Spirit Lake withdraws support for logo

[jimdahl]

When's the last time Kupchella had a pow-wow with any of the state's tribes?

A fine question, and one a few of us have been asking. The Spirit Lake resolution of support did specifically stipulate an ongoing dialog with the tribes, and the withdrawal of support cites the lack of such as a primary reason. I haven't heard any details about what contacts the University had with the tribes after the resolution of support but before this NCAA rule created a new incentive.

As I mentioned previously, if UND does keep the name, I hope they take this as a "teachable moment" and work to establish that sort of relationship and dialog after the dust settles.

[MafiaMan]

[jojordan23]

UND has no mascot. If the Spirit Lake Nation doesn't refer to itself as "Sioux" why do they oppose the nickname?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have been asking this question for the past 7 years! Not one person, not even a nickname opponent can answer this one for me!

[CoteauRinkRat]

When's the last time Kupchella had a pow-wow with any of the state's tribes?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Great choice of words.

[PCM]

When's the last time Kupchella had a pow-wow with any of the state's tribes?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't know the answer to that question, but in his open letter to the NCAA, he speaks of traveling to the reservations around the state. How often he does this, I can't say. I can, however, say that I did run into Kupchella once a few years ago while he was visiting the Turtle Mountain Reservation.

EDIT: I was also told this past spring that Kupchella had lunch once a week at American Indian Student Services. I was invited to one of the lunches, but was unable to attend.

Edited September 1, 2005 by PCM

[GrahamKracker]

I have been asking this question for the past 7 years! Not one person, not even a nickname opponent can answer this one for me!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When will you people ever get it through your thick skulls? The name SIOUX is the name used when referring to the L/D/N nation. Some people call themselves Sioux, others will call themselves Lakota, Dakota, Nakota.

But regardless of that issue, there would still be this INDIAN LOGO that is in place. Even if the SIOUX Nation didn't call themselves SIOUX, and UND used it, we'd all still know who the hell they are talking about, with that obnoxious logo. Of course if your reading this, your trying to come up w/ defensive comments rather than see that the question you are asking is not answering anything, just trying to cover up a bigger problem.

[dagies]

...with that obnoxious logo. 

Why would an American Indian create an "obnoxious logo" for UND to use?

[ScottM]

Of course if your reading this, your trying to come up w/ defensive comments rather than see that the question you are asking is not answering anything, just trying to cover up a bigger problem.

"You're" pretty amusing when you attempt the use of logic.

[GrahamKracker]

[IowaBison]

Great choice of words.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's used correctly:

Pow-wow: A council or meeting with or of Native Americans.

[IowaBison]

I don't know the answer to that question, but in his open letter to the NCAA, he speaks of traveling to the reservations around the state. How often he does this, I can't say. I can, however, say that I did run into Kupchella once a few years ago while he was visiting the Turtle Mountain Reservation.

EDIT: I was also told this past spring that Kupchella had lunch once a week at American Indian Student Service. I was invited to one of the lunches, but was unable to attend.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for the info.

[HockeyMom]

When will you people ever get it through your thick skulls?  The name SIOUX is the name used when referring to the L/D/N nation.  Some people call themselves Sioux, others will call themselves Lakota, Dakota, Nakota.

But regardless of that issue, there would still be this INDIAN LOGO that is in place.  Even if the SIOUX Nation didn't call themselves SIOUX, and UND used it, we'd all still know who the hell they are talking about, with that obnoxious logo.  Of course if your reading this, your trying to come up w/ defensive comments rather than see that the question you are asking is not answering anything, just trying to cover up a bigger problem.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Dakota Nation said that they don't refer to themselves as Sioux in the WDAZ news clip, I believe that they are also putting it in their new resolution. Our questions are legitimate, you're just using it as another excuse to not have to answer them. You have said numerous times that this issue doesn't matter unless the Native Americans speaking out are Sioux/Dakota/Lakota/Nakota, and now it's all Native Americans? What you have said over and over is that the only Native American opinions that count are the ones that agree with you. Everyone else is a moron.

Would you please answer my question that I asked you several weeks ago?

For what reason/reasons did you choose the University of North Dakota to further your education?

[ScottM]

A SIOUX Indian wouldn't, anyways. You have to remember, back in the day the Chippewa and Sioux weren't the best of friends, now THEY are designing logos of US? That's an embarrassment in itself. Where is he at among all of these discussions. Oh wait, he took the money and ran (what little money they gave him, anyways)

Considering how many Ojibwa/Chippewa apologists, e.g., the Bellecourt brothers, Jeanotte, etc. are "offended" for you and your white, liberal "friends", you should be getting their water for them. Now that's an "embarrassment".

[Doc Holliday]

A SIOUX Indian wouldn't, anyways.  You have to remember, back in the day the Chippewa and Sioux weren't the best of friends, now THEY are designing logos of US?  That's an embarrassment in itself.  Where is he at among all of these discussions.  Oh wait, he took the money and ran (what little money they gave him, anyways)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think there are a lot bigger injustices in the world than a Chippewa designing a Sioux logo, wouldn't you? But if you want to hang your hat on that, go ahead!

If the name gets changed, what will that change? Will all your problems suddenly disappear? My guess is you'll just switch gears and find the next thing to be offended by!

GrahamKracker seems to be the type of person that would complain if he was in Heaven!!

[mikejm]

Thank you iramurphy, for so elegantly and pointedly exposing gk for what he is. I've spent most of my life among and alongside Native Americans in both Minnesota and North Dakota. I watched them collectively squander opportunity after opportunity; the tribes have been recipients of some of this nation's most generous grants and gifts, and yet the continue to languish in poverty, dependence and hopelessness.

There are, obviously, exceptions. Some fairly close native friends of mine have taken advantage of public and private largesse to obtain advanced degrees and to come "home" to serve their people in constructive and positive ways. They understand the ruinous treadmill on which their people are stuck, and are working very hard to try to end generations-old harmful habits.

I've had many, many heartfelt conversations with these friends, reveling in their successes and trying to encourage them to continue in spite of the frustrations and setbacks they encounter every day. Most often, the roadblocks to their success are not "whitey", but rather their fellow tribal members; people just like grahamcracker.

GK embodies all that is wrong with how we as a nation have responded to the native population for over a hundred years. Obviously there were grave wrongs perpetrated on the tribes by our forefathers. The reservations are wrong and should be an embarassment to both white and native leaders.

We've continued to throw dollar after dollar into these money pits, "buying off" either our guilty consciences or the tribal squeaky wheels who cry the loudest. Faced with rampant social disease and political misdeeds, we've refused to require responsibility and accountability among the tribes themselves. Instead we send more money, which all too often is squandered, both within the federal bureaucracy and tribal officialdom.

When an institution like the University invests time, talent and capital in attempting to help Native Americans escape this century-old trap, we do see scattered success. But all too often we're instead slapped in the face with renewed cries of racism and demands for even more money to undo the deeds of years gone by.

GK and people like him are not interested in truly making life better for their native families. They know as long as they dredge up another example of alleged wrongs foisted upon them or their elders, someone out there will find another pile of money to throw at the "problem" without ever dealing with the underlying shortcomings.

GK is not a builder of a better tomorrow; he is an agitator who understands his negative attitude will keep the gravy train running. It is far easier for him to continue to complain about whatever happened 30, or 50 or 100 years ago and stay on the receiving end of a pipeline full to the brim with money than it is to adopt a positive attitude and try to change things for the better. There is no tomorrow for GK and his ilk; at least there is no financial reward for thinking about tomorrow. It is easier to continue to wallow in self-pity, spew racist rhetoric and milk the collective guilt of a wealthy nation. And that is, by definition, tragedy by any measure.

[oldralph]

A SIOUX Indian wouldn't, anyways.

[NorthDakotaHockey]

. . . .

If the name gets changed, what will that change?  Will all your problems suddenly disappear?  My guess is you'll just switch gears and find the next thing to be offended by!

GrahamKracker seems to be the type of person that would complain if he was in Heaven!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey GK . . . . To make sure that you are not soon without cause, and in need of a new needle for your voodoo dolls, what say you and your friends gear it up to go after the Boy Scouts and the Cub Scouts for all of their imagery and ceremonial recognitions of the influence of the native ways of life on their scouting programs.

Nice big target. Soft underbelly. Perfect. Gotta keep active with your activism as an activist.

[Fetch]

Never thought of these as Abusive or Hostile ?

[PCM]

There is no tomorrow for GK and his ilk; at least there is no financial reward for thinking about tomorrow. It is easier to continue to wallow in self-pity, spew racist rhetoric and milk the collective guilt of a wealthy nation. And that is, by definition, tragedy by any measure.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Great post, Mike. I totally agree, although you will probably be labeled a "hostile and abusive" racist for speaking the truth.

[Fetch]

[PCM]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Does this mean that UND will soon be known as Fork U?

[MafiaMan]

Never thought of these as Abusive or Hostile ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hwy 85 & 200? Killdeer/Belfield/Watford City area? Nice work!

[IowaBison]

Once again, change the moniker to the North Dakota Highway Patrol and the University is in the clear.

[PCM]

Once again, change the moniker to the North Dakota Highway Patrol and the University is in the clear.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The University is "in the clear" now.

[Fetch]

This is interesting http://www.state.nd.us/ndhp/history.html

with the signing of the treaty of Minehanska, all acts of hostility between whites and Indians were to be forgiven and forgotten. Red Tomahawk, the hostels' subchief, became a friend of the whites.

Forgive & Forget