Media Stories on the Sioux Name

[Goon]

Does anyone know why the Hawaii Warriors aren't on the list of shame?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What about the Merrimack Warriors? They also have a native as their monkier/logo.

[PCM]

What about the Merrimack Warriors? They also have a native as their monkier/logo.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not any more. They changed it a year or two ago to a knight's head.

Edited September 5, 2005 by PCM

[HockeyMom]

NCAA logic

Isn't that an oxymoron?

[jimdahl]

A contrarian viewpoint from USCHO:

The scrap heap of history

If you're going to make a bold, progressive move, and God knows the NCAA needs to make more of those, then don't back right down in the face of resistance. Send Chief Osceola, the "Fighting Sioux" and the rest to the scrap heap of history where they belong, right next to Little Black Sambo, minstrel shows, and other racist symbols and imagery that, gradually over time, we've figured out are just plain wrong.

[CoteauRinkRat]

A contrarian viewpoint from USCHO:

The scrap heap of history

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Very very interesting. I just want to know if and when the PC crowd will ever be satisfied.

[Goon]

Not any more. They changed it a year or two ago to a knight's head.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Someone needs to tell Division2Football because they had the logo of a chief still next to Merrimack name. By the way the Uof Mass Lowell Riverhawks used to be the chiefs before we were hit with all of this P.C. BS. Talk about a cool uniform.

[ScottM]

I was watching the Seminoles barely beat the Hurricanes last night on national TV, and listened to "The Chant" (supposedly sacred to some Indians), watched the crowd do "The Tomahawk Chop" en masse and saw the 'Noles logo and "The Rider" and heard their name at nearly every turn, and had to wonder if the NC$$ really appreciated how much they've humiliated themselves the past few weeks. "Abusive" or "hostile" indeed.

[YaneA]

Scott--

We were having storm warnings here that interrupted the game. I wanted to see what changes, if any, were made to Chief Osceola's ritual but it was more important to keep the region informed about the weather. Can you describe the "Chief's" pre-game performance?

[ScottM]

Unfortunately, I missed the opening stuff, but ABC continuously flashed back to "Chief Osceola", some white kid in this case, when it was running promos of the game, as well as at the end. Therefore, I suspect the pre-game ritual has not changed a whit. As well, it was pretty amusing to watch the students doing "the Chant" while talking to their friends or on a cell phone.

[YaneA]

I thought I'd read somewhere that the plan was for Chief Osceola to hand off the flaming spear to a "real Indian" who would then plant it midfield.

[KnowtheFacts]

Having paid dearly to save what is left of their cultures, religions and languages, they want to control how they are used and passed on. Understandably, they resent how lightly colleges appropriate their cultures for entertainment at sports events and it is particularly hurtful that this happens in higher education. The United States Commission on Civil Rights pointed this out in April 2001 when it urged non-Native colleges to retire American Indian imagery and names in sports.

Im sure y'all find some thing against this article, but maybe somebody here will read and it will finally sink in....

[PCM]

Im sure y'all find some thing against this article, but maybe somebody here will read and it will finally sink in....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I posted a link to that article some weeks ago. I found the final reader comment posted beneath the article quite interesting:

I have Native American blood running through my veins, I DO get it. We

[MafiaMan]

Having paid dearly to save what is left of their cultures, religions and languages, they want to control how they are used and passed on. Understandably, they resent how lightly colleges appropriate their cultures for entertainment at sports events and it is particularly hurtful that this happens in higher education. The United States Commission on Civil Rights pointed this out in April 2001 when it urged non-Native colleges to retire American Indian imagery and names in sports.

Im sure y'all find some thing against this article, but maybe somebody here will read and it will finally sink in....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I love how the Commission urges non-Native colleges to "retire" such imagery, yet KnowtheFacts and GrahamKracker can't answer one simple question: If it's racist for the U of North Dakota to use it, why is it acceptable for American Indian schools to use names like Warriors, Chiefs, Sioux, and Indians? I've got spare time...feel free to give me an answer.

[Goon]

I was watching the Seminoles barely beat the Hurricanes last night on national TV, and listened to "The Chant" (supposedly sacred to some Indians), watched the crowd do "The Tomahawk Chop" en masse and saw the 'Noles logo and "The Rider" and heard their name at nearly every turn, and had to wonder if the NC$$ really appreciated how much they've humiliated themselves the past few weeks. "Abusive" or "hostile" indeed. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hypicritical. UND does none of these things. I see grounds for a law suit if UND loses its appeal. In fact I have been assured by someone in the know that UND will sue if it loses its suit.

[KnowtheFacts]

[Diggler]

not true, I have seen the Chop LIVE with my own eyes at a UND/St. Cloud game.  You must have missed that one.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How many people were doing it? I don't doubt it happened, but it certainly isn't a sanctioned thing by the University like it is at FSU. Watching the FSU-Miami game last night, FSU had a graphic telling people to do it.

[KnowtheFacts]

I posted a link to that article some weeks ago. I found the final reader comment posted beneath the article quite interesting:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

sorry, must have missed that one.. but if you are posting from the replies section, then I must ensure equal coverage of commentary:

Here we have a very thoughtful article on the impact and significance of mascots for the peoples the mascots symbolize and the comments, I

[KnowtheFacts]

I love how the Commission urges non-Native colleges to "retire" such imagery, yet KnowtheFacts and GrahamKracker can't answer one simple question:  If it's racist for the U of North Dakota to use it, why is it acceptable for American Indian schools to use names like Warriors, Chiefs, Sioux, and Indians?  I've got spare time...feel free to give me an answer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well Ive been thinking about this one. Because we have answered it several times. It is my impression that you want a different answer.

American Indian Schools are composed of......indians!! They can portray themselves how they want-some do a fine job, maybe some do not, and some have changed their names as well. Plus the fact that many of these students are actually aware of their culture.... That whole prarie knights casino pic someone keeps putting up: Well it is different when a Sioux portrays themself as Sioux. It is something else entirely when a predominantly white college whose walls lay within territory that was forcibly and unlawfully taken brag about honoring Sioux by wearing a caricature of an indian head with feathers stuck to his cheek on his or her shirt while wearing a green wig and SIOUX plastered across their butt.

That whole right to self-portrayal thing.... but you dont like this answer....

(Im starting to think that the Sioux nation should have the final say on all american indian mascots and logos that caricaturize Sioux dress and traditions)

At UND there is mostly white students and administration who simply call themselves "Sioux" but are NOT. (BTW Most of the Indian programs on this campus, while touted by Kupchella, are opposed to the "Fighting Sioux" nickname, but in spite of this do a wonderful job supporting American Indian students.)

Like some say: "Im norwegian and I dont have a problem with the Vikings..." Well thats because it is something that white, (mostly norwegians regionally) named themselves. And if they dont have a problem portraying themselves as fat pale white men with yellow braids and pointy hats then thats their own choice. Same with the Irish. If they dont mind perpetuating the idea that all Irish are drunken redheaded leprechauns then so be it. Many Indians do mind the stereotypes. As a group they all have been dealing with the problem of misrepresentation and caricaturization by white people since the first white man walked on Americas soil.

If we really want to honor Native Americans we would honor the treaties US made. We would honor the requests to not use "Fighting Sioux". There are better ways to honor a race of people than in a hockey arena or on a football field.

[The Sicatoka]

(Im starting to think that the Sioux nation should have the final say on all american indian mascots and logos that caricaturize Sioux dress and traditions)

So only Democrats could tell us about Mr. Clinton and only Republicans could tell us about Mr. Bush.

George Orwell would be so proud.

[HockeyMom]

Well it is different when a Sioux portrays themself as Sioux. 

Why is it different? Is the statue honoring Sitting Bull outside of Engelstad Arena disrespectful just because it was erected/funded by a white man? That's judging someone by the color of their skin. Isn't that what were not supposed to be doing?

That whole right to self-portrayal thing.... but you dont like this answer....

(Im starting to think that the Sioux nation should have the final say on all american indian mascots and logos that caricaturize Sioux dress and traditions)

Ben Brien's artwork is not a caracature, it's a work of art. I was once eating out in Grand Forks with my daughter, who was wearing her Sioux hockey jersey. Our waitress was Native American and said that she liked my daughter's jersey. I told her that I thought that logo was absolutely breathtaking, to which she agreed. She also told me that Ben was a member of her tribe and the tribe was so proud that he had created the logo for UND.

At UND there is mostly white students and administration who simply call themselves "Sioux" but are NOT. (BTW Most of the Indian programs on this campus, while touted by Kupchella, are opposed to the "Fighting Sioux" nickname, but in spite of this do a wonderful job supporting American Indian students.)

Is there something wrong with ethnocentrism? I'm proud that I went to UND, I'm proud that it's part of my past. I consider myself Fighting Sioux.

  We would honor the requests to not use "Fighting Sioux".  There are better ways to honor a race of people than in a hockey arena or on a football field.

The majority of Native Americans do not oppose the use of nicknames by sports teams.

[KnowtheFacts]

[PCM]

WELL the Majority of SIOUX *DO* oppose the use of the "fighting sioux" nickname and logo and that is what we're talking about here. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How do you know? About a week ago, every tribal council in North Dakota opposed the use of the Fighting Sioux nickname and logo. You and GK were all giddy about that. Then the Turtle Mountain Chippewa changed their minds and suddenly their opinions no longer counted. The Spirit Lake Sioux went from supporting UND to opposing UND to now not being sure what stance to take. How can you be so sure about how many Sioux oppose UND's use of the Fighting Sioux nickname and logo?

[KnowtheFacts]

So only Democrats could tell us about Mr. Clinton and only Republicans could tell us about Mr. Bush.

George Orwell would be so proud.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not an accurate comparison. Maybe only Norwegians can paint an accurate picture of Norwegian History. Maybe the Jews have a better idea of what happened during the holocaust. Maybe what the Nazis told us wasnt exactly the whole truth?? Damn, they are still denying that! Maybe how Hitler got his ideology across was by getting people to believe something about another race of people without any input from them???

Maybe Orwell would be proud. Cuz if you read the book (1984 I presume) you would know that the "Inner Party" is always making up information about who is at war with who and never lets their people find out the truth (because they are constantly re-writing history via the ironically named "Ministry of Truth") -

"Who controls the past, controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.'"

Maybe if they let the other side have a voice then the people wouldn't be so damn brainwashed!

[KnowtheFacts]

[Diggler]

Maybe UND should change their name to the Fighting Winston Smith's.