Media Stories on the Sioux Name

[dagies]

I'm sending him an e-mail, too.

The moral superiority of universities with cartoon mascots is amazing to behold.

I sent one too. I just asked when he will be urging the city of Sioux Falls (and his paper) to change their derogatory name. And I asked if it was less derogatory if SIOUX was used over a casino.

[PCM]

You say it wasn't the point. Then why was it included?

Because one of the major objections is that Chief Illiniwek, as he currently exists, is a white portraying an Indian.

Look, I'm not saying that I object to the Chief. The point was to show that Nick Coleman proclaimed Illinois honorable and decent for getting rid of a symbol that UND doesn't have while holding on to a nickname that's very similar to UND's. Right now, the only difference between the two schools is that UND has an Indian logo it uses while Illinois has one it doesn't use. The gap between them isn't as great as Coleman claims.

My interest here is merely historical accuracy.

My blog wasn't about a historical perspective. It referred to Chief Illiniwek as he is now, which was 100 percent accurate.

[CDog]

Big Stu's # at the SIOUX falls Argus Leader is 605-977-3922....I called and left him a respectful message.

[sioux7>5]

Beautifully well done. Thanks, PCM.

Great work as always PCM

[PCM]

The main thrust of his article- that the Sioux name is likely to be a detriment to UND during a D-I move- right or wrong- is correct.

And that's a valid point, which has been discussed here and brought up in UND's DI committee meetings. I think the logic is a bit flawed at this point, however, because the list of DI schools that will play UND absolutely dwarfs the list of schools that won't.

[The Sicatoka]

And that's a valid point, which has been discussed here and brought up in UND's DI committee meetings. I think the logic is a bit flawed at this point, however, because the list of DI schools that will play UND absolutely dwarfs the list of schools that won't.

I've said it before:

You'll know the very instant the "Fighting Sioux" moniker is a net negative to UND. And when that happens it'll change.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

Because one of the major objections is that Chief Illiniwek, as he currently exists, is a white portraying an Indian.

Yep, that's an objection. But IMHO the same people would have objected if we had a female Latino or African-American portraying Chief this year. That wouldn't make the protestors feel better, nor would it matter to the NCAA. Their objections are not to the idea that he's white, nor to the idea that he's male.

They object to the fact that he exists at all; not to Chief "as he currently exists".

I personally believe that if we had a full-blooded Native American from a tribe that traced its roots to the Illiniwek Confederation, in fully authentic regalia, appearing in a manner ok'd by tribal elders there would still be people protesting. Just as I believe that there are those who object to the idea of Chief Osceola despite his okay from the Seminole Tribe. IMHO, those same people will still be mad even if next year Osceola is a full-blooded Seminole wearing regalia that belonged to his (or her) great great grandfather (or grandmother), riding a horse who was born on Seminole tribal land and carrying a flaming spear that was lit by the sun as it shone on Seminole tribal land. If and when Osceola is eliminated, he'll be gone no matter who was riding Renegade the day before.

My blog wasn't about a historical perspective. It referred to Chief Illiniwek as he is now, which was 100 percent accurate.

I agree: saying that in 2006-07 Chief is a white male is accurate. And I'll stand by what I said: the "idea" of Chief was eliminated last Friday, and it would have been eliminated whether Chief was currently embodied by a white male or a non-white female. If Chief had been a Latino for 80 years and a white for this last one, he still would have been gone. The fact that he currently is a white male does not matter. And it isn't worthy of inclusion.

And I'm done on this subject.

[GeauxSioux]

No more war dances for Native American mascot

Only a small minority of Native Americans is shown by polls to oppose Indian nicknames in sports. The campaign against them gained momentum only when the NCAA, which can hardly cope with policing athlete misconduct and illegal payments in college sports, crusaded against dozens of colleges in the name of political correctness. The NCAA, under Myles Brand's presidency, labeled Chief Illiniwek one of the "hostile and abusive racial/ethnic/national origin mascots."

The NCAA originally demanded that the University of Illinois not only dump the Chief but also drop the Fighting Illini nickname. Would Brand next demand that the states of Illinois and Indiana change their names (sticky for the NCAA, which is headquartered in Indianapolis)? The NCAA backed away from its ban on the Fighting Illini, but not on Chief Illiniwek.

Other schools — such as the University of North Dakota trying to remain the Fighting Sioux — have fought a losing battle.

The battle isn't over yet.

[ScottM]

Other schools

[Riverman]

And I'm done on this subject.

I have a question can U of Ill still use a logo?

Chief Logo

[Hawkster]

The main thrust of his article- that the Sioux name is likely to be a detriment to UND during a D-I move- right or wrong- is correct.

It's too the point I am so tired of this name thing, I just wish the whole thing would just go away. There is no question the publicity isn't doing us any good. Would it really kill us to go to something nuetral and be done? Dickinson State changed their name as I recall and no one even remembers that any more. I know it's not what a lot of people want to hear, but sometimes the truth hurts. Besides, I want to beat the hell out of Minnesota and Wisconsin in something besides hockey.

[Chewey]

It's too the point I am so tired of this name thing, I just wish the whole thing would just go away. There is no question the publicity isn't doing us any good. Would it really kill us to go to something nuetral and be done? Dickinson State changed their name as I recall and no one even remembers that any more. I know it's not what a lot of people want to hear, but sometimes the truth hurts. Besides, I want to beat the hell out of Minnesota and Wisconsin in something besides hockey.

Actually, I believe that they were known as the "savages." Their nickname now is stupid. What in the hell is a BlueHawk? Are teams going to have all of these fictitious names that one like Brand would have thought up during one of many an acid trip in the late 60's early 70's? BlueHawk, RedHawk, BrownHawk, GreenHawk, YellowHawk, etc. The "whole thing" never had to be addressed but the NC00 stuck its nose in where it did not belong. What you should be sick of is the conduct of the NC00 rather than UND's right, or the right of any autonomous university, to fight against such overt and overbearing racism. Any publicity is good for UND as the masses agree with it. The only "negative" publicity is in the yellowed fish wraps spewed forth by the PC groups. The PC loons are not used to being opposed. Then, when they are opposed they complain that those whom they are victimizing should just go away or some other such nonsense. I for one hope that UND has the common sense to take the matter to trial, get a positive verdict and proceed with solid legal precedent. As to the NC00, it needs to be broken up by the government into smaller athletic organizations.

[GeauxSioux]

Letter of the day: Nick Coleman should give UND a rest

The University of North Dakota doesn't have a mascot, so I am confused as to how Chief Illiniwek relates to UND (Nick Coleman column, Feb. 21). The university is honoring its own past, as well as the Sioux nation, by continuing to use the nickname.

[GeauxSioux]

Illiniwek isn't only offensive mascot

Now that the NCAA has finally had its way, it's time for all minorities to take a stand against the insensitivity brought on by mascots and nicknames.

If the University of Illinois can't have Chief Illiniwek, Notre Dame should retire the leprechaun and Texas should put Bevo out to pasture.

Certainly, Georgia must allow its bulldog to beg for treats instead of being paraded around a football field and Air Force needs to let the poor falcon fly off into the wild blue yonder.

While the University of Illinois finally bowed to pressure and has banned Chief Illiniwek, a tradition at the Champaign-based school for nearly a century, the same group of NCAA characters has given its okeydokey to Seminoles (Florida State), Chippewas (Central Michigan), Choctaws (Mississippi State) and Sioux (University of North Dakota).

Huh?

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

I have a question can U of Ill still use a logo?

That's still up in the air. Technically, the NCAA has not (yet) said that we cannot use the logo. But of course, that's just a matter of time. And since the Board of Trustees rolled over like a trained beagle on Illiniwek himself, they'll undoubtly voluntarily surrender the use of the logo at some time in the future; as soon as the professional whiners finish their parties and get their second wind the complaints will start about the logo, the name, the music....

What will happen with the logo is a bigger question. It moves a lot of merchandise and our wonderful administrators are just as money-hungry as they are cowardly. Here's an article on some of the thoughts currently being considered:

http://www.pantagraph.com/articles/2007/02...9b861136620.txt

And one more: this one mentions one of the newest of the whining groups:

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/265981,...chief21.article

[Chewey]

That's still up in the air. Technically, the NCAA has not (yet) said that we cannot use the logo. But of course, that's just a matter of time. And since the Board of Trustees rolled over like a trained beagle on Illiniwek himself, they'll undoubtly voluntarily surrender the use of the logo at some time in the future; as soon as the professional whiners finish their parties and get their second wind the complaints will start about the logo, the name, the music....

What will happen with the logo is a bigger question. It moves a lot of merchandise and our wonderful administrators are just as money-hungry as they are cowardly. Here's an article on some of the thoughts currently being considered:

http://www.pantagraph.com/articles/2007/02...9b861136620.txt

And one more: this one mentions one of the newest of the whining groups:

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/265981,...chief21.article

I have no doubt that the admin weenies will capitulate and retire it, unless the proceeds benefit only the whining groups and perhaps prop up a casino or two. Asinine.

[Fetch]

http://www.argusleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...1131/COLUMNISTS another writer that does no research

[82SiouxGuy]

http://www.argusleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...1131/COLUMNISTS another writer that does no research

This was mentioned on the last page, about here.

[Sioux-cia]

I was looking for a picture of "Sammy Sioux" (didn't find one) and ran across this article.

http://www.courttv.com/archive/trials/wahoo/mascotchart.html

[PCM]

This is what I sent to Stu Whitney in response to his Feb. 23 column in the Sioux Falls Argus-Leader. It's probably too long to be published, but I had to unload.

Dear Mr. Whitney,

I have a dream that one day, a university's value to American Indians will be judged on the educational opportunities it provides them and the lasting, measurable good it accomplishes for the Native American community, not by what it calls its athletic teams.

The NCAA was wrong to slap the "hostile and abusive" label on the University of North Dakota without ever visiting the campus to determine whether there was any truth to the charge. Accepting such a verdict without question does a disservice to the state's citizens, as well as the university

[Chewey]

This is what I sent to Stu Whitney in response to his Feb. 23 column in the Sioux Falls Argus-Leader. It's probably too long to be published, but I had to unload.

[Sioux-cia]

You're no pseudo reporter, PCM, you're the real deal. Well, said my friend!!

[ScottM]

Damn Pat, that's some nice writin' there ...

[GeauxSioux]

Great response PCM. I checked the Argus Leader this morning and didn't see it, but it would be a little hard to get in that quick. I'm just hoping that it gets in.

[Trunk Monkey]

Excellent work PCM. I really hope that it is published.