreasonable.

When you are in college, you should realize before hand that you will be needing to attend class and have to do homework for your classes.

As for immature classroom behavior, I don't think it matters what level class you are in, there will always be people fooling around in class, not paying attention, talking to friends, and whatever else they can do to not pay attention, including playing games on their laptops.

I sometimes think everybody should get thrown into "the real world" before coming to college so they mature a bit.

[SiouxPride0303]

I have also attended many classes here at UND the last few years, and it seems no matter what level of class I am in (short of some 400 level classes) there are always immature students who complain about everything. Whether it's taking notes, doing homework, or just coming to class, they constantly complain as if they are being asked to do something unreasonable.

When you are in college, you should realize before hand that you will be needing to attend class and have to do homework for your classes.

As for immature classroom behavior, I don't think it matters what level class you are in, there will always be people fooling around in class, not paying attention, talking to friends, and whatever else they can do to not pay attention, including playing games on their laptops.

I sometimes think everybody should get thrown into "the real world" before coming to college so they mature a bit.

Believe it or not, it still occurs at the graduate level as well.

[WiSioux]

Dirty, were you at the meeting? Was it all one sided? Did the students get to speak? If they didn't, that su@ks. I agree there has to be more than one meeting.

"No one is asking the students to act like this is church or study hall."

Two things... first, yes, the student did get to speak a little. At first Buning just talked to us about what we could and could not do (ie stand, swear, act like drunk fools) but then they went to a question and answer format. For the most part the questions revolved around the number of seats that students have... which makes no sense, because we will never get more. I think my favorite question about standing came from a girl who wanted to know why we couldn't stand even though the school song says "Stand up and cheer..."

Second... they actually did use the comparison to church with profanity... I believe they said that if it can't be said in church, it shouldn't be said here either.. but don't quote me on that

[BringDeanBack]

And tax-paying North Dakota residents that are also students pay not only tuition but the taxes AND the student ticket...so whats your point? That I should have gotten even more special treatment because I qualified as a tax-paying, school attending North Dakota citizen?

The argument doesn't work.

Actually, your argument does not work. If you are a student, and working, chances are you are not making much money and hence not paying much money in state tax. However, many of the season ticket holders have steady salaries and many are even business owners. This means that they are paying considerably more in state tax than the students are.

On a side note, many of the students that I have come in contact with pay for part of their college with loans, loans that are subsidized by the Federal taxpayer (which includes season ticket holders).

Students are needed at games. If they would only stand during a goal or a big hit (and not the whole game) there would be no problem.

[Sioux-cia]

Second... they actually did use the comparison to church with profanity... I believe they said that if it can't be said in church, it shouldn't be said here either.. but don't quote me on that

I believe the AD said he'd 'like' or 'could' to say if you can't say it in church...but then he seemd to laugh it off. That was a part of what was televised on on the news.

[Goon]

I am a student here at UND and I am a season ticket holder, I also did not attend the meeting, for I felt I would not be able to handle what the officials would have to say. Well after looking at the results of the meeting, I feel that we all have been fed a bunch of BS. First of all, they said they lost $300,000 a year because of us?

This is the perspective of his generation. They think they are entitled to act like morons and nothing should be done to them, no one takes any personal responsibility anymore. This generation doesnt care and they think they are ENTITLED to do what ever they feeling doing in the stands, eff the person that paid 20,000 to 40,000 for their suite, I am going to school here. This is my college I pay tution. The sad reality is that they are the ones that are going to be paying your retirement after you have retired if there is still social security when you retire. So you beter save for your retirement. Its only going to get worse.

I think I will rescind my idea of having them sit where UND shoots twice I have a better idea. Maybe we should put a huge television screen outside where they can watch the game they we can let the say all of the eff bombs that they want while not being able to offend anyone in the crowd.

Edited January 19, 2006 by Goon

[SiouxPride0303]

Actually, your argument does not work. If you are a student, and working, chances are you are not making much money and hence not paying much money in state tax. However, many of the season ticket holders have steady salaries and many are even business owners. This means that they are paying considerably more in state tax than the students are.

On a side note, many of the students that I have come in contact with pay for part of their college with loans, loans that are subsidized by the Federal taxpayer (which includes season ticket holders).

Students are needed at games. If they would only stand during a goal or a big hit (and not the whole game) there would be no problem.

I was agreeing that the argument that students pay more does not work, no matter how you spin it.

And Goon, I agree. It is a very strong sense of entitlement for anything. Its unfortunate.

[Diggler]

So when you were all 18 and 19, you liked it when 45-60 year olds were telling you what you could and could not do? You enjoyed feeeling you were being bossed around? I doubt it. When you are 18 or 19, I think you were just like 18 or 19 year old ares now. You had a sense of entitlement, it was all about you. And if you weren't, why make the generalization that all students are now? Because all students certainly aren't. Students nowadays could say many things about your generation that aren't neccessarily totally true.

[CoteauRinkRat]

Second... they actually did use the comparison to church with profanity... I believe they said that if it can't be said in church, it shouldn't be said here either.. but don't quote me on that

The only thing I want to add to this discussion is if we are going to hold the students to these standards, than everyone in the arena should be held to the same level of standards. The profanity heard from my section of non-students is really bad on some nights.

[The Sicatoka]

I saw a well-spoken young lady interviewed by KVLY TV-11 last night. (KFGO ran the audio during the morning news also.) She gave her view well, but was in error on a key point: The students of my generation (The Hrkac Circus era), and those before us, did not stand for the entire game, even when we had the entire east half of the old Engelstad Arena.

As to the POV of "Hollywood": I'm a UND alumnus. I paid my tuition. I have my degrees. (Yes, plural.) I also have my North Dakota tax forms on the desk at home now too. And my bill for my season hockey tickets is in the receipt drawer as is my receipt for a donation to the UND Alumni Association and Foundation this year. UND is an enterprise that we all work together to make work: students, alumni, taxpayers, and friends and other contributors. You'd be outraged if I dared to say UND wouldn't be without me, yet you dare claim it.

As far as the alcohol consumption: Public drunkeness is against the law in ND. (Note the period.) I don't care who you are.

When it came to language, Buning said he'd like language like in church; but he also said something about not being that naive. (Whew! )

And this "stay home concept" hits on a a key point: One side says stay home in your living room if you want to watch the game. However, the other side believes that the student section is their living room at home and that they can do whatever they want; however, it's not their living room. What you do in your living room at home is your business. When you are in public, as in a public building on a university campus, the rules of public courtesy come into play. Want a simple example: Try standing up in front of folks in a movie theatre, even watching "Miracle" or "Rocky".